11/9 Magic ~ Thoughts and ideas

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Hello and welcome to the Lantus tight regulation forum!

Wow you have had a rough time of it recently.. sorry to hear that he had a hypo - they are so scary but its good that you both came through it safely. Plus you have learned some stuff and it has brought you here to us! :)

First can you confirm what you are feeding him? I suspect Turkey gravy lovers fancy feast is high carb (all the other gravy lovers are) which might be keeping his numbers high - check it out here http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf.You want to keep carbs under 10%. And no high carb treats at all.. Food can be the difference between being on and off insulin.

Also he isnt getting into the dry is he? As long as he gets high carb food we will be feeding the diabetes and it will make it difficult, if not impossible for him to go OTJ. It is also good to take your other cat off it too.. heres is a link on how. http://www.catinfo.org

Lastly how is he doing generally? I do think his numbers are high for a cat not on insulin but some cats do naturally sit at higher levels. So you need to consider other things asides the food mentioned above - how is his drinking and peeing habits? is he drinking a lot? Is he losing weight? (its worth weighing them every couple of weeks) How is his energy levels? A good way to tell too is to measure his urine sugar. If there is sugar in his pee then he has reached the renal threshold which means his kidneys have started dumping sugar into his pee to get rid of it. This can damage his organs over time.

let us know!
Wendy
 
What a terrifying experience you've had.

Wendy's point is well taken -- the Gravy Lover's varieties of Fancy Feast are around the 20% carb level. This is high carb food. It would be worthwhile to see what happens if you stick with feeding Magic Fancy Feast Classics. It's hard to know what may happen with Magic's numbers once you eliminate the high carb food. Right now, Magic's numbers are largely outside of the normal BG range but not by much. I'd get rid of the Gravy Lovers and keep testing for the next 24 - 48 hours and see what happens.
 
He's eating the FF Classics now. I went back to the store a couple days ago armed with Dr Lisa's list and bought things that are low on the carbs. He loves the Gravy Lovers but I only got a can of it and a couple other things to get him eating again. I was more worried about getting him to eat at all so I bought him a few of his favorite things.
I'm trying to note on the SS what he's eating. He's urinating normally, seems to be drinking enough water but not guzzling like he did when he was diagnosed, acting his typical self and doing well.
When he was first dx, he was about 20 lbs. He's down to 16.4 and is maintaining that weight. Obviously he's getting enough to eat or he'd be whining like crazy, being crabby and making a nuisance of himself. Instead he's back to tormenting the other cat.
The dry is totally out of his reach at this point, too. I've been feeding them in different rooms and keeping the food totally separated from them both. Eventually, I will try and get the other cat off the dry but right now my focus is on Magic...
I will be going to the drug store this afternoon and will get some ketone sticks to check his urine. I would venture to guess that since he's not taking never-ending pees like he used to that things are functioning as well as can be expected.
When he was diagnosed, he seemed very insulin resistant. That's how he ended up at 4 units twice a day. His numbers were always high when the vet tested them.
Hopefully that answered everyone's questions??
BTW today's test times are off because I slept in. I finally had a full night sleep since this whole thing. He woke me up prodding at me with his foot, which isn't typical for him. I've been testing using this same foot, so I think he was trying to tell me time to get my arse out of bed and test him. He's so chilled out about it, but then he's my zen cat....
 
Ok cool thanks so maybe food isnt causing the higher BG then. There is no way he can sneak the dry ..right?

See if you can get the urine sticks that test both ketones AND urine glucose. (I get keto -diastix in canada) By testing his pee we can see if his sugars are high enough to worry about - If there is sugar in his pee then he has reached the renal threshold which means his kidneys have started dumping sugar into his pee to get rid of it. This can damage his organs over time.

Its good that he is peeing normally - what about his other behaviours.. is he drinking a lot? How is his energy?
 
I'm curious to know how often you're feeding, as well? From the spreadsheet it looks like twice a day? It will help his little pancreas if you can feed smaller meals throughout the day. I know that can be hard - I work 40hrs a week. I often leave out some frozen canned food when I leave. It thaws out and provides a snack while I'm gone. If I'm out for a full day I use an auto feeder. Good to see Magic in safer numbers!
 
Lisa:

If numbers are not in a normal range, it may be time to consider re-starting insulin. I would not go with a big dose, though. Sometimes, after a hypoglycemic even, a cat's pancreas get "shocked" into activity. If you start, I'd be thinking about a small dose -- not more than 0.5u.
 
Ok to answer many questions...

He's not sneaking any dry at all.
I've been opening a full can of Fancy Feast and he's free to graze on it. It's put up where the other cat can't get to it. The other cat gets fed in my daughter's room and Magic can't get through the pet door.. he's too fat! The other cat can get the the canned but she hates it. I don't work so I can set out food for him more often, in smaller amounts if that would help.
He's drinking normally. His observed behaviors are normal. His energy is great and he's fighting with the other cat again (which is one of his hobbies I think...lol)
I forgot that I donated money to a friend who is helping people do cleanup from Sandy so I don't have funds to get any ketostix til Friday.
Would I be better to do a curve on him tomorrow? Would that be more realistic? He's cool with testing but I don't expect anything less from my Zencat...
 
I don't think you need to do a curve since he isn't on insulin yet. The curve is really to evaluate the insulins action, duration, peak and trough. And since he isn't on it, you won't see that curve. However the checks you are doing are useful to see how he is doing and I would keep doing one or two times a day for now till you can check his urine.

You say he is too fat to fit through the door. Would you say he is overweight? That will help with deciding a dose IF he needs to go back on insulin. However at this point I am not sure he does. His BG seems pretty steady and it doesn't sound like he has any symptoms.. My vet told me (sienne may disagree and want him on a small dose) that he is happy with my cats being under 200 on insulin, and magic is generally under that without it.

Lets see what the others say.

Can't wait to see his urine glucose numbers though!
 
Lisa --

For many of us, seeing a cat who's numbers are falling outside of the normal range (i.e, 50 - 120), would be an indication to start insulin. Many vets would wait until a cat's BG was reliably above 200. Most of us want to keep our cat's numbers below renal threshold and wouldn't wait until numbers get too high.

IMHO, I think you have two options. The first would be to start insulin. I would definitely start at a low dose -- 0.25 or 0.5u -- and monitor carefully.

The second alternative would be to feed small meals several times a day and see if the food helps to lower Magic's BG numbers. If a cat's pancreas is working, food will cause the pancreas to produce insulin which, in turn, will lower BG numbers.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
You say he is too fat to fit through the door. Would you say he is overweight? T
Can't wait to see his urine glucose numbers though!
Click to expand...

He's a large male Applehead Siamese. From what I can tell from a quick google check, his weight should be 12-15 lbs. He is currently 16.4 but was 20 when he was diagnosed 02/11. He has slimmed down quite a bit and is still over recommended weight but he isn't thick by any means. The other cat is about 10 lbs and although is also an applehead, her head is much smaller. They say as long as they can get their heads through somewhere, then they can get their bodies through. We made the cat door so she could get in but he couldn't. If he loses more weight and can start getting into my daughter's room then we will have to revisit the cat door idea...
The whole reason we keep him out of her room is that he will go into her room at night and just sit there and do his loudest "MRROWS" possible, just to annoy the other cat. He is "tolerant" of Rox... barely. I know he's back to normal because he's back to chasing her around and nipping at her. He was the only cat for over half his life and the existence of Roxy aka SpEd - short for Special Ed - just irritates the heck out of him. Before we moved here last December, we had a third kitty who was between both their ages. She would play Mama cat to both of them. He again was tolerant... barely. When we became a "blended family" and moved in with my fiance' last December he demanded that one cat had to go. I had been living with him for a couple months and Magic was always with me due to his need of insulin. Brian became very attached to him. My daughter's cat was allowed to make the move based on the fact that when she moves out, Roxy goes with with her. Brian thinks that she will never move out (she turns 25 on the 24th)... In reality she was given 36 months from the time we all moved in together to get her degree done, find a decent job and move out. She can't wait to get out on her own or so she says...
The middle kitty had been a rescue to begin with and really needed to be in a single cat household. I was able to successfully re-home her with friends of ours. KiKi is a cuddler and the little girl she now lives with wanted a cuddle cat. She crawls under the covers at bedtime and sleeps with Leah all night long. It's a match made in heaven!
I was married to her father for 23 years and with him 26. He was my high school sweetheart. When our marriage finally totally fell apart, I kicked him out as he was cheating on me. He moved in with this chick, the daughter of a close family friend, and her 4 kids aged 5-16. They married this past February. His new wife never once offered Kate a place to live nor really includes her in any of their "family" events. She stayed with me on the condition of getting her education finished and getting out of her own. I want to make a new life with my fiance and feel that I am being more than reasonable with her. I gave my all to my marriage and raising my daughter, putting myself last for a very long time. Now it's my turn to put myself first. Well, first after Mags... LOL
Good lord, I didn't realise I wrote a book..... I tend to prattle on sometimes.... :oops:
 
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