11/5 Charlie amps:470, 3.5u

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Charliemeow

Charliemeow

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Amps:470, 3.5u
Cruddy numbers this morning make me believe that rebound was not the issue, unfortunately. So I upped to 3.5. I'll go up to 4 on Sunday. Then maybe jump to 5 on Tuesday. I'm gonna buy some high carb food today to be prepared. I'll ask the vet for a dose for tomorrow am from the vet. Does that sound good? I didn't try the vet dose today cuz they don't open till 8 and I shot like a zombie this morning.
 
+5:293
almost 200 points down. That's the best I've seen in quite a while. It'll be nice to see some yellow in the ss again!
 
see i'm thinking if we focus of the actual number of bg's dropped we can assume there is some reaction but charlie wants more help. i think we should start focusing on pecent drop instead of just what the numbers are. if we find a good percent drop but not a good enough # than we know he needs more insulin.
good for that nice drop today charlie.
 
just looked at ss. see what i mean..this is immediate significant drop. we can't just look at the colors we really have to look at the #'s. altho yesterday he was close to the same +6 it was only a 114 drop. today it was a 180 drop.
so no more colors...
 
That's a nice # after almost 10 days of not getting anything close to that. :) Try holding this dose of 3.50u for 3 days and see where Charlies goes with it. It may take him a bit of time until he gets used to it a bit, then increase it. With ProZinc, you can either increase it by 0.5u or by a 1.0u. However, I would think that increasing it by 0.5u each time would be better for him.

You can also try with Charlie what I did with Blackie and hold the doses longer than that, if you want. Feel free to take a look at her SS. The ProZinc information is on the top, and it was given to her from June 22nd until July 24th. It may give you some idea on how it went with her. Charlie may be like Blackie... Insulin resistance may be a factor when it comes to ProZinc, and you may need to switch to another insulin in order to get him regulated.

Hope the new dose works well for you both! :)
 
Not much lower than previously.... ~O)

I think that's ok. As Lori says we saw a drop below 300 though.

I might expect some high values though for the next 24 hours. Don't be surprised or disappointed.
 
blue they are actually much lower becuase of the amount of drop...not the actual number.
is'nt the amount of drop more important than close nadirs?
 
We haven't dropped that many points since 10-26(?). It looks nice, but I certainly know better than to get my hopes up. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
 
Angela- if you happen to stop back...I was looking at Blackie's ss, and was just wondering what made you decide to switch from prozinc to lantus when you did? You were still at low doses, so I'm just wondering the reasoning behind it.
 
Claudia, I switched because the ProZinc wasn't doing anything for her. Her #'s appeared to be going lower, but in fact, it was like she was stagnant, especially towards the end when she was getting 2u BID. She was starting to need more insulin. Before I started the SS, we had to take her to the vet pretty much each weekend, and it was there that the #'s were very high.. 400's and 500's in most cases, and at 1 time 600's. That was stress, plus the fact that she was on the wrong food (Hill's Prescription W/D formula, which is very high in carbs).

I simply made the switch on the suggestion of a good friend. Now, she's doing much better on the Lantus, and so far has had 3 decreases in dosage since October 8th. I'm waiting for the 4th one... Eventually, it'll come. :)

Please keep in mind that ProZinc has a duration of about 10 hours, whereas Lantus has 12, and it also has an overlap, too. That may be the reason why you're seeing such high #'s in the a.m. If you haven't done so already, try the food switch to lower carbs wet only, and see if that makes any difference in Charlie's #'s. Right now, you're in the "science experiment stage" of seeing what works with Charlie.
 
I see, thanks. He is on lower carb wet food (<9% friskies pate) only. That didn't seem to have a lot of effect on his numbers, but I know that it's much healthier for him...and he loves wet food, so he is happy! I wonder if prozinc is often harder to regulate cats on. According to their site it works for a huge percent of cats...but that's not really unbiased information. It doesn't seem like there are many users on this board.
 
There aren't many users on the board because it is a new insulin. It was introduced last November and vets didn't start prescribing it regularly until this spring. This is where alot of my frustration comes from, everybody seems to think it is exactly like the old PZI but it isn't. Rant over.

When I switched Harley from Friskies 8% carbs to Wellness 4% carbs I saw a dramatic improvement in his bg's. Something to think about. I tried it after Laurie & Mr. Tinkles had success with it.
 
I haven't seen wellness wet. Is it at regular pet stores (petsmart/petco/pet supplies plus [not petland--We boycott that place])? How much is it? Honestly, we're using friskies right now simply because it's dirt cheap. He eats 2 1/2 cans per day, so it adds up. But it's something worth looking in to.
 
The methods used in the studies on ProZinc are different than the ones employed here.

"Harder" is subjective. For the cats that it works well with, PZI is probably the easiest and most forgiving of any insulin for cats. Charlie is proving not to be an 'easy' cat.

"More users" - is not necessarily a good thing - if users were lemmings... If you haven't noticed, there is quite a bit of Lantus proselytization that goes on here. The recommendations for other insulins are hardly unbiased. This is not to diminish the benefits of Lantus. If you were reading between the lines earlier the Lantus group is maybe less 'agreeing' with folks that employ different methods. Honestly, I would think about Levimir if you were thinking of switching. Do your research on all of the insulins. Visit the ISGs of the various insulins, read their SSs, decide which is best for you and your kitty's sitch, read read read.

It would not appear that remission is a goal for Charlie in the very near future. The "remission" rate is one of the supposed benefits to Lantus.

You've not really had much time with PZI. You just took some time to do a safety check. So hop back on the horse here with PZI and in the mean time start really researching the other insulins. If then you think a another insulin would be a better match for you and Charlie, I would say go for it. I found the proselytization going on here really got in my head and caused me needless second guessing of the insulin which was highly un-beneficial time/energy wise. lol And I'm obviously none-too happy about it :-D
 
I agree about the Lev if you decide to switch.

While I'm thankful for the Lantus peeps input, especially with the higher dose kitties, Prozinc IS NOT Lantus, It is ALSO NOT old PZI. That is why the methods used in the study on Prozinc are not the ones used here is BECAUSE IT IS NOT the old PZI and can not be treated as such.

Shaking fist.

Nite nite.
 
Hehe, the studies on ProZinc were done at a certain institution that does not advocate home testing... But I think participants were issued alpha trak home testers... So the methods would be different indeed. From my recollection, the studies really make no mention of what "protocol" were used - but I may be wrong about that. Anyway, I know I did not see anything about "SLGS" or "scale" in the studies.

BCP would be another good alternative to ProZinc if one wants the advantages of PZI without whatever differences one may feel there are to ProZinc vs PZI Vet.
 
Well pardon me.

I thought we all agreed to the rebound check. A rebound check is the same no matter what the insulin type is because it is the liver and coritsol, and hormones that are throwing things off. We are not waiting for the insulin to clear the system in a rebound check. We're waiting for the body's metabolism to settle back down.

We all knew it might or might not be indicative of what the obstacle to regulation is.

I was asked direct questions regarding Lantus and it's use. I answered them. If I sounded like proselytizing it wasn't meant to sound that way. I was simply trying to answer your questions.

Claudia, I am sorry if I caused you and Charlie any added undue stress. I certainly meant to help, meant to avoid potential harm, and provide information.
 
ohmygod_smile I meant in general Blue on this board. And the proselytizing that I encountered when I first started that made me personally do a lot of hand wringing that ended up a diversion of my energies. Err, hmm 'going on here' was not specific to this case but when I started -- sorry for not making that more clear. :oops: I should have made that more clear as you do not know my back story. Not that researching the various insulins is not worthy time spent. Just that I did not have anyone tell me that PZI was The solution like is so often done with Lantus without knowing the whole cat. So nothing personal. The safety check was a good idea. Claudia was concerned about the number of PZI users, and I was answering that concern with my opinion of one of the inputs to that.

IMHO it is a little unfair to talk about all the wonderful things about one approach without acknowledging some of the drawbacks. That ultimately creates an 'biased' picture.
 
:roll: :oops: I understand now. Thank you for clearing it up...

Claudia, Wellness can food is able to be purchased at Landmark Garden Supply. Plus if you buy a full case they will give you a 10% discount. They are on Prospect Rd. in Berea. If you want directions let me know. Nice gentleman there runs the pet food department.

I have not seen it at the Farmer's Exchange in Berea. I think they specialize more in Innova/Natura/California Natural/Evo. Although I can check or ask today when I stop in this afternoon. Same thing here ...10% off on a case purchase.

But, if you're not terribly fussy you can buy 40lb bags of Easy Clean Clumping cat litter at the Exchange for under $8.00. That is the same litter we use at the shelter. It is a little dusty coming out of a bag that big, but it does the job. Yes, 40lb bags. They will even carry it out to your car for you. Nice friendly guys work there too. They even offered to order in Attie's food for me special with a 10% discount. Again let me know if you want directions. The exchange is a little tough to find, took me a week before I figured out where it was. ohmygod_smile

Attie's on a special diet if you look in my tagline. I buy the big 13 0z cans of Venison for $1.79 less 10%. That is like 3 Fancy Feast or 2 Friskies size cans. I know the price is comparable to the FF, but it is hard to beat Friskies at 4 for $2.
 
OH NOOO! :cry: I appreciate ALL the input! We're all in the same boat, we just may be using different oars! I like to hear about other insulins, and haven't felt pressured at all. Nancy shared some info about levemir with me, and blue shared some info about lantus, but no one has seemed preachy to me. I know that if Charlie ends up being high dose or acro I will have to switch to a u100 simply because pzi will get too expensive. So I'm glad to hear the pros and cons of the others.
I thank you, blue for helping me out when I asked--it's important to me to have someone local that I can call on if I need to! I like that your not doing tight regulation with atlas, cuz if I do switch someday TR/remission will likely NOT be my goal...so it's nice to know someone who is going against the grain on lantus.
It's easy for intentions yo be misunderstood when you're communicating through a computer! I hope we are all OK! :-D
 
Blue- yes I'd like directions to landmark garden supply. How much is the food, though? I wish it was at petsmart...so easy, so close! Oh well. We use swheat scoop litter, because of the dangers of breathing clay dust...but that may change if the layoff goes on too long, so I appreciate the litter info, too! 40# for the same price I pay for 13# is a great deal! Plus nice guys to load your car...the only thing that would make it better would be if they were easy on the eyes! ;-)
 
Wellness is going to be about the same as EVO and Innova. Be aware though that sometimes the bigger cans are more cost effective. That is what I learned with having to switch to Venison for Attie. I bought the shorties the first time at nearly the same price as the big cans! It made no sense after it was pointed out to me.

The first time I wouldn't buy a case anyway. My cats wouldn't touch the Wellness with a ten foot pole. They all attempted to bury it!!!! :lol: Even the kittens I was fostering turned their noses up at it at the time. Crazy.

Wellness Vendor List for Parma

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/about-us.aspx

Pet Supplies Plus
7719 W Ridgewood Dr
Parma, OH 44129-5553
Phone +1(440)886-0866


3
Petsmart
6870 Ridge Rd
Parma, OH 44129
Phone 440-845-9592


4
Petco
6859 PEARL RD
MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS, OH 44130
Phone 440-887-1730


5
Pet Supplies Plus
4808 Ridge Road
BROOKLYN, OH 44144
Phone +1(216)482-3721
 
Lantus and Levemir are obviously 2 different insulins. I'm not sure how Levemir works, however, Lantus has a 12 hour duration, and appears to be a bit more gentler than the ProZinc or PZI. Plus, the fact that there's the possible remission factor. Those, and the fact that I've seen success with it with other kitties is the reason why I switched. And also the fact that I really wasn't getting anywhere with the ProZinc.

Despite all that, there are different insulins for a bean to try on their kitties. What works for one may not necessarily work for another. Research is a tool that we all use, and knowledge is power.

Claudia, do your homework, and research on the net with anything that you can with regards to diabetes, nutrition, insulins, whatever. The more knowledge you have, the better armed you'll be, especially when it comes to vet checks.
 
I mustve been blind when I read your post the first time, Blue. I see the prices of wellness now! I'll check petsmart. Maybe I can at least use that for every-other feeding, maybe. I've looked at all their foods and don't remember seeing wellness there- I found the kibbles that we used to use as a transition at petco...but that's a bit farther away. Maybe I missed it though- I'll check again! Thanks!
 
OMG, I wrote this big long post and when I hit submit it dissappeared! Probably God's way of telling me to shut up. :-D

But since I won't.

Blue, Angela, Nancy, Claudia, Lori, Joanna and anyone else here, please don't misunderstand my unclear post.

I was responding to Claudia's observation that there aren't many Prozinc users here and my frustration flared up. I have been frustrated by the lack of accumulated knowledge with Prozinc for a long time, because it's new and doesn't have a tried and true protocol to follow like other insulins. We are trying to figure out it's qirks as we go along. Like the 45 day wonky settling in period. Whats up with that.

It didn't have anything to do with this thread or anyone involved with it. Claudia is right, we are all in the same boat and need each other to stay afloat.

I was fully behind the rebound check wether it worked or didn't work, but it looks like it shook something loose for Charlie.

With my personal trait of impatience I probably should have picked a different insulin but since I didn't and Prozinc has thrown down the gauntlet I feel challenged to figure it out.

Without the experience and help from Lori & Joanna, Harley would not be doing as well as he is. He may never go into remission again but he is as well regulated as we can get him. It takes a village.

PZI is a small group with a new insulin. We need everyone's eyes, experience and input so that someday we can have a tried and true protocol too.

PS: My Petco just started carrying Wellness.

Ok God, I'll shut up now.
 
Yeah, ProZinc is a new insulin, that's for sure. As for the 45 day wonkiness, I don't know about that. Unless, it's a duration of time that the cat needs to get adjusted to the ProZinc, the ProZinc to adjust to the cat, or both. *shrug*
 
just popped in. i'm also tired of just one thing in particular. most newbie's are never even suggested the "option" of pro zinc. it's a shame. and the rate of remission here is equal if not higher if you go by percentage of users. all of our OYJ'ers leave the minute they are off the juice. there's been 3 in the last year...with only about 10 of us here!
it is too early to abandon pzi.
and also...fwiw, it's not that lantus is better...it is simply longer lasting, pro zinc is shorter lasting. then humulin etc. are super short lasting. ok, that's it. the reason for lantus success is the protocol they are using and anyone with the 24 hours a day it takes to monitor a protocol like that (and my hats are so off to those guys) are welcome to it.
it's expensive, very time consuming and forget about sleep. but percentage wise i dare someone to say lantus has 'more' remissions.
my rant!
forgot the 2 who came and went in like 40-50 days in remission but we all know who they are and i consider you robin to basically be in remission---sort of. i mean really.
 
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