? 11/3 Markies Dose advise - Mom´s ok, Markies too :)

[Silvina]

Girls,
This is yesterday´s thread.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...s-to-help-ill-appreciate.186214/#post-2068388

I will tag those girls that have been helping me with Markies. I need to define Markies dose according to his ss. I will try to keep updating it a little longer. Hope to have the time. Things are little better with mom, thank the Lord!!!

To sumarize, Markies is dropping too fast, too much with this dose and then bounces. Before his nadir used to be at +8, now we have a fast nadir at +4 or so, and then he starts to go up and as I said he starts to bounce.

Some time ago his dose used to be much lower (his dose used to be 0.75, things happened, hospitalizations, gingivitis infections, etc then dose got to 1.25).

I feel today´s dose is too high (1.25). Some time we had scary low numbers even mild hypo episode, that I had to apply honey+pritein (very eartly in the cycle so it was difficult to bring numbers up).

Would like your oppinion on this. Please tagg anyone you want.

Thank you!!!

Silvi

@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey @April and Smokey @Chris & China @manxcat419 @Squalliesmom

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Silvi

I’m glad your mom is ok. I want to offer some comments but am on my way out. I do have some thoughts for you but don’t have time right this moment to post them. I will be back later to give you some ideas.

 

[Silvina]

Silvi

I’m glad your mom is ok. I want to offer some comments but am on my way out. I do have some thoughts for you but don’t have time right this moment to post them. I will be back later to give you some ideas.

hey !!! I was looking your name to tag you!!! how are you dear!! perfect dear, I will be here, don´t worry this is not an ER so we are ok, I will wait. Thank you!!!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Silvi

While there are places Markies could have easily gone lower and earned a reduction, it probably hasn’t happened in the last several cycles unless it happened today when you had to be gone with no testing. If he were mine, I’d continue with this dose but I’d try to get in as many tests as you can, especially from +4 to +9 or +10. I know you have a lot going on and need to be with your mom. Is it possible, at all, to take Markies with you when you go sit with your mom? I think we need to see what he does over the next cycle or two before we decide on dose. And then we also need to see how your mom is doing and how much you can test.

He has had a few dives but the way to prevent that is to feed him at regular times with regular amounts of food. Without knowing how you are feeding him, it becomes difficult to make suggestions as to how to stop the dives and bounces. When you have the time to read and absorb the information, I can tell you how to feed to try and flatten him a little bit but it’s a lot of info.

As I said the other day, we need to identify his onset, nadir, and duration but that’s a challenge to do without the time to test at the appropriate times. You might just have to continue to do the best you can with him right now since you need to focus on your mom.

 

[Silvina]

Silvi

While there are places Markies could have easily gone lower and earned a reduction, it probably hasn’t happened in the last several cycles unless it happened today when you had to be gone with no testing. If he were mine, I’d continue with this dose but I’d try to get in as many tests as you can, especially from +4 to +9 or +10. I know you have a lot going on and need to be with your mom. Is it possible, at all, to take Markies with you when you go sit with your mom? I think we need to see what he does over the next cycle or two before we decide on dose. And then we also need to see how your mom is doing and how much you can test.

He has had a few dives but the way to prevent that is to feed him at regular times with regular amounts of food. Without knowing how you are feeding him, it becomes difficult to make suggestions as to how to stop the dives and bounces. When you have the time to read and absorb the information, I can tell you how to feed to try and flatten him a little bit but it’s a lot of info.

As I said the other day, we need to identify his onset, nadir, and duration but that’s a challenge to do without the time to test at the appropriate times. You might just have to continue to do the best you can with him right now since you need to focus on your mom.

Dear, he usually has about 4 to 5 meals. Only raw. Usually chicken, meat, liver, or Dr. Pierson´s pate, pork, etc. (chunks). Some times a chicken thigs, etc.. When he is little low he eats canned whiskas.
If at shot time his number is above 300 I try to wait 1 hour to feed. I also feed him bone broth (Dr. Karen Becker bone broth).

Also (not so much) egg yolk.

 

[Silvina]

Im pretty good with food. I follow
http://feline-nutrition.org/
http://catcentric.org/
http://catinfo.org/
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/videos.aspx

and also administer a raw feeding group in Argentina.

 

[Silvina]

when Markies is starving when his numbers are very high at shot time I give him chicken broth, then an hour later I feed him food.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Just curious why you wait to feed him when he’s high?

One thing that helps curves is consistent feeding. While the a.m. cycle and the p.m. cycle might be different and you might want to feed at different times from a.m. to p.m. to address the curve, you should always feed consistently at the same times in the a.m. cycle and consistently in the p.m. cycle. The caveat is if he’s dropping low and you need to stop him or bring him up. At that time, he will need other feedings of carbs you don’t normally use.

Does he eat 4 to 5 meals per cycle or 4 to 5 meals a day? Are you balancing his raw meat with a supplement because he shouldn’t just have raw meat with no supplements to balance it. I’m assuming if you read Dr. Becker (I’m a big fan) and Dr. Lisa, you already know that raw meat without supplements is not a balanced diet for cats.

I know you have limited time, but it does help us figure out what’s going on if we know when he was fed, what % carbs he was fed, and how much he was fed. If there is anyway you have the chance to put that info in the “Remarks” column, it helps us immensely. I am trying to not ask too much because I know the priority has to be your mama and you are stretched thin taking care of her, taking care of Markies, and working.

 

[Silvina]

Just curious why you wait to feed him when he’s high?

One thing that helps curves is consistent
feeding. While the a.m. cycle and the p.m. cycle might be different and you might want to feed at different times from a.m. to p.m. to address the curve, you should always feed consistently at the same times in the a.m. cycle and consistently in the p.m. cycle. The caveat is if he’s dropping low and you need to stop him or bring him up. At that time, he will need other feedings of carbs you don’t normally use.

Does he eat 4 to 5 meals per cycle or 4 to 5 meals a day? Are you balancing his raw meat with a supplement because he shouldn’t just have raw meat with no supplements to balance it. I’m assuming if you read Dr. Becker (I’m a big fan) and Dr. Lisa, you already know that raw meat without supplements is not a balanced diet for cats.

I know you have limited time, but it does help us figure out what’s going on if we know when he was fed, what % carbs he was fed, and how much he was fed. If there is anyway you have the chance to put that info in the “Remarks” column, it helps us immensely. I am trying to not ask too much because I know the priority has to be your mama and you are stretched thin taking care of her, taking care of Markies, and working.

Thank you dear for taking all this time in us.
Here are my answers. I usually wait to feed first of all because I remember that I was told to do that when numbers were high (that I could wait to +1), but also because that helps him not to make his BG keep going up when its already high...

Markies, although he eats totally zero carbs, he usually increases his BG after eating pretty much (specially when he is already in high numbers).. that´s why I usually give him broth.. it´s not exactly broth, its soup which as some chicken pieces (like strings since this soup takes many hours to cook, its a chicken-bone broth.). So he actually eats some chicken it´,s not only water or broth. But this helps him hidrate. I never did as I used to at the very beginning subcutaneous fluids. So I try to hydrate him with this soups.

I can write in the ss when I feed him but its kind of difficult to writ how much since I dont have a scale that can exactly tell this little. And about supplements, I actually follow more than Dr. Pierson, another type of diet which is named franken prey which inludes bones, little of skin, little of fat, organs, etc... but besides this I some times I do prepare those pate style with supplements (home made with supplements, taurine, vitamine e, fish oil, etc). So Im ok with that. He has a good diet fortunatelly that is I think the only thing I might be doing pretty well (I gess).

But time and my own life style, having my other cats, mom, etc.. makes it very difficult for me to meassure exactly how much he eats. Thats something that I have in my "to do list" for a long time. Actually markies is a little overweight. So he should be eating less and he is not exercising. I should catificate my house, I would love to have some places for them to climb etc... but for now this is what I can do.

Today I bought a whole chicken with the intention of making a paté tomorrow with all supplements and I will use the new food processor for the first time (which grinds chicken bones for example carcasses or necks).

Last think, about feeding at the same time, its impossible. Every day is a different schedule, I may wake up in a different house, I may go to a doctor, I just cannot follow much routines. Fortunatelly I can follow pretty good the insulin routine bacause its a late hour shooting time but food is difficult to set on a schedule.

Les see he ate yesterday 8am-3 pm-8pm-00am-3am

 

[Silvina]

@Marje and Gracie dear look whenever you can how is our ss changin.
Now wer are having late nadir and late onset as now. We are +1.5 and BG is still going up. He didn´t eat yet but not because of anything special but because I was working at the computer and I tested him. He went from 301 to 313. Not much but increasing.

I feel safer feeding him his soups at the beginning of the cycles (now going to the previous conversation about food) then meat, and as for his numbers I see that they are settling down. And seems more like a Levemir spread sheet now.

 

[Silvina]

well, now Im not understanding.... not moving from pinks...

I don´t think it was a fur shot... I realize when It is...

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Silvi

Because you shot early on 11/3 and we don’t know where he went that day, I think you should see what he does during the 11/6 a.m. cycle. If he does not come down quite a bit into low Blue and you can get tests in, I would raise the dose to 1.5u if it were me.

With a Levemir curve, you would expect the BG to rise at +1, +2 because he’s not going to onset until +4 and the previous shot should be waning around +1, +2. As the dose gets better, the nadir should move a little more to the right where it should be.