11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.5u

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Charliemeow

Charliemeow

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+6.5:344 (middle of night)
Amps:432, 2.5 u

I'm not sure this is gonna be the fix. But at least he's not getting worse through it. Still drinking and peeing nomally. Acting normal too.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Hmmm.... ~O)

It looks like you already gave the morning dose. So let's just see where he goes today?

It is not about right or wrong. We're trying to eliminate potential regulation obstacles. We checked for rebound as there was insulin movement and then none. So, one down. If we don't see low 300's or yellow today...I am pretty comfortable talking about a dose increase for tomorrow if we go aggressive. Since you are not a night person, I think doing it during the day would be better for you. Of course, that is always up to you though.

And just look at all you learned! :lol:

Let's see what others think too.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Hi, I'm mad I'm missing all the action and discussion, the internet is down at home but I have been calling Lori for updates.

Since he hasn't lost any ground with the dose change, Is there any way to check the insulin? Can a compounding pharmacy check the potency?

I guess what I'm saying is that for safty sake I would like to check off the easy to do items first, if the insulin has been compromised I would hate to see Claudia aggressivly up his dose, buy a new bottle of insulin that is potent and have a problem with the high dose.

This is still only day three and I havn't completly read yesterdays thread but maybe she could take her spreadsheet and the insulin back to the vet saying it's defective and get it replaced with a new bottle.

Nancy, sorry to hear about your mom.

Claudia, you're doing a great job.

I hope I'll be able to get back online tonight.

Have a great day everyone.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Rob & Harley said:
Hi, I'm mad I'm missing all the action and discussion, the internet is down at home but I have been calling Lori for updates.

Since he hasn't lost any ground with the dose change, Is there any way to check the insulin? Can a compounding pharmacy check the potency?

I guess what I'm saying is that for safty sake I would like to check off the easy to do items first, if the insulin has been compromised I would hate to see Claudia aggressivly up his dose, buy a new bottle of insulin that is potent and have a problem with the high dose.

Claudia, you're doing a great job.

I hope I'll be able to get back online tonight.

Have a great day everyone.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there is no potency check for insulin. The only thing that can be done is to try a new bottle. This is why one should always have a backup bottle on hand.

I am being told ProZinc is a pretty stable insulin. Although their warning label does state if you start getting wonky numbers...you may have lost insulin potency and replace the bottle?

I have found there are times one gets wonky numbers for awhile and you're just about to crack open that new bottle...and magically it seems the old bottle works again.

It is interesting his numbers shifted down a bit, but did not show yellow movement.

Any additional thoughts here?
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

you know what is happening in and of itself is what we need to focus on.
charlie literally does not react differently to 2 or 4 units.
if insulin is ok,,,and i'm certain unless it came 'bad' that claudia has treated it with proper care this is the case. non-responsive. this is why i wanted to do a dramatic dosecreas to eliminate the guessing of this insulin working at all.
i am very glad we went this route first really. it is kind of good lesson.
i had asked her about her syringes, making sure that if she's using u100's she was using them right. prozinc is a u40 insulin?
he's been checked for infections, this is either a big gulper, acro, or pzi resistant kitty.
take a look at angela and blackie and 8 others to see the exact same response to pzi and now doing great on uggg, lantus. TR
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

his reaction looks pretty similar to Codys last winter. Mild drops at proper nadir times, just not a lot of action. Unexplained changes in action which last a week or more. a dose that worked, then didn't, then worked again.

I was so sure one of our new vials was bad that I complained and eventually they replaced it, but with acro you really can't be sure the cause of changes. Turns out the new vial didn't change much.

Unfortunately, buying another vial is an awfully expensive test if Prozinc isn't right for him because he requires higher dose. Maybe her vet has an opened bottle and could try one more low AM dose which she could then follow with testing to see if its any different.

It looks like its working, but is just not enough. Thats very similar to what we experienced, I don't think I got a single blue until we hit like 10u ???

or the larger dose not working could be infection,
or a ramp up of Growth hormone blocking insulin receptor sites on the cell walls.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

+5:318
it's crazy that it's the same numbers regarless of the dose. I could get a new vial of insulin, what are the chances that that's the problem, though? I've always kept it upright, refrigerated, kept clean in the original box, still looks ok- cloudy, no floaties in it. I agree that it works a little. He definitely comes down, just not enough. I have to go back and re-read all the posts again.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

before you go buy another vial...do try to big gulper dose claudia...let's just get that out of the way first.
if your friend blue is on pzi maybe she'd shoot her cat with your insulin to see how it works on blue's kitty.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

so what should we do? give it another 24hours to clear rebound? if you go up it would be best to do it in the amps since you'll be able to see charlie all day. not at night.
go to 4U..than 5U than 6U. 24 hours cycles. break thru to blue or keep on tryin.. till you get to 10U. talk also to angela and blackie. i can see if i can get her to post here.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20302

this thread is almost verbatum...but with lower doses...what we're doing with you.
i hope the whole thread comes up...it was back it july i think.
just read it, it does come up. be sure to read to end as it becomes almost funny at some point. if you don't laugh...you'll cry!
good news is blackie is doing terrific now.
pm'd angela to come on over and look at charlie.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

lori and tom said:
so what should we do? give it another 24hours to clear rebound? if you go up it would be best to do it in the amps since you'll be able to see charlie all day. not at night.
go to 4U..than 5U than 6U. 24 hours cycles. break thru to blue or keep on tryin.. till you get to 10U. talk also to angela and blackie. i can see if i can get her to post here.
Click to expand...


No. This evening is the 72 hour mark. It is weird nothing changed. No rise in numbers, no real decrease in numbers. If it is not the insulin, it is the dose.

Claudia is at 2.5 now, she could hang out at 2.5 tonight or even go to 3.0 pretty safely. Would she then be safe to up to 3.5 or 4.0 in the morning making for a full unit? Since ProZinc is a faster working insulin if the dose is way too low or resistance needs to break. We had to do that with Attie when he was on humilin N....he finally broke at 8u, then as he got better came back down.

I admit nailbite_smile with aggressive dosing, but sometimes it is needed. My aggressive dosing was 0.5u, but that was more my courage level too. :roll:

Claudia make sure you have some high carb food available and karo. Do you need feeding type syringe...I have some. Make sure you have plenty of test strips on hand too.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Prozinc is more stable than the other insulins but that doesn't mean she didn't get a bad vial, It could have been dropped or not refrigerated at the clinic or during shipping for that matter.

I wouldn't buy a new one, I would see if the clinic has an open bottle like Nancy said and would let her try theirs to see if there is any difference. If a different vial doesn't give different results then we know it's not the insulin, if it gives different results than the clinic should replace hers.

If I were closer I would run over and let her try mine. Maybe we have a Prozinc member near her that would be willing to donate a few units to our cause.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

+8:372
Nothing spectacular. If this experiment doesn't show improvement, should I gradually (1/2 u every 2 days or so) work back up to where I left off, or just jump back up to my last dose (4.2 u)? Once I get there, I'll try a high dose jump I guess of 1 u to see what happens. I'll do it on a day when we are home all day, and will only do an increase at the am shot since I'm not a night owl! I'm still reading thru that thread you posted, Lori. Thanks for that!
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

I posted to see if anyone in Cleveland is on prozinc. Otherwise I will call the vet tomorrow to see if they have an open one.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

claudia if you read the thread i sent you it was poor judgement to slowly work back up. go immediatly back up and then give it the seriouse increases. most of those folks are still here.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

i think it was joanna and bix who said she waited and it was a mistake.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

So back to 4 tomorrow morning? Unless something awesome happens at tonights pmps. I read thru that thread, interesting stuff. I wonder why a more gradual increase is a mistake? Just takes up precious time at too low a dose, or wastes insulin? Just wondering...
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

time. you already know something now. you had a dosing lesson. 4 units is my guess. i'm thinking he's spent enough time letting us know these doses are not enough. agree/disagree?
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Pmps:392, 2.5u
Weird how it keeps coming down...
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

ride it for awhile claudia...'your the one holding the syringe ' we always say. if you want to ride it out for awhile go for it. it's always your call in the end. i'm sure everyone agrees.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

I hear ya, but I'm not convinced that this was rebound. I think his liver would've gotten over the trauma by now, right? As long as he's still in the 400s tomorrow morning, I'll go up to 4u if it's agreed by the rest if you wonderful helpers!
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Claudia he is coming up on his last 12 hours of rebound watch this evening. I see you only shot the 2.5u. Unless he shakes out of these numbers tonight, he more than likely isn't going too.

Grab a test later tonight if you can and let's see where he is in the morning. ;-)
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Someone plugged me back in.

I would still like to see you check the insulin.

Any other think tank on why no change in bg's with the lowered dose?
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

ok, let's everyone put there 2 cents in and why on next dose.
i say 4 U because he's already shown that dose is not enough.
this of course is barring seeing any action tonight or in the am.
and by action i only mean a continueing line downward of numbers.
particularly mid-cycle.
next?
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

I'm pooped, so I won't get a true mid-cycle tonight, but I will try for a +4 (2 hours post-meal). I wish I found someone in Cleveland who uses prozinc, but no luck yet.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

+4 is fine...if there's action you will see it even there.
claudia, in case i have'nt told you...you are doing super terrific with all this. it's like you got thrown into the deep end of the pool. it's not this hard for everyone and you've been great.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Charliemeow, ProZinc isn't an insulin that lasts for 12 hours like the Lantus that I have my cat on. Unfortunately, and if you take a look at her SS, she had a hypoglycemic episode on June 22nd, due to very high carb wet food (Hill's Prescription W/D), complete with 8.00u BID. On ProZinc. I had to immediately switch her food that night to Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets, and immediately brought her unit down to 1u BID. Unfortunately, Blackie wasn't responding well to the ProZinc, despite the change in food. I could see that the doses were going to be increasing as time went on.

Taking a look at your SS, it appears to be reminiscent of what I've gone through with Blackie. It looks like that Charlie's not responding at all to the ProZinc. You COULD change his food to something with less carbs in it, and see if that works. The Fancy Feast that I have Blackie on has 3 in carbs, and it's quite good in the protein department (I forget what it is). The food is on Binky's old page:

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html

Don't get the fish ones, unless you decide to feed it to him once a week. Fish is very high in mercury.

IF that's not working for you, then you may need to switch insulins altogether. Sometimes, insulins that are specifically made for cats work well on some cats, but not all of them. Mine is in the small percentage of the cat insulins not working well on her. Unfortunately.

With regards to Charlie, bring him back up to 4u BID, change his food gradually, and hold that dose for about 6 cycles or more to give it a chance to work. If not, try increasing the dose again. If you don't see any improvement (#'s going down for instance), by about the 3rd increase in dosage, either the insulin isn't working (potency depletion like someone on here mentioned), or you may need to try a different type of insulin.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

+4:372
Thanks for stopping by with your input Angela. I'll increase back to 4u tomorrow (unless I get a great amps) unless I hear from someone that I shouldn't. It's been a long day. Thanks everyone for your help. Gonna get some sleep now!
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

thanks angela. claudia is charlie's mom. and claudia has a belly dweller and we really want to get charlie on some regulation before baby arrives. she also has a little girl too.
i suggest BOS...do you stand by that? just pump on thru...he may be a big gulper but we'll never know until we go there. i am so glad you will come on board with this as we have all been wracking our brains over this kitty not breaking thru.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Maybe next step here should be some IAA/Acro testing? That will take at least a week.

Blood should be taken on a Monday morning and shipped FedEx or UPS overnight [I think to Michigan State??] hopefully in an insulated container cooled on a frozen gel pack. Nancy has the details on that. I mention the Monday thing so maybe that might get integrated into the schedule.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

I see your point, gator, but unfortunately the blood tests are gonna have to wait a while. Dh got laid off and our budget is now cut to bare bones. It shouldn't last more than a month or two, but still tight times around the homestead.
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

I am also sorry to hear about your DH's job problem. I, too, am unemployed, and am looking but with 1 vehicle currently on the road, that's put a halt on my job searching for the time being. Hopefully next week I can start back up.

I wish your DH much luck in his search. :)

Congratulations on the belly dweller, too! When is he/she due?
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

The economy pretty much stinks. We're lucky that he is in a stable union and there is more work scheduled to start before the end of the year, but it's still so nervewracking! Sorry to hear you're in that boat, too. My baby is due in the end of April, so we still have time. I hope Charlie is regulated by then!
 
Re: 11/4 Charlie rebound check, day 3, +6.5:344, amps:432 2.

Unfortunately, some cats regulate pretty quickly, whereas others take much longer, perhaps even years. So, don't get your hopes up with trying to get him regulated any time soon.

Blackie was first diagnosed with diabetes on March 13th. I'm guessing that now I've got her pretty much regulated to a point. I'm still waiting on the day when she'll give me a magic # so that I can decrease her dose again. :)
 
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