11/6 Mugsy AMPS 570

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Just tried again - no luck. Will try again in a while. Still asleep this am and gave him 1u before I realized what I did. Am moving his shots to 8:30. Doing the time change two-step so, what's an extra 1/2 hr? ~O)

PS: Info on Anbesol, etc noted.
 
It looks like you had better luck testing yesterday. That's great.

Is there a reason you are not getting tests during the PM cycle? Without those tests, you're losing half of your data. This is very important since many cats have lower numbers at night.
 
Sienne, if you're asking about after his pm shot, I don't do any then. It's too late, I'm too sleepy, and it's too dark in here. Otherwise, I get what I can - it all depends on how things go (some days go better than others).
 
Lori, He knows less than I do. My friend, Dixie, and I are teaching him.
 
Sally, I'm no great shakes around here and I may be way out of line - but I'm sensing some frustration from the experts here... so the heck with it, I am going to jump in with both feet and come right out and say what is on my mind:

You are just not getting enough BG testing done. In ~3 weeks or so you have but four "pre-shot" BG numbers. You do not have nearly enough BG readings to determine a dose for Mugsy (not me saying that. the experts have said as much, too). It is very worrisome (to me and I suspect to you too?) that if this carries on much longer, it is possibly putting Mugsy at risk. I know you're trying - but you just HAVE to find a way to get over this testing situation. It's really not working the way things are. But when you say "No Luck", luck really has nothing to do with it. We know, and I hope you know, it really IS possible to get a meter-sized sample of blood from a cat - any cat!! - and to do so every time you try to - but you have to persevere, try and try again until you get a result, every time - and not give up until you have that magical BEEP!! You know you CAN do it, at times - you are getting SOME tests done and some numbers. Just not nearly enough times.

I really hate to say it but if you cannot break through this stalemate, then would you please consider trying to find someone, anyone, else to help you?? Whether it's just to help hold him while you test, or to actually do the testing. You just cannot let Mugsy continue to dominate the situation, like this, any longer.

OK - there now I've said it - you may hate me for it I know - and the experts here wil probably think I am "out of order" and being too unkind and too harsh. But I really do believe that someone had to say it so I am.
 
Perry, I appreciate everyone's frustration with me. Let me give you an example of a "no luck" testing:
DH and myself are ready, equipment is ready, Mugsy is placed on the testing spot (lying on his side) and we both soothe him physically and vocally. DH grabs his scruff with one hand and holds his front legs down with the other, I grab his whipping tail and the foot I will use. Mugsy starts growling, snarling and struggling. I use the rice sock (heated) if his foot is not warmed enough and and tell him soothingly "see it doesn't hurt". I poke his pad and try to get enough of a blood drop to test (.5 ml) while trying to keep the foot and tail in my hand, he struggles harder and now I have to grab the 2nd foot, too, while DH gets a firmer grip on the scruff and avoids the teeth. Blood is barely visible or not at all. Poke again - again - again - again ..... Finally, after 5 to 8 pokes and ? (some to none) strips we have to call it quits because it's getting really nasty. On bad days this can happen every 2 hours from 7 am to 8 pm. ohmygod_smile He gets revenge after we turn him loose.
On good days we get at least one or two successful tests - three if were really lucky. As I have explained repeatedly, I am waiting for 26 ga lancets which are on the way. That should give me a better chance of getting sufficient blood for testing.
If you are frustrated with me - think of how we feel! :roll: Think of how Mugsy feels! cat(2)_steam
I would love :-D to poke him once and get a successful test done. I would feel thrilled if I could get enough tests to know whats going on. I am worried about his health. I am spending money I can't afford to take care of him. My health is suffering trying to take care of him and DH and myself. My Dr would have a fit if she saw my BP! Please have more patience with me. I am trying and waiting for supplies that should help us succeed.
 
Sorry - as you can, I hope, believe, there is no intent to cause any further upset here... but from what you describe, I wonder if that is part of the problem?

It rather sounds like Mugsy is being somewhat forcibly restrained and maybe feels threatened - so the natural reaction is to try and get away? Also, the "fight or flight" refex, as I understand it, tends to cause an adrenalin rush - which tends to inhibit bleeding!! Can you possibly try a less confrontational approach, where you are not holding him down? (And maybe even try the ears again, since it seems that the paws aren't working at all - is he one of those cats who just doesn't like his paws touched?)

You have to try and find a way to get him to cooperate - or at least, not trigger the flight / fight reflex! It would be so much better if he did not even realize you are going to poke him - he has to associate this with being stroked / cuddled, etc.....!!

As someone else said, maybe try to hold frequent DUMMY poke sessions, where you do all the preamble, etc (we used to stroke and play with both his ears to get him used to that) have the meter nearby, all as it would normally be but no poke!!... that way he MAY just develop a little trust and not associate this with anything bad, when the time for the REAL poke actually comes along...?
 
I'm just going to cheer you on...
smiley-happy105.gif
you can do this, I know you can
smiley-happy105.gif
you will get he hang of it
smiley-happy105.gif
and so will Mugsy, I just know it
smiley-happy105.gif


We're all here to help you.
 
I have to jump in and echo Perry's thoughts. I've never found restraining a cat to work to anyone's benefit. It has to be a positive experience for him. I can't remember how you tried to do his ear....seems I do remember you weren't getting anywhere with it. We all have developed our own methods of doing ear pokeys but I think
the basic thing is not to restrain him by holding him down. I know none of my cats would respond well to being scruffed.

One suggestion...it might help...it's a pseudo restraint, I guess, but not like what he's getting now. Shortly after I got Tobey, my kitten, I needed to be able to give him
Albon from a syringe. When I first tried to do it like the other cats, he, of course, resisted because he didn't know what it was about. So I just got a hand towel (because he was little), and just wrapped it around him and overlapped it on his back where I could hold it. That made ALL the difference in the world...he didn't struggle and he
learned how to take something from a syringe. Only a couple nights of that and he didn't need the towel anymore. I know in assist-feeding cats, they often do the same thing....you don't want the towel really tight but just around them...I don't know if that would help you with his ears or his paws but you wouldn't have to hold his legs, scruff him, hold his tail, etc.

Let us know..good luck...but Perry is right....you MUST get more tests so the advisors can see what is going on....whether these numbers are hard bounces from dangerously low BGs or his numbers really are that high, it's not good for him and no one can know what kind of dose he needs until you have more data. I know you are tired at night....we all are...but we have to do it. I figure if I'm getting 3-4 hours uninterrupted sleep at a time on the weekends, I am one lucky girl. If Gracie is trending down and it's late, I just set my phone alarm and lay down on the couch, get up, test, go back to sleep until the next alarm goes off, get up, test, etc.

We are trying to be supportive...we all want to help.
 
Sally, has anyone ever mentioned the clothes pin trick? The link is here: http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick Basically it calms the cat down so you can handle him more easily. There have been some fdmb members that have used this very successfully. If you can get it to work, you might be able to use Mugsy's ear instead of paw. I suspect that the paw are more sensitive. I tried the paws when I first started testing because I failed so many times with the ear. After I got the hang of it, I went back to the ear and had success. Donna and Buddha are somewhere in Georgia. If you're interested, I can pm her and see if she lives nearby to help.
 
Working for the vets I can attest to the less restraint the better. Have you tried papoosing Mugsy in a towel, this seems to calm them for the most part. If you are poking the foot pad you can just pull the foot out of the towel/blanket. It took me awhile to get the whole ear poke down to a true art, I use a lancet pen which is quick and easy, it sure is easier to hit the sweet spot with the pen than the little lancet thing. I got them really cheap at target but now I get the refills online.
Oh to help make sure I get the sweet spot on the ears I use a rolled up gauze wrapped in tape, works great. We use that at the clinic but for some reason I could not do it on my own cat at first.
Best wishes.
 
Ele & Blackie said:
Donna and Buddha are somewhere in Georgia. If you're interested, I can pm her and see if she lives nearby to help.
Click to expand...
There's also a Kristin and Abby listed as living in Georgia, from the Members list.
 
Lori, the major problem here is the inablilty to get sufficient tests to be able to see how the insulin is working. If Sally could become more successful at testing, it would be possible to start doing something about those high numbers. Not criticizing Sally...it's just the reality of the situation!

What would you suggest she do about those numbers? It's either too much insulin or not enough. Which one is it? Is your crystal ball working? Mine is at the shop, so I'm afraid I can't tell without data. :mrgreen:

Sally, how is Mugsy acting? Is he lethargic? Is he eating? Have you been able to test for ketones?
 
I'm sorry, I do not mean to panic anyone, but when my Gingers numbers were that high, I had to rush her to the ER.
She ended up having more problems than just diabetes and we had to put her down.
I still worry when I see anyone who's cat has such dangerously high numbers.

Sally is trying very hard to get the readings, and I understand how hard it can be sometimes. I have one cat that goes spastic when I try to get a BG reading. Luckily he is not diabetic at this time.
If he ever ends up diabetic, I know it will be a nightmare trying to get multiple readings.
 
I understand your concern about restraining him. He will not lie on his back like Harry, he fights the towel even when I try to dry him off when he's wet from rain, and DH is the clothes pins. He does not want to be held! I left out the flailing tail which gets away from me, the feet which get away from both of us, and his screams (yes - screams) at every poke. He refuses to co-operate any other way. Tuesday - fingers crossed - larger lancets. I have been studying his chart and I am raising the dose. His overall numbers are way to high.
 
Sally and Mugsy said:
He does not want to be held!
Click to expand...
So then - don't hold him...! he's just fighting back. That was the point I was trying to make before. And DH cannot be the clothespins. Try the real thing!!

The other issue is that you are geting him soooo agitated that is probably part of the reason the numbers are so high - agitation raises BG numbers - just like happens when they are tested at the vet's office.

You are self-defeating here - you have to try a different approach when the one that you are using is patently not working and is causing your cat (and YOU!) such distress
 
At this point, since Mugsy is not cooperating, would it be beneficial to let the vet get a BG curve? I know that is frowned upon because of stress, but at least it would get some numbers. Just a thought.

Good luck :)
 
Please talk to your vet about Mugsy's dose. Be sure they know and support what you are doing.

I don't mean to beat up on you because I know you are trying, but we cannot help you in Lantus Land. We are lay people, not vets. We suggest dosing here based on a published protocol. Without data, we cannot make dosing recommendations.

You DO need to find help somewhere. If you cannot blood test, then you need to go to your vet for curves and dosing advice. In the meantime, also post on Health and see if anyone can help you learn urine testing. Vets are used to giving dosing advice without data, so talk to them.
 
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