11/5-Cini Mini - +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137, PMPS 357

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cini Mini's Mom

Cini Mini's Mom

Member Since 2011
Previous thread here: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=55768

Good Morning! Hope everyone is doing ok today. I have been up doing LOTS of reading here in the forums and the stickies.

Cini's AMPS BG this morning was 222! That's great! I gave him 1 unit Lantus.

Is it better to do +2, +4, +6, etc checks throughout the day or is +3, +6, +9 ok? Obviously if I did the +2, +4 timing I would get more checks in but wanted to know what the popular opinion was on that.

I also started giving him his insulin SQ on his flanks instead of right behind his neck in his scruff. I read on here where someone else did that because their cat developed lumps under the skin on their scruff and Cini has been having that too.

VERY encouraged by the lower number this morning. Looking forward to the great feedback from you guys on what the next steps should be.

Oh, and I am planning to do an hourly curve on him tomorrow. Today I have a lot of errands to run but tomorrow I plan to be home all day.
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

the +2 is supposed to be (in an ideal world/cat) about the same as the preshot - so that test can tell you where your cat is aiming for the following few hours. but every cat is different, and your tests are going to tell you how cini mini's body works.

personally, i wouldn't do an hourly testing unless i had some particular reason for it. i haven't ever done one. i test every 15-20 minutes if he's gotten low and i'm worried, but once i think he's not going lower, i might go several hours without testing - that's because i know how he "works."

you can get the even hours one day and the odd hours another day - all the data doesn't have to be on 2 days, either. look at a couple of spreadsheets (they are in people's signature lines) and you can see people do all different things. it just depends on what they are looking for.

the first 5 or so days on lantus you are building the "shed." things will begin to change as the shed fills, because then it is releasing insulin from its precipitated form as well.
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

Hi, I'm not sure if I have posted here before, but welcome to LL. Even or odd numbers are really personal preference. Often we will do it one way and the next time the other. I usually like to have at least an hour after food before I do my regular test, it gives a clearer picture without so much food influence.

A full hourly curve tomorrow? Be sure t have lots of treats on hand. I'm sure Cini Mini will be a trooper through it all.

funny-pictures-diabeetus-blud-checkr-do-it-offen.jpg
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

I tend to agree with julie...
I think it's a little too soon to do hourly testing on Cini Mini...

I'm a bit of a testaholic, but I would go with every 3 hours unless he drops below 100...

that being said, I am NOT one of the sages/advisors...they may weigh in with different thoughts.

best of luck, guys!

celi & binks
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

Thanks for the information. I thought I read in the previous thread that someone thought it would be a good idea to do an hourly curve, but now, re-reading it again they didn't say hourly. So that's my fault :oops: (I'm sure Cini will be happy to hear he does not get his ears pierced every hour tomorrow)

Today I'll focus on a +3, +6, +9 recheck and tomorrow I'll try the +2, +4 ...etc schedule.
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

I try to time spot checks with meal times so that there's no food spike in the number, though this is my personal preference. Magnolia eats +3, +6, +9...etc. When doing a curve, I do every two hours, regardless of her meal times.

You're doing a great job!
 
Re: Cini Mini - AMPS 222 - New to this, have questions

welcome to Lantus Land!

This is a nice AM number, can you get a spot check or two today? Would like to see where he's going from here.
 
Re: 11/5 - Cini Mini - AMPS 222 +3 = 72!

Hi, just posted his +3 number in the spreadsheet.

It's 72 ! I don't know whether to be happy or anxious about that. If it were his +6 number (which would be the nadir point, right?) then that would be good.

I hope it doesn't go much lower. Anything below 60 makes me nervous.

I fed him some FF chicken feast after that reading (I was going to feed him some Purina DM but changed my mind).
 
Re: 11/5 - Cini Mini - AMPS 222 +3 = 72!

Hi Cathy

It was me that suggested you do a curve but usually it every couple hours. It's a good idea to do +2, +4, +6, etc one day and the odd numbers the next just to see. Once you kinda have it figured out, I recommend that you ALWAYS get a +2 because that might tell you where the cycle is headed. If you'd had a +2 today, for instance, you would have seen he was headed down. Like Julie said, the +2 should be close to the PS so if it isn't, then it's a flag to watch the numbers that day.

A couple things: when we get a number that seems alot lower than we would expect, we retest. It is totally possible he's coming down really fast and that the +3 is accurate but I would have retested just to make sure. If he is coming down that fast, good that you fed him. I'd recheck in 30 just to be sure you got it slowed down. That's a big drop for early in the cycle.

Not many of us feed DM...in fact, I can't think of anyone who has been around a while that does. Too high in carbs ;-) And it's not got healthy ingredients.

Pls recheck and post so we can see where he's headed. Thanks!!
 
Re: 11/5 - Cini Mini - AMPS 222, +3 = 72, +3.5 = 95

OK, it's been 30 mins and I re-tested and it's now 95.

Marjorie,

Really? Purina DM is not so good? I thought it was supposed to be THE miracle diet developed by Dr Hodgkins for FD?

I looked at your "Low BG" link that you had in your signature (thanks for having that there, it made me feel better :razz: ) and the recommended food list at Binky's link is 3 years old. Is that the most up to date list of commercial can foods?

Oh and Cini is acting fine, he's sitting here looking at me with this expression of "What" on his face.
 
Re: 11/5 - Cini Mini - AMPS 222, +3 = 72, +3.5 = 95

Yay....way to go Cini Mini!!!

If you look at the "new to the group" sticky, scroll down and there are several charts on food inc J&Bs but yes the J&B chart is a little older. Here is a link to the sticky:
New to the Group

On the first chart, he shows DM as being 3% calories from carbs but I believe I read that it is more like 8% or more. At any rate, it is not a good food and there might be one newbie who is feeding that to her kitty (Mary/Stella). The rest of us feed either the 4% Wellness foods (chicken, chicken/beef, turkey); the BG turkey (1%), beef (1%), chicken/quail (2%), chicken (2%); or the Evo chicken/turkey (2%) or beef (2-3%); or some of the LC fancy feast varieties. I think some might feed some of the Special Kitty LC varieties but I don't know what the FF or SK % carbs are. You can search the LL forum and there may be some lists. Several people feed raw.

Glad you looked at the link!! Plus remember there is usually someone around to help, too.
 
Re: 11/5 - Cini Mini - AMPS 222, +3 = 72, +3.5 = 95

OK, so DM is ok to feed right? 3% carbs sounds pretty low to me. I don't feed it to him exclusively, just overnight or when I am going to be gone for a while. The other cats don't care for it as much and that leaves more for Cini to eat. I think I heard somewhere the reason why it's not recommended for all the time was because the main ingredient is liver and liver can be addictive.

For the most part, I feed the FF Classic Turkey, Chicken or Beef feast varieties. They are smoother and with his esophagus condition they go down better than the other FF varieties. In fact NONE of my cats like the grilled FF.

Edit:
Just took a +5 reading and it's 119 :smile:
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -AMPS 222, +3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119

good job today!

we feed the fancy feasts classic chicken feast and classic beef - i believe they are both 3-4%. somehow i thought the DM was in the 20% range . . .

fyi, always go by testing data to tell you if cini mini's BG is ok - vets tell you to watch for hypo symptoms, but nearly all the time on lantus cats don't seem to show too much in the way of symptoms until it's very serious. they'll get low numbers, like in the 30's, that demand quick action but many of them don't seem to act much different. so if you ever have a thought that her numbers might be low, grab a test. before long it won't even take you a minute and then you'll know that she's ok.

some cats ask to be fed, or will go eat, if they feel their BG is low - punkin does and some others do too. but not all do.

what i've heard people report in the first physical symptom is a spaciness or staring. that's only in my limited experience here, but i've heard it a few times.
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -AMPS 222, +3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119

I thought that 3% was wrong. Here's a condo discussing %carbs in DM and it's 7%....I was thinking 8 so I wasn't too far off. Interesting discussion:

Carbs in DM

Sienne makes a good point that the ingredients are not good. I wouldn't worry about the liver...it's all the other stuff.....
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

Hi Juile, since Cini doesn't have any eyes the "staring and spaciness" is not a help to me. ohmygod_smile But, he will act more hungry than usual or sometimes he'll vomit. Lucky for us this has only happened once or twice in his FD adventure.

Marjorie, thanks for that link. I am going to go read it right now.


Soooo, his +9 BG was 137...where do we go from here? If his PMPS is below 150 then I don't give anything, right?
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

that's probably a good guideline for this stage that you're at.

the last starred sticky at the top of the lantus forum is for how to deal with low numbers, including when you're confronted with a low preshot number.

the first question is will you be around to monitor and do you have supplies - enough test strips, high carb food, etc?

you have 3 options with a number that feels uncomfortable to shoot.

1. you can stall 30 minutes or so (don't feed) and retest to see if the number is high enough that you feel comfortable to shoot. you can repeat this 30 minute stalling step, but remember that the next shot has to be 12 hours after you shoot, so sometimes people can't manage that and they just skip.

2. you can skip the shot entirely

3. you can give a reduced dose - maybe 1/2 dose, low enough that you feel comfortable but still something.

often cats will rise quite a bit after +9, so this may not come up at all. there's also usually someone on either here or the main health forum during the night, but not always. good for you to prepare now for the decision later.

also, when the number begins to rise, sometimes it rises very quickly around that +12 so often just a few minutes of stalling will bring it high enough that you're ok shooting.

if you choose to skip the shot, don't worry about it. sometimes we screw up a shot, just call it "a fur shot" and get back on track later. it happens.
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

Judging from where the +9 is, my guess is that Cini may be bouncing by PMPS time but we'll have to wait and see. I think you'll be fine to shoot.

I'm amazed that Cini likes DM. Gabby is not a fussy eater and she did not find DM appealing in the least and it really is a poor quality food. For what you're paying for the prescription food, you can buy a lower carb, human grade cat food (e.g., Wellness, EVO). FWIW, Hodgkins is no longer affiliated with Hill's/Science Diet. One of the major pet food companies bought the company and the food quality took a nose dive.

Just an observation - since you shoot late, you may want to make sure there's some indication whether the numbers in your subject line are the AM or the PM cycle.
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

julie & punkin said:
the first question is will you be around to monitor and do you have supplies - enough test strips, high carb food, etc?
Click to expand...

Yep, just got more test strips from the Vet yesterday, bought a new box of 100 lancets today. And just came home from the pet store with 4 cans of Purina Naturals Salmon and Brown Rice, and Chicken and Brown Rice (and a new Kickaroo cat toy for the man. He was telepathically commanding me to do this @-)

Because the emergency Vet changed is shot times I am having to stay up late to move the times back. Today he got his AMPS at 12:30pm and tonight he'll get his PMPS at Midnight (trying to move each instance in by a half hour till I get him back to 8am / 8pm schedule. )
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

mmmm - do you know what the carb value on those is? i would think rice would have carbs in it, but am not sure. cats are carnivores - exclusive meat eaters.

it's hard when you get off schedule - you can adjust by 30 minutes per 24 hr day or 15 minutes per cycle without having it affect them much. if you go back to midnight tonight, then you need to repeat at noon tomorrow and then 11:30pm tomorrow night.

last time i was 3 hours off schedule with punkin i tried to back him up - but he's obnoxious when he wants to be fed - and i finally skipped a shot when he was low so i could shoot when i wanted to the next morning. it's not ideal, but it's an option if you're too far off to make it work easily. all the feeding needs to still be in relationship to the shots - so most of cini's food needs to be in the first few hours of the cycle.

what happened to her eyes?
 
Re: 11/5-Cini Mini -+3/72, +3.5/95, +5/119, +9/137

Don't know what the carb value is for the Purina salmon / chicken and brown rice but figured it would be higher than the FF foods. I bought the Purina to keep as the "high carb backup" in case Cini gets low again (crossing my fingers he doesn't).


*Ehem* *Cough* Cini is a male cat *Cough*

The mother cat had feline herpes and she died. There were 3 kittens and they all had severely ulcerated eyes. Cini was the only one to survive and we had to remove his eyes when he was 6 weeks old.
 
Boy, you guys weren't kidding when you said I wouldn't have to worry about his PMPS being too low to shoot.

+12 was 357, so that's 1 unit again
 
sorry! i got you gender confused, cini mini! i'll get it now (i hope!)

that's a bounce! it can take 72 hours to clear - put on your patience pants and don't increase the dose because you're seeing high numbers. you have to wait for it to clear and then you'll see what the dose is doing.

btw, i mentioned to Tiki's bean that you, Louie & Tiki are all starting within a couple of days of each other. you might read each others' condos and learn from the advice given to each of you.
 
Are bounce's good?

I just gave him 1 unit which is what he's been getting for the past several cycles so no change in dose.

I'll set my clock for two hours from now to check his +2.
 
bounces just are - you can't prevent them but over time they lessen til they eventually go away.

you don't have to check him (see, i retained that for 10 minutes!) at +2 tonight. go to bed and enjoy sleeping! he's not going to clear it in 2 hours and he's definitely in no danger. i'd check him in the morning when you get up.
 
Ha ha! Thanks Julie! I am so glad I found this forum and people like you. I would have gotten up all night! Thank you for keeping an eye on me and Cini Mini tonight.

I think after toady's adventures we both can use a good night's sleep free of interruptions.
 
you're welcome - just passing it on - others did it for me too! i was set to stay up all night the first night and someone told me to go to bed. when you're new, how would you know?

:-D i'm glad you and I both found it - it's a great place. the best place you never wanted to be . . .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top