11/3 SCRABBLE PMPS 402 :( dosing advice

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Michelle & Scrabble (GA)

Member Since 2010
YESTERDAY'S CONDO

AMPS 331 YUCK! Got home from work @3:20 am and had to stall the cats from eating so I could push the shot 1/2 hour for dst. Boy were they mad, they sat here and cried and Scrabble kept pawing me for an hour til I fed them while I was dozing off on the couch. Extremely tired tonight (long night at work) off to bed, will get a test when I get up. Hope his numbers will start improving soon!
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331

Morning Michelle & Scrabble, oh that's right, DST this weekend. I have to figure that out, have not done much yet. Scrabble, how about coming down today. Hope you get some good rest.
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331

Good morning. I'm sorry you had to work so late, and I hope you are getting a good back to bed in. Come down Scrabble, nice and easy.
If you wake up and the cats are missing, they might be over my house. I'll send them home by PMPS time.
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331

+4 271 still yuck! not sure why he is not coming down? guess the old pancrease hasn't gotten it's kickstart yet? How long do you think we should hold this dose if there continues to be no movement? Got my 4 hours of sleep now off to yoga after my coffee.
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331 +4 271

It can take 6 cycles to fill the shed w/ a dose increase, plus even though we take the time change slowly I think it can still effect their numbers when we adjust for DST ending. At least he is coming down after his shots.
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331 +4 271 +8 238

+8 238 Thanks Ann, I forget that it is a slow process and am hoping for a quick fix! Came home from yoga and couldn't find Scrabble, was having a fit, asked DH where he was, he didn't know. I opened the front door and there he was. Wanted to kill DH! Scrabble won't go far but I worry because we have bobcats and coyotes around. Anyway, off for a shower!
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE PMPS 402! Ugh

PMPS 402. OMG he has never been that high! I am kind of freaking, maybe it is due to the time change with the shots. If anyone can give me any insight I would appreciate it, just wondering how long I shold hold the new dose. Have to head off to work so no testing tonight but off Sunday and Monday. Hope things improve soon. Off to work.
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE AMPS 331 +4 271 +8 238

hummmmmm....I see you are now on a .5 dose. I don't really feel comfortable giving dose advise, especially since DLT is tonight. Hopefully the dose will start to work...but maybe you will need to increase it again. Are you checking for keytones? I think that would be a good idea at this point.

Also....when would you be able to do a curve? That may be a good idea to do soon also.

Come on down Scrabble! We don't like to see you that high!
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE PMPS 402 :(

Hi Michelle,
Here's a link to Marje's post in your condo two days ago, citing Jill's advice to Celi last summer:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=82303#p886655

If you have been on .5 of a unit for 4 cycles, perhaps you should increase again--to .75. Both Marje and Jill advise being aggressive in a situation similar to yours. Binks is OTJ again and got there pretty quickly.

Good luck! Get some sleep!

Ella & Rusty (Rusty doesn't like the time-change preparation either)
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE PMPS 402 :(

I will be able to test more this weekend to find out where his numbers are at. So sad right now that I am @ work worried about my boy :(. I would be more than willing to increase again in the morning if you guys think it will help, maybe it is the time change?
 
Re: 11/3 SCRABBLE PMPS 402 :(

Hi Michelle,

bummer on that pmps! It can take a while for a new dose to kick in. Mannie is such a slow processor when it comes to things like this. I have to be so patient. I can't remember how Scrabble did the first go around with dose changes. I too remember Binks and Celi's efforts to get him back to the Falls. The dosing was aggressive, as I remember. Normally one waits six cycles before increasing.

Come on down Scrabble, your bean is worried about you.
 
Michelle

I'm studying some SSs right now of cats that have come back from the Falls and looking through some info I have. I will BRB with a recommendation, ok? Sorry for the delay but I want to be sure I offer you the best options I can.
 
Michelle

I'm sorry he is still so high. It could be NDW. I know you want to get him down from where he is. When he was initially on insulin, his breakthrough dose was 1.75u but we've learned that cats can sometimes look a little different their second time around.

If you study Alex's SS for 2009, which Jill referenced and I have looked at many, many times, she held the initial dose for four cycles as you did and then she started raising every six cycles until Alex got into normal numbers. When Alex came out of remission, Jill started her at 0.5u. She made an interesting comment on the SS that IF she had used the formula we use for initial starting dose for newly diagnosed cats following TR, (.25u/kg of ideal weight), the starting dose would have been 1.375u. Alex reached her breakthrough dose at 1.5u.

I think taking him up again after four cycles is very aggressive. We don't know at what dose he will hit the breakthrough so the question is, how aggressive are you comfortable being? You've done this before but it's been a while. Do you think you could deal with quickly dropping numbers that might get quite low if the aggressive approach really works and he starts down? Can you stay up and monitor him if you increase him tomorrow morning and by tomorrow night he's turning out some low numbers?

I think there is not a right or wrong answer. It boils down to whether you feel equipped to handle a possible very active cycle so soon back into the FD dance or whether you need just a bit more time to feel comfortable with it all. You've already taken one good aggressive move and I applaud you doing so.

If he stays in these high, flat numbers, I would not let him go any more than six cycles and I'd be testing for ketones. Also, if you decide to go the very aggressive route and take him up .25u tomorrow, I would then stick with increasing every six cycles if you do not see any downward movement; in other words, I wouldn't use that more aggressive technique again. If he starts to get into blue numbers, start holding the dose a little longer...between 6 and 10 cycles.
 
Sounds good, I will see where he is at when I get home & I feel confident since I am off the next couple if days to take him up. If he is really high tonight I will increase & then see what happens.
 
hi michelle.

under normal circumstances i would agree with the recommendation to increase the dose to 0.75 unit. however, i have a little different perspective. imho, this isn't as much about a regular dose increase as it is a situation where the initial starting dose was set too low.

when alex returned from the falls the first time, i was a little gun shy about using an initial starting dose based on "ideal" weight. i started at 0.5u bid and quickly saw the starting dose was set too low. after 4 cycles at 0.5u i took the dose up to 1u bid. i knew she remained under dose, but since i had just switched from lantus to levemir i figured i should take it slow. as you can see on her 2009 ss, according to the weight based formula in the TR protocol, her initial starting dose should have been 1.357 units. as marje mentioned, 1.5u ended up being her break through dose.

if you're comfortable and since you're off and able to test the next couple of days, i would take the dose up to 1u bid tomorrow.

btw, what is scrabble's "ideal" weight?


fwiw: generally speaking, cats who have returned from the falls end up surpassing the highest dose they were on the first time around.
 
Scrabble was just weighed 2 weeks ago and he is 12.5 lbs, he has been around that weight for the last 2 years. Jill I totally respect your opinion and if you think 1 unit would work better than .75 I would certainly be willing to try. Thanks for your advice
 
"if" 12.5 pounds is his "ideal" weight, according to the protocol his initial starting dose would be 1.425 units.

if scrabble were mine and i had a few days off to monitor... i'd chalk this up to starting too low and take him up to 1u bid tomorrow.

jmo.
 
Michelle

I'm glad Jill jumped in with her thoughts. She "knows" you and Scrabble better; I tend to be aggressive with Gracie and I try to temper it with other members ;-)

Good luck with the dose increase!!! Go Scrabble....back to the Falls with you!
 
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