11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91/+2 37!/+3 56/+4 60/+5 110
- Thread starter JuJu09
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Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Ok...great. Hang on just one second and let me go back to his SS with the latest numbers.
BRB.
Oh..and here is the link for JuJu's 11/6 Condo.
Ok...great. Hang on just one second and let me go back to his SS with the latest numbers.
BRB.
Oh..and here is the link for JuJu's 11/6 Condo.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
If I'm reading your notes right, he was 226 at +10 and now 161?
Questions
--he's totally off dry?
--do you have supplies and can you be there to test?
--are you going to stay on a 11 a.m./11 p.m. schedule for now?
I'm thinking about a 0.25u shot. Will decide after your response.
If I'm reading your notes right, he was 226 at +10 and now 161?
Questions
--he's totally off dry?
--do you have supplies and can you be there to test?
--are you going to stay on a 11 a.m./11 p.m. schedule for now?
I'm thinking about a 0.25u shot. Will decide after your response.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Thank you. We can work on getting him back to a different schedule although it will take time.
Wendy and I think you should shoot the 0.25u dose again. He's had several skipped shots, you had a big stall and a reduced dose last night and he still dropped big coming into AMPS. He's off dry so that could really change his insulin needs.
It's really important you watch him very closely for signs of DKA and test those ketones. While I'd feel more comfortable if he got 0.5u because of the DKA, we just want him to be safe and the factors above give us a little concern. You could feed totally HC in order to get more insulin in him....that is an option.
Are you comfortable with just shooting 0.25u? If so, go ahead but please get a +1 and +2 to start. I'll be watching for you.
Also....I'll address your question on feeding after we get the insulin in him but generally smaller meals more often is better.
Thank you. We can work on getting him back to a different schedule although it will take time.
Wendy and I think you should shoot the 0.25u dose again. He's had several skipped shots, you had a big stall and a reduced dose last night and he still dropped big coming into AMPS. He's off dry so that could really change his insulin needs.
It's really important you watch him very closely for signs of DKA and test those ketones. While I'd feel more comfortable if he got 0.5u because of the DKA, we just want him to be safe and the factors above give us a little concern. You could feed totally HC in order to get more insulin in him....that is an option.
Are you comfortable with just shooting 0.25u? If so, go ahead but please get a +1 and +2 to start. I'll be watching for you.
Also....I'll address your question on feeding after we get the insulin in him but generally smaller meals more often is better.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Fantastic!!!
Thank you and I'll be back shortly with some info for you on feeding. I have to pay some attention to my little brown girl, Gracie....breffis time
Fantastic!!!
Thank you and I'll be back shortly with some info for you on feeding. I have to pay some attention to my little brown girl, Gracie....breffis time
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
To answer your question above that you posted in yesterday's condo, for an FD kitty, they usually do better with smaller meals given more frequently. In general, it is best to offer some mini meals which are given prior to nadir which can vary by cat but is "typical" to be around +6 for lantus. The reason you want to try and not feed after nadir (unless numbers are lower; when numbers are lower, we might need to feed after nadir), is because it puts the brakes on the duration of the insulin and so you don't get the full benefit of it's action. Think of it like a car coming up to a stop sign. If you race up and then slam on the brakes 50' feet away, you won't make it to the stop sign. But if you take your foot off the accelerator as you approach the stop sign and then glide in, then you'll make it to the stop sign. Food acts like the brake.
With JuJu and his DKA/FHL history, you want to take two extra steps:
--as Julie suggested, add water to his food. I'd be putting 1-2 tsps of water into every single helping of food; fluid is good for him.
--and I think Sandy mentioned, you need to get as many calories in him as you can. He's lost a significant amount of weight. Do you think his ideal weight is 13 lbs? 15 lbs? I know you said you read Dr. Lisa's website so you might have seen this formula for number of calories a kitty should have daily.
[13.6 X ideal weight] + 70 = # of daily calories
So if his ideal weight is 13 lbs, he should be getting 13.6 x 13 = ~177 + 70 = 247 calories/day. For a recovering DKA/FHL kitty, I'd feed more than that. We often say 1.5 the normal amount of calories until he is totally out of the woods, eating well, infection resolved, etc.
The Friskies Poultry Platter pate has 187 calories/5.5 oz can or 34 calories an ounce and is 9% calories from carbs. As an example, if he is eating only that, you should feed him 8+ ounces a day of it. Dr. Lisa's food chart will give you the calories and % calories from carbs of many, many foods.
Question: he's on baytril and amoxi. Did the vets identify the source of infection because when DKA is involved, it is usually because there is infection + not enough insulin + not enough calories/water. Do they know what they are treating or are they just throwing antibiotics at him? If you don't know, I'd ask today while he is at the vet. I'd also clear up the question of the mirtazapine dosing/frequency.
Please let me know any other questions and I want to be sure I've answered your questions on food.
Edited to add: I thought of one other question. When he was in the hospital getting 2u of insulin, do you know what insulin the vet was giving him or his BG? I'd ask for those records because it also helps us. Quite often in DKA situations, the vet will stop the basal insulin (Lantus) and give a quick in/out insulin like Humulin R to get numbers down. Lantus and levemir are not good at yanking numbers down.....they like the slow approach. But it's important with DKA cats to get the BG down and to do that, the faster acting insulins like R can be used every 4-6 hours because they are in and out that quickly. They do not have a depot like the Ls.
Why is it important for us to know? If the vets kept giving Lantus all along, then some of what he's got going on in numbers could be a little depot. But with the number of skipped shots an lowered doses, it would likely be minuscule. However, a higher dose of Lantus then the cat needs can affect up to six subsequent cycles. Toss the dry food issue in there and it's just another variable to consider.
Thank you!
To answer your question above that you posted in yesterday's condo, for an FD kitty, they usually do better with smaller meals given more frequently. In general, it is best to offer some mini meals which are given prior to nadir which can vary by cat but is "typical" to be around +6 for lantus. The reason you want to try and not feed after nadir (unless numbers are lower; when numbers are lower, we might need to feed after nadir), is because it puts the brakes on the duration of the insulin and so you don't get the full benefit of it's action. Think of it like a car coming up to a stop sign. If you race up and then slam on the brakes 50' feet away, you won't make it to the stop sign. But if you take your foot off the accelerator as you approach the stop sign and then glide in, then you'll make it to the stop sign. Food acts like the brake.
With JuJu and his DKA/FHL history, you want to take two extra steps:
--as Julie suggested, add water to his food. I'd be putting 1-2 tsps of water into every single helping of food; fluid is good for him.
--and I think Sandy mentioned, you need to get as many calories in him as you can. He's lost a significant amount of weight. Do you think his ideal weight is 13 lbs? 15 lbs? I know you said you read Dr. Lisa's website so you might have seen this formula for number of calories a kitty should have daily.
[13.6 X ideal weight] + 70 = # of daily calories
So if his ideal weight is 13 lbs, he should be getting 13.6 x 13 = ~177 + 70 = 247 calories/day. For a recovering DKA/FHL kitty, I'd feed more than that. We often say 1.5 the normal amount of calories until he is totally out of the woods, eating well, infection resolved, etc.
The Friskies Poultry Platter pate has 187 calories/5.5 oz can or 34 calories an ounce and is 9% calories from carbs. As an example, if he is eating only that, you should feed him 8+ ounces a day of it. Dr. Lisa's food chart will give you the calories and % calories from carbs of many, many foods.
Question: he's on baytril and amoxi. Did the vets identify the source of infection because when DKA is involved, it is usually because there is infection + not enough insulin + not enough calories/water. Do they know what they are treating or are they just throwing antibiotics at him? If you don't know, I'd ask today while he is at the vet. I'd also clear up the question of the mirtazapine dosing/frequency.
Please let me know any other questions and I want to be sure I've answered your questions on food.
Edited to add: I thought of one other question. When he was in the hospital getting 2u of insulin, do you know what insulin the vet was giving him or his BG? I'd ask for those records because it also helps us. Quite often in DKA situations, the vet will stop the basal insulin (Lantus) and give a quick in/out insulin like Humulin R to get numbers down. Lantus and levemir are not good at yanking numbers down.....they like the slow approach. But it's important with DKA cats to get the BG down and to do that, the faster acting insulins like R can be used every 4-6 hours because they are in and out that quickly. They do not have a depot like the Ls.
Why is it important for us to know? If the vets kept giving Lantus all along, then some of what he's got going on in numbers could be a little depot. But with the number of skipped shots an lowered doses, it would likely be minuscule. However, a higher dose of Lantus then the cat needs can affect up to six subsequent cycles. Toss the dry food issue in there and it's just another variable to consider.
Thank you!
tiffmaxee
Very Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Hi. Nice number this morning. I just wanted to say something about mirtazapine. While it works for many cats I didn't have a good experience with it and know others that have dealt with issues. Another drug to ask your vet about is cyproheptadine. It is a human antihistamine that works as an appetite stimulant for many cats and can be dosed up to two times a day. I found with Max when he became inappetent from pancreatitis that just a sliver of cypro got him eating and usually just once a day. It would work within 30 minutes and then last the whole day or even longer. Many vets use it but dose too high. I like it because you have the option of giving it as needed and if there should be any type of reaction it leaves the body faster than mirt. Just something else to ask your vet.
Hi. Nice number this morning. I just wanted to say something about mirtazapine. While it works for many cats I didn't have a good experience with it and know others that have dealt with issues. Another drug to ask your vet about is cyproheptadine. It is a human antihistamine that works as an appetite stimulant for many cats and can be dosed up to two times a day. I found with Max when he became inappetent from pancreatitis that just a sliver of cypro got him eating and usually just once a day. It would work within 30 minutes and then last the whole day or even longer. Many vets use it but dose too high. I like it because you have the option of giving it as needed and if there should be any type of reaction it leaves the body faster than mirt. Just something else to ask your vet.
JuJu09
Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Great analogy, makes sense. I understand the nadir but JuJu hasn't seemed to be displaying one. His numbers are dropping well past 6 hours. That's what has really gotten us confused. We have been getting more confident at shooting and testing but since JuJu isn't displaying a normal curve (nadir at/around +6), we kind of lost our confidence. How do we read the numbers if the pattern is, off? Thankfully we've had FDMB members as our saving grace.
JuJu was eating regularly when we first brought him home. He was just nibbling, though. Since I gave him the Mirt, he has been an eating machine! Thankfully, because I was definitely starting to get worried. He seems to like a snack every 3 hours (or whenever I walk into the kitchen ) or so. I'll try to get him 2 snacks before the nadir (6hr mark). I'm encouraged by his increased appetite.
As far as the antibiotics, no, they never determined an infection. They did say that DKA/FHL usually comes with underlying issues, so it's best to give kitty the antibiotics anyway. They wanted to run more diagnostics (ultra sound/xray/etc) but we asked them to maximize our available funds on aggressive treatment for the DKA and FHL. They may still talk to me today about the possibility of more diagnostics. At this point, Junior's expenses are a little over $5500 over the last two weeks. We are past our limit. Our hope is that his bilirubin checks out good today and his fever is down, then we can transition to a family vet.
Tiff, the Mirt seems to have worked well for JuJu at this point. I will inquire about cypro, though.
Great analogy, makes sense. I understand the nadir but JuJu hasn't seemed to be displaying one. His numbers are dropping well past 6 hours. That's what has really gotten us confused. We have been getting more confident at shooting and testing but since JuJu isn't displaying a normal curve (nadir at/around +6), we kind of lost our confidence. How do we read the numbers if the pattern is, off? Thankfully we've had FDMB members as our saving grace.
JuJu was eating regularly when we first brought him home. He was just nibbling, though. Since I gave him the Mirt, he has been an eating machine! Thankfully, because I was definitely starting to get worried. He seems to like a snack every 3 hours (or whenever I walk into the kitchen
) or so. I'll try to get him 2 snacks before the nadir (6hr mark). I'm encouraged by his increased appetite. As far as the antibiotics, no, they never determined an infection. They did say that DKA/FHL usually comes with underlying issues, so it's best to give kitty the antibiotics anyway. They wanted to run more diagnostics (ultra sound/xray/etc) but we asked them to maximize our available funds on aggressive treatment for the DKA and FHL. They may still talk to me today about the possibility of more diagnostics. At this point, Junior's expenses are a little over $5500 over the last two weeks. We are past our limit. Our hope is that his bilirubin checks out good today and his fever is down, then we can transition to a family vet.
Tiff, the Mirt seems to have worked well for JuJu at this point. I will inquire about cypro, though.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161
Did you get a +1?
Because his dose has been high and the dry food was in the mix and now it's not, he hasn't had a normal curve but he will.
We just need to take it a cycle at a time.
They must have thought some urinary tract issue was occurring because Baytril is a very powerful a/b usually given for kidney infections or Serious UTIs. It's an a/b to be used with caution at the correct dosage.
You might also want to add a probiotic to his food because that many a/bs can have an effect on his gut flora. You can talk to the vet about fortiflora but I like renew life ultimate flora as my cats don't like fortiflora. The renew is dosed at 1/3 capsule twice a day mixed in food. My cats eat it very well in their food.
Did you get a +1?
Because his dose has been high and the dry food was in the mix and now it's not, he hasn't had a normal curve but he will.
We just need to take it a cycle at a time.
They must have thought some urinary tract issue was occurring because Baytril is a very powerful a/b usually given for kidney infections or Serious UTIs. It's an a/b to be used with caution at the correct dosage.
You might also want to add a probiotic to his food because that many a/bs can have an effect on his gut flora. You can talk to the vet about fortiflora but I like renew life ultimate flora as my cats don't like fortiflora. The renew is dosed at 1/3 capsule twice a day mixed in food. My cats eat it very well in their food.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Oops...we cross posted.
I'd give him two tsp of it and retest in 30 mins. He should have a spike...not going down.
Oops...we cross posted.
I'd give him two tsp of it and retest in 30 mins. He should have a spike...not going down.
JuJu09
Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Re:edit
Junior was on an insulin drip (never asked what insulin) until he was ketone negative. They then started giving him Lantus BID. They actually had me pick up his own vile so they didn't have to charge me $40 per injection. He was also eating only kibble at the hospital. I never asked to see a curve but his BGs were constantly over 400/450.
Re:edit
Junior was on an insulin drip (never asked what insulin) until he was ketone negative. They then started giving him Lantus BID. They actually had me pick up his own vile so they didn't have to charge me $40 per injection. He was also eating only kibble at the hospital. I never asked to see a curve but his BGs were constantly over 400/450.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Ok. Thx!
I might add a little gravy to that food...we need to slow him down.
Ok. Thx!
I might add a little gravy to that food...we need to slow him down.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Perfect! I'm sorry I missed it on the list of meds yesterday. I was too focused on the actual meds.
Perfect! I'm sorry I missed it on the list of meds yesterday. I was too focused on the actual meds.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
No kibble. It takes way too long to work.
If you have any HC, please give him 2 tsp gravy, a drop of honey, and retest in 30.
Doing ok?
No kibble. It takes way too long to work.
If you have any HC, please give him 2 tsp gravy, a drop of honey, and retest in 30.
Doing ok?
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Don't freak out. You have food, honey, and testing. You are in control. see you soon.
Don't freak out. You have food, honey, and testing. You are in control. see you soon.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Pls update us.
Pls update us.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
go ahead and rub a little syrup/honey on gums and take the bottle with you...
go ahead and rub a little syrup/honey on gums and take the bottle with you...
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
you made a good choice... especially because this was just the beginning of the cycle.
i would have done the same and i danced this dance with my sugar kitty for over 8 years.
please update when you can...
you made a good choice... especially because this was just the beginning of the cycle.
i would have done the same and i danced this dance with my sugar kitty for over 8 years.
please update when you can...
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Yes...standing by.
Yes...standing by.
JuJu09
Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Doc checked him at about 1:45. They got 77, my meter was 46.
So, he did go up, but I'm concerned it could just be a quick spike from the honey. Doc is about to check him again. He did say Junior looks really good and isn't acting like a Hypo. He has also put on a little weight since Tues.
I gave the doc JuJu's SS. Great to have for personal use but also to share with the vet, especially when trying to get kitty regulated. Thank you guys for encouraging everyone to use the SS.
Doc checked him at about 1:45. They got 77, my meter was 46.
So, he did go up, but I'm concerned it could just be a quick spike from the honey. Doc is about to check him again. He did say Junior looks really good and isn't acting like a Hypo. He has also put on a little weight since Tues.
I gave the doc JuJu's SS. Great to have for personal use but also to share with the vet, especially when trying to get kitty regulated. Thank you guys for encouraging everyone to use the SS.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
:thumbup
you have good reason to think this last test result is a spike from the honey. see what the doc has to say. if i were in your shoes i'd want to see him higher before leaving there.
:thumbup
you have good reason to think this last test result is a spike from the honey. see what the doc has to say. if i were in your shoes i'd want to see him higher before leaving there.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
I would also want some LC food in him ASAP to help keep him up. The LC won't wear off like HC.
I would also want some LC food in him ASAP to help keep him up. The LC won't wear off like HC.
JuJu09
Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
Crisis averted.
The doc said he's encouraged by the way Junior looks and his demeanor. He mentioned that JuJu could be very sensitive to the insulin or doing his best to get OJT. The doc said insulin depot could be causing the extended time until nadir. He seemed a little baffled by the SS because Junior's curves weren't typical, in that he wasn't experience a normal peak time. He suggested that we can do a sort of shot range according to his BG numbers:
250-300 0.5u
150-249 0.25u. Or just go with 0.25 BID and skip if he's still dropping at his is next shot time (12hrs).
<150 no shot
I mentioned your concerns about getting JuJu as much insulin as possible to help fight of a re-occurrence of DKA. He felt that JuJu getting into the high 400s isn't ideal but if it's just for a couple hours over night he shouldn't decline rapidly into DKA. He did suggest, as did a few of you, that I test for ketones daily. I'll have Ava pick up the Ketostix on her way home today.
I asked Dr. Smith (no clue why but I thought his name was funny) about Dr. Polio wanting to test JuJu's bilirubin and he said as long as Junior is eating well, we can wait a few more days and test then, if he shows a decline. Otherwise, JuJu is looking good and they are doing their best to help keep our care cost down. He didn't even charge me for the visit, despite the fact I signed an emergency exam paper ($91) when we first got there.
I forgot to ask about the app stim. Dr. Smith said he was going to email me his suggested dose guidelines. I can ask him about the app stim in an email. Junior is still displaying a great appetite, very encouraging. I did feed him some LC immediately when we got home.
His BG's
AMPS 161 0.25u
+1 91/+1.5 61
+2 37/+2.5 46
+3 56
+4 60
The doc has suggested I skip tonight but I'm certainly open to your suggestions. You guys have been here for me and are very experienced, so I trust your judgment.
In hindsight I may have panicked a bit. It looks like if I stayed calm for another 30 minutes JuJu was going to be fine. Again, I do appreciate everyone's help. Marje, you were right. Don't panic. It wasn't that I didn't trust you, it was I didn't trust myself.
Gonna get something to eat. I'll check back in a bit.
Crisis averted.
The doc said he's encouraged by the way Junior looks and his demeanor. He mentioned that JuJu could be very sensitive to the insulin or doing his best to get OJT. The doc said insulin depot could be causing the extended time until nadir. He seemed a little baffled by the SS because Junior's curves weren't typical, in that he wasn't experience a normal peak time. He suggested that we can do a sort of shot range according to his BG numbers:
250-300 0.5u
150-249 0.25u. Or just go with 0.25 BID and skip if he's still dropping at his is next shot time (12hrs).
<150 no shot
I mentioned your concerns about getting JuJu as much insulin as possible to help fight of a re-occurrence of DKA. He felt that JuJu getting into the high 400s isn't ideal but if it's just for a couple hours over night he shouldn't decline rapidly into DKA. He did suggest, as did a few of you, that I test for ketones daily. I'll have Ava pick up the Ketostix on her way home today.
I asked Dr. Smith (no clue why but I thought his name was funny) about Dr. Polio wanting to test JuJu's bilirubin and he said as long as Junior is eating well, we can wait a few more days and test then, if he shows a decline. Otherwise, JuJu is looking good and they are doing their best to help keep our care cost down. He didn't even charge me for the visit, despite the fact I signed an emergency exam paper ($91) when we first got there.
I forgot to ask about the app stim. Dr. Smith said he was going to email me his suggested dose guidelines. I can ask him about the app stim in an email. Junior is still displaying a great appetite, very encouraging. I did feed him some LC immediately when we got home.
His BG's
AMPS 161 0.25u
+1 91/+1.5 61
+2 37/+2.5 46
+3 56
+4 60
The doc has suggested I skip tonight but I'm certainly open to your suggestions. You guys have been here for me and are very experienced, so I trust your judgment.
In hindsight I may have panicked a bit. It looks like if I stayed calm for another 30 minutes JuJu was going to be fine. Again, I do appreciate everyone's help. Marje, you were right. Don't panic. It wasn't that I didn't trust you, it was I didn't trust myself.
Gonna get something to eat. I'll check back in a bit.
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
None of us would ever second guess a caregiver if they believe the kitty needs to go to the hospital. You are there and you know your kitty. His safety is first and if you feel he needs to see the vet, we are 150% with you. I'm very glad all is well.
We also wonder if JuJu is trying hard to get into remission. That would be a wonderful thing and something we hope for for all of our kitties. I actually don't think JuJu's SS is atypical but we look at so many, many more SSs than most vets....even the specialists. When things have settled down with JuJu, take a stroll through some of the condos and look at SSs and you'll see many kitties with patterns similar to JuJu's at some point.
While we do not like to second guess any vet, lantus does not work well with a sliding scale. It just doesn't. It isn't that kind of insulin because of the depot so I'm surprised the vet would suggest a sliding scale when he seems to know about the depot. Given what JuJu did this morning, I would not shoot more than 0.25u until we can get a better idea of what his depot is doing. I do agree, however, that skipping is probably a good idea for the next shot if he's still dropping into lower numbers or he is below 150 especially since your vet indicated he does not think JuJu will decline rapidly into DKA. I think it is wise to play it by ear and see what he does the rest of the day and where he is at +10/+11.
I really would have liked to see him a little higher at +4 so I would stay on the testing. Karo/HC can take about two hours to wear off so I'd get a +5 and make sure he's still coming up. He didn't get much of a rise between +2.5 and +4 esp considering what you probably gave him in food/gravy.
Enjoy your snack and let's hope the rest of the day is quieter. I'll be around and checking in so please update with a +5 when you can. Thanks, Matt.
None of us would ever second guess a caregiver if they believe the kitty needs to go to the hospital. You are there and you know your kitty. His safety is first and if you feel he needs to see the vet, we are 150% with you. I'm very glad all is well.
We also wonder if JuJu is trying hard to get into remission. That would be a wonderful thing and something we hope for for all of our kitties. I actually don't think JuJu's SS is atypical but we look at so many, many more SSs than most vets....even the specialists. When things have settled down with JuJu, take a stroll through some of the condos and look at SSs and you'll see many kitties with patterns similar to JuJu's at some point.
While we do not like to second guess any vet, lantus does not work well with a sliding scale. It just doesn't. It isn't that kind of insulin because of the depot so I'm surprised the vet would suggest a sliding scale when he seems to know about the depot. Given what JuJu did this morning, I would not shoot more than 0.25u until we can get a better idea of what his depot is doing. I do agree, however, that skipping is probably a good idea for the next shot if he's still dropping into lower numbers or he is below 150 especially since your vet indicated he does not think JuJu will decline rapidly into DKA. I think it is wise to play it by ear and see what he does the rest of the day and where he is at +10/+11.
I really would have liked to see him a little higher at +4 so I would stay on the testing. Karo/HC can take about two hours to wear off so I'd get a +5 and make sure he's still coming up. He didn't get much of a rise between +2.5 and +4 esp considering what you probably gave him in food/gravy.
Enjoy your snack and let's hope the rest of the day is quieter. I'll be around and checking in so please update with a +5 when you can. Thanks, Matt.
JuJu09
Active Member
Re: 11/7 JuJu AMPS 161/+1 91
You know, my eyes were telling me, he's okay. My heart said, get him to the vet!
Sliding scale, thank you! I knew there was a better way to describe that. He honestly did say if it was his kitty he would go with 0.25 BID but was giving me an alternative option. He did say it was great to see that we're (Ava and I) on top of testing and obviously care a lot about JuJu. They did suggest we get a AlphaTrax 2, that's what they use. I told them I don't have a problem paying the higher meter cost but the strips are 3x-4x what I pay for the ReliOn. Even if kitty is well regulated you're still testing 3x a day. That's over $100 a month on the AlphaTrax. Not to mention, Lantus isn't cheap either. If it was a must, sure, but I think now that I a have reference range on the low end, we can make due with the Confirm.
+5 110
I meant to ask how long before high carb/honey wears off. I was thinking he's not necessarily safe yet, but just the fact he went up and I knew we was approaching 100 I felt more, in control.
You know, my eyes were telling me, he's okay. My heart said, get him to the vet!
Sliding scale, thank you! I knew there was a better way to describe that. He honestly did say if it was his kitty he would go with 0.25 BID but was giving me an alternative option. He did say it was great to see that we're (Ava and I) on top of testing and obviously care a lot about JuJu. They did suggest we get a AlphaTrax 2, that's what they use. I told them I don't have a problem paying the higher meter cost but the strips are 3x-4x what I pay for the ReliOn. Even if kitty is well regulated you're still testing 3x a day. That's over $100 a month on the AlphaTrax. Not to mention, Lantus isn't cheap either. If it was a must, sure, but I think now that I a have reference range on the low end, we can make due with the Confirm.
+5 110
I meant to ask how long before high carb/honey wears off. I was thinking he's not necessarily safe yet, but just the fact he went up and I knew we was approaching 100 I felt more, in control.
Much better on the +5. I think he's past the point of the HC/karo wearing off now. You can give him a break for a couple hours.
You are very savvy early on, Matt! The reason most of us don't use the AT is the expense of the meter plus the strips AND because if you have an emergency and need strips and you're almost out, if you use the Relion or another human meter, you can run to Walmart or the pharmacy and get more strips right then. You can't do that with an AT.
We can't always trust our eyes when it comes to our kitties and their BG. I've had Gracie sitting right beside me acting totally fine and tested her because it was "time" and she was in the 20's. :shock: :shock:
Thankfully, she had no symptoms whatsoever and I knew she wasn't there long because I had tested her 30 mins before and she was 66 (and I gave her food for that 66). A trip to the vet was worth it to know he was safe and for your own peace of mind. Priceless.
You are very savvy early on, Matt! The reason most of us don't use the AT is the expense of the meter plus the strips AND because if you have an emergency and need strips and you're almost out, if you use the Relion or another human meter, you can run to Walmart or the pharmacy and get more strips right then. You can't do that with an AT.
We can't always trust our eyes when it comes to our kitties and their BG. I've had Gracie sitting right beside me acting totally fine and tested her because it was "time" and she was in the 20's. :shock: :shock:
Thankfully, she had no symptoms whatsoever and I knew she wasn't there long because I had tested her 30 mins before and she was 66 (and I gave her food for that 66). A trip to the vet was worth it to know he was safe and for your own peace of mind. Priceless.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
happy to hear you're back from the vet's and all is well!
your instincts are good and you've caught on so quickly...
my hat's off to you. :thumbup
your instincts are good and you've caught on so quickly...
my hat's off to you. :thumbup
julie & punkin (ga)
Very Active Member
Matt, wow - i just want to give you kudos for your cool head in how you handled the low numbers today. Well done.
One of the first times I tested punkin I got a 32 - it's a heart-stopper.
I'm glad to see Junior's up over 100 now. Let's see how he is at pmps.
I wouldn't spend the money on another meter - you've got a good one. It's telling you what you need to know, the strips are more reasonable, more available, and for the most part, we "speak" in human glucometer numbers. There are a few people using ATs, mostly in Europe, that post here and we have to do the math to compare to the protocol guidelines.
One of the first times I tested punkin I got a 32 - it's a heart-stopper.
I'm glad to see Junior's up over 100 now. Let's see how he is at pmps.
I wouldn't spend the money on another meter - you've got a good one. It's telling you what you need to know, the strips are more reasonable, more available, and for the most part, we "speak" in human glucometer numbers. There are a few people using ATs, mostly in Europe, that post here and we have to do the math to compare to the protocol guidelines.
JuJu09
Active Member
+7 161
Thank you all for the positive reinforcement. I was really upset with my self when this 1st started because I felt it could be in part due to me being late to react to Junior showing signs of sickness. I told myself that I'm going to be the best cat daddy on the planet so Junior never gets that sick again.
That's when I started doing as much research as possible. I come across a few sites. Catinfo.org really seemed to be a great one stop shop. The FDMB was mentioned several times on that site. That's how I ended up here, with some of the most caring people on the planet.
You all are truly amazing. Sure, I have the want to but you all have the knowledge. I, we, wouldn't be on top of our game without your help. We are truly blessed.
Thank you all for the positive reinforcement. I was really upset with my self when this 1st started because I felt it could be in part due to me being late to react to Junior showing signs of sickness. I told myself that I'm going to be the best cat daddy on the planet so Junior never gets that sick again.
That's when I started doing as much research as possible. I come across a few sites. Catinfo.org really seemed to be a great one stop shop. The FDMB was mentioned several times on that site. That's how I ended up here, with some of the most caring people on the planet.
You all are truly amazing. Sure, I have the want to but you all have the knowledge. I, we, wouldn't be on top of our game without your help. We are truly blessed.
Tiger(GA) and Ruth
Very Active Member
Wow Talk about trial by fire!! :shock: Great job the past 2 days! You and your wife are awesome beans-- Junior is one lucky fella to have you two! Please don't beat yourself up, I did not know my kitty was diabetic first either, heck most of us here had no clue our kitties were diabetic at first! But the important thing is, you found your way to here!! Catinfo was how I found this forum as well!
(You may want to purchase a 2nd Relion meter as a back up, if I ever get a wonky number,I re-test using the back up)
Please don't beat yourself up, I did not know my kitty was diabetic first either, heck most of us here had no clue our kitties were diabetic at first! But the important thing is, you found your way to here!! Catinfo was how I found this forum as well! (You may want to purchase a 2nd Relion meter as a back up, if I ever get a wonky number,I re-test using the back up)
We are just so happy you found us and we love great cat dads!!!
Remember that no concern or question is unimportant. You are doing a great job and JuJu is going to be well because of it. So pat yourself on the back. You deserve it. And Ava, too, because we all know what those 1 a.m. wakeups are like when we'd rather be I-) I-) I-)
I'd probably give him a break until +10. Then we can see where he's headed and make a plan. Are you working tonight?
Remember that no concern or question is unimportant. You are doing a great job and JuJu is going to be well because of it. So pat yourself on the back. You deserve it. And Ava, too, because we all know what those 1 a.m. wakeups are like when we'd rather be I-) I-) I-)
I'd probably give him a break until +10. Then we can see where he's headed and make a plan. Are you working tonight?
Sandy and Black Kitty
Very Active Member
Hi there 
Great job today.
We have a saying around here:
"Better a day too high than an hour too low"
Great instincts.
Great job today.
We have a saying around here:
"Better a day too high than an hour too low"
Great instincts.
Matt
Your +10 is my Gracie's shot time so just post when you get it and one of us will be on shortly. Or maybe more than one of us
Your +10 is my Gracie's shot time so just post when you get it and one of us will be on shortly. Or maybe more than one of us
JuJu09
Active Member
Yes, I am at work. Ava is on the clock with JuJu. Again, we appreciate the encouragement. A few people have mentioned it's best to have a back up meter. I have a ReliOn Prime still in the box. Someone said it's ok, but can be fussy with errors. It's probably better to purchase another Confirm.
Sandy, That saying is spot on!
Ava will have a +10 shortly.
Sandy, That saying is spot on!
Ava will have a +10 shortly.
julie & punkin (ga)
Very Active Member
hi matt!
here are some things to consider about tonight:
- Juju got to 37 with a 0.25u shot, following an 18hr interval. That's a very quick response after a long interval without insulin.
- Your 12 hr interval tonight is at 11pm Florida time. If he has the same kind of response tonight as this morning, that's going to be in the middle of the night for you. Do you have an ER available during the night if it's needed? Can you monitor following an 11pm shot? Another 18 hr interval is a possibility, meaning that you'd be shooting in the morning.
- That background of ketones lurks in the picture, keeping an urgency to the picture.
- When a newly diagnosed cats goes under 50, we reduce the dose. We do look at the previous doses, because of the way Lantus's depot works. The depot size corresponds to the size of the dose and that depot will keep on giving after the dose reduction occurs. We know that some cats might still be affected by a previously higher dose for as many as 6 cycles after the dose is reduced. Typically we don't encourage dose reductions too quickly, but . . . at the same time, that 37 was dramatic, it was fast after the shot was given after a long interval, and it's in a range that we take very seriously.
There is one smaller dose than the 0.25u - 0.1u. You can look at the pictures on the New to the Group? sticky. I'm not sure what syringes you are using. Some syringes have a narrower barrel than others and are easier to draw up this dose. What brand do you have?
Would you look at those pictures and see if you can work at a dose of 0.1u? That is one drop. There are 2 ways to draw up that dose. One way is to draw up 1.0u, point the needle to the ceiling and try to "screw" the plunger and see if you can work out 10 drops. With some practice, some people can succeed at that. You'll have to be able to repeat the process a couple of times until you are confident you can leave 1 drop in the syringe.
Another way to do it is to take your syringe, press the plunger in hard (you're expelling any air) and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into your insulin. Release the plunger and it will draw in a tiny drop. Remove the needle from the insulin and push the plunger to see if a drop comes out.
So . . . there's a weighing of factors going on. Let's look at what your next test shows. Consider what you and Ava want to do.
i see your most recent post that Ava would be shooting. So she'll want to try to figure out that dose.
here are some things to consider about tonight:
- Juju got to 37 with a 0.25u shot, following an 18hr interval. That's a very quick response after a long interval without insulin.
- Your 12 hr interval tonight is at 11pm Florida time. If he has the same kind of response tonight as this morning, that's going to be in the middle of the night for you. Do you have an ER available during the night if it's needed? Can you monitor following an 11pm shot? Another 18 hr interval is a possibility, meaning that you'd be shooting in the morning.
- That background of ketones lurks in the picture, keeping an urgency to the picture.
- When a newly diagnosed cats goes under 50, we reduce the dose. We do look at the previous doses, because of the way Lantus's depot works. The depot size corresponds to the size of the dose and that depot will keep on giving after the dose reduction occurs. We know that some cats might still be affected by a previously higher dose for as many as 6 cycles after the dose is reduced. Typically we don't encourage dose reductions too quickly, but . . . at the same time, that 37 was dramatic, it was fast after the shot was given after a long interval, and it's in a range that we take very seriously.
There is one smaller dose than the 0.25u - 0.1u. You can look at the pictures on the New to the Group? sticky. I'm not sure what syringes you are using. Some syringes have a narrower barrel than others and are easier to draw up this dose. What brand do you have?
Would you look at those pictures and see if you can work at a dose of 0.1u? That is one drop. There are 2 ways to draw up that dose. One way is to draw up 1.0u, point the needle to the ceiling and try to "screw" the plunger and see if you can work out 10 drops. With some practice, some people can succeed at that. You'll have to be able to repeat the process a couple of times until you are confident you can leave 1 drop in the syringe.
Another way to do it is to take your syringe, press the plunger in hard (you're expelling any air) and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into your insulin. Release the plunger and it will draw in a tiny drop. Remove the needle from the insulin and push the plunger to see if a drop comes out.
So . . . there's a weighing of factors going on. Let's look at what your next test shows. Consider what you and Ava want to do.
i see your most recent post that Ava would be shooting. So she'll want to try to figure out that dose.
JuJu09
Active Member
+10 325
Ava says he's acting hungry, too.
If you look at the notes, Junior received a 0.25u dose at +18. He then dropped to 161 AMPS and received another 0.25u dose.
Ava is off for the weekend so she can monitor him throughout the night. I'll be home 3am. I'll have Ava review the link. We use the BD U-100
Ava says he's acting hungry, too.
If you look at the notes, Junior received a 0.25u dose at +18. He then dropped to 161 AMPS and received another 0.25u dose.
Ava is off for the weekend so she can monitor him throughout the night. I'll be home 3am. I'll have Ava review the link. We use the BD U-100
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
here's a picture of 0.1 unit:julie & punkin (ga) said:
actually what julie has described here is considered "some" insulin. here's a picture of "some" insulin:julie & punkin (ga) said:
"some insulin" is just a little bit less than 0.1 unit. some people will eyeball it. others will press the plunger in and while holding the plunger in, insert the needle into their insulin. when the plunger is released it will draw in a tiny drop.
measuring tiny doses can be challenging, but hope this helps a little...
julie & punkin (ga)
Very Active Member
we still have another hour til +12, right?
julie & punkin (ga)
Very Active Member
JuJu09 said:
Hmmm, Matt - I'm confused. Are you saying that he got two 0.25u shots and they were 6 hours apart?
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