11/8 Chuck Norris new-ish to board, not sure what to do about BGs and insulin

Johann_marcel

Johann_marcel

Member Since 2019
Hi there,
I've been reading the board a lot and learning a lot, but I only just now posted an introduction in the other forum. My Chuckie is on Lantus and I am really not sure what to do about his dose. In October, it seemed like he was trying to go into remission, so his vet (who I have a great relationship with), advised to try 1/2 unit of Lantus once daily for a bit then 1/2 unit every other day, when his BG was over 150 on our alphatrak for his pre-shot test. Well, it was hard even following that advice because Chuckie's numbers were under 150 often. Now, Chuck is getting these hairballs recently. We are trying to troubleshoot this (adding miralax which seemed to have help some, I ordered EZegg supplement from Foodfurlife and am currently waiting on its delivery).

Chuckie lives with my bf, who works a tough, physical job and long days, so he doesn't always get the spot checks that we should be getting, but he always gets the "pre-shot" values. I see them on the weekends. Chuck is due for a curve this weekend (Sunday), so we will be getting more values and getting some spot checks tomorrow. In a month, we should all be living under the same roof, too.

We are just kinda confused, scratching our heads and wondering how to handle this. Chuckie is very playful, no pu/pd, manageable appetite (not ravenous), a perky, happy cat, who is very much loved over at my bf's. His coat is soft and well groomed (my intro goes on about the hairballs). Any suggestions? If I created this thread incorrectly, please let me know (I'm new to posting).

Thanks for listening!
 
May I ask please, where did you copy your spreadsheet from?

It behaves oddly when I open it. I can see it and you have a lot of skipped shots...

Any particular reason why you're using the Alpha Trak? Many of us use human meters and find that the test strips are much more affordable...and last but not least, which protocol are you going to follow? If you've been reading the forums for a while, you'll notice that everyone has a chosen protocol - SLGS or TR - both are explained in the stickies here - Protocols Stickie. After you decide which one, please add it to your signature.

Let's get your SS figured out first. If you haven't gotten it from here, http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ you may want to ask for help from @Marje and Gracie - she'll help you get the data into our version of the SS...

Hope this is helpful on getting you started. :)
 
Hi, thanks for the reply. I did copy it from here but perhaps I copied it incorrectly? I started it back in September when Chuck was first diagnosed and I first joined the board. We chose the alphatrak2 because I purchased it awhile ago and that's what I'm comfortable with, number wise. I thought that was ok, even though I do understand that the protocols here are using human meter numbers. I've seen some posters talk about using AT2 so I didn't think it was an issue.

We would be doing the SLGS protocol, as my bf (whom Chuck lives with) can't test as often as the TR requires.
 
Sure thing! Just add that to your signature so that everyone will know. In my comment above I've tagged Marje - so when she sees the notice she'll take a look at your SS and see what's up with that...it'll make it easier for everyone here to look at it :)
 
Sue and Luci said:
Sure thing! Just add that to your signature so that everyone will know. In my comment above I've tagged Marje - so when she sees the notice she'll take a look at your SS and see what's up with that...it'll make it easier for everyone here to look at it :)
Click to expand...
What are you seeing the SS do, Sue, so I k is. When I open it from my phone, it appears to be just fine. I’d appreciate any details so I can see if I need to troubleshoot. Thank you!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
What are you seeing the SS do, Sue, so I k is. When I open it from my phone, it appears to be just fine. I’d appreciate any details so I can see if I need to troubleshoot. Thank you!
Click to expand...

Hi Marje, Opens it with a black background and a swirling circle in the middle...unlike any other I've opened on my laptop. There's a big green X in the tab that's opened, also unlike others from the forum who all have a little tri colored triangle as the tab marker.

Here's a sample of what I see on Chuck Norris' SS:
upload_2019-11-8_20-4-13.png


here's what another member's looks like (from my view).
upload_2019-11-8_20-4-56.png


Hope this is helpful.
 
The black background happens when I open it through google sheets. If I open it via phone then it looks like everyone else's. I apologize that something may have happened with formatting or I did some incorrectly, but I think the info is readable? If not, if there's a solution please let me know. :)
 
Johann_marcel said:
The black background happens when I open it through google sheets. If I open it via phone then it looks like everyone else's. I apologize that something may have happened with formatting or I did some incorrectly, but I think the info is readable? If not, if there's a solution please let me know. :)
Click to expand...

I believe Marje is looking at it...no worries. It does open - it's just unusual looking from my view. The numbers/comments are most definitely legible.
 
The spreadsheet is just a bit of housekeeping.

I will leave it to people far more experienced than myself to look at your spreadsheet as regards dosing. Norris is giving you fairly decent numbers without insulin, btw. Did you change his diet? and when?
 
We changed it as soon as we got the diagnosis, in September 2019. He was on dry S/O and farmina along with low carb fancy feast.. we just took away the dry and kept him on the LC wet and started just experimenting was the raw and he never missed the dry.

The dry S/O diet was a remnant of him living with me at first, before my bf brought him home to his place.
 
@Sue and Luci - there's a drop down that lets you open the SS in Google Sheets. When I open it on my Mac, it opens with a black background but if I specify to open in Google sheets, it loses the color coding.

So, regarding the content of the SS...

I'm not a big fan of your vet's advice. Shooting once a day is not a good strategy with a depot type of insulin. We typically recommend shooting the same amount twice a day. You may need to shoot less but twice a day means that you have a depot. With once a day dosing, the depot is depleting or it's not stabile and you lose the duration and overlap between cycles which is what makes Lantus such a good insulin.

Another aspect of Lantus is that you will often get a better cycle if you shoot low. The "mantra" with this insulin is, "Shoot low to stay low." Do you think it's possible to work your way down to shooting below 150? We use 150 as a don't shoot and ask for help number when you're first starting out. As you gain more experience, you gain more confidence with shooting progressively lower numbers. That way, you're not skipping so many shots. At this point, while the numbers look good, Chuck really isn't in normal range so he does need a bit of insulin. It may make more sense to lower the dose so you can shoot twice a day.
 
I think that's totally doable. I was just talking to my bf tonight, seeing if he felt comfortable shooting lower than 1/2 unit, if that was suggested. He said yes he would try his best. I've read about the shoot low to stay low, and kinda had it in my head that a tiny dose twice a day might be suggested. I've read a lot about Lantus and the depot and this is why I'm posting , especially now, where I know Chuck still needs insulin help but didn't know how to go about it. My vet, who I do respect and like, gave me this advice and for the first thing it just feels a little weird.

So like, what would then be a no shoot number on the AT2? what smaller dose should be tried? These next two days we have dedicated to Chuckie and his bg needs.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
@Sue and Luci - there's a drop down that lets you open the SS in Google Sheets. When I open it on my Mac, it opens with a black background but if I specify to open in Google sheets, it loses the color coding.

So, regarding the content of the SS...

I'm not a big fan of your vet's advice. Shooting once a day is not a good strategy with a depot type of insulin. We typically recommend shooting the same amount twice a day. You may need to shoot less but twice a day means that you have a depot. With once a day dosing, the depot is depleting or it's not stabile and you lose the duration and overlap between cycles which is what makes Lantus such a good insulin.

Another aspect of Lantus is that you will often get a better cycle if you shoot low. The "mantra" with this insulin is, "Shoot low to stay low." Do you think it's possible to work your way down to shooting below 150? We use 150 as a don't shoot and ask for help number when you're first starting out. As you gain more experience, you gain more confidence with shooting progressively lower numbers. That way, you're not skipping so many shots. At this point, while the numbers look good, Chuck really isn't in normal range so he does need a bit of insulin. It may make more sense to lower the dose so you can shoot twice a day.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I jumped the gun with replying because I was excited. I think we can work our way down a little bit, lower than 150 with a smaller dose twice daily. I guess I am wondering what dose twice daily?
 
Sue and Luci said:
Hi Marje, Opens it with a black background and a swirling circle in the middle...unlike any other I've opened on my laptop. There's a big green X in the tab that's opened, also unlike others from the forum who all have a little tri colored triangle as the tab marker.

Here's a sample of what I see on Chuck Norris' SS:
View attachment 49010

here's what another member's looks like (from my view).
View attachment 49011

Hope this is helpful.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!! That is super helpful. I had my phone on night colors already so everything is black around something and that’s why I didn’t see it. :eek::p:p:woot:

Joann: The issue is the link. As Kel said, it’s not the correct one. Here’s how to get the correct one:
--open the SS in google drive
--upper left corner of SS, click on “file”
--scroll down to “publish to the web” and click on it
--click on “entire document”
--click on “publish”; it will generate a link in the box that ends in pubhtml
--copy the link; come back to FDMB
--under “User ID” click on “Signature” in left column
--highlight where you have “Chuck Norris spreadsheet” and click on the hyperlink above the text box
--delete the link that is in there and paste in the one you copied and click “insert”

Also...If you could please move his SS link to the last line in the signature block, it makes it so much easier for us to see and access quickly. If you have any problems at all, send me a private message by clicking on “Marje and Gracie” to the left and then “start a conversation”.

Welcome to Lantus and Levemir Land!!!!
 
I'm thinking 0.25u. It may take several days to get the depot back in place and then let's see what the numbers look like. You can always increase if the dose is too low.
 
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