11/3 Hoot PMPS 108 +1/124, +2/111, +4/92, +10/67, +11/51

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Pam & Hoot

Pam & Hoot

Member Since 2012
11/2 Condo

Recap:
0.10u
AMPS - 137
+1 - 96
+2 - 75
+6 - 75
+12 - 62
PMPS - 68
+1 - 52
+1.75 - 47
+2.5 - 70
+4.75 - 81
+10.25 - 98
+11 - 89

Good morning LL! Hoot decided to keep me up a little lastnight ~O) but thats ok, it's one step closer to you know what :-D (I don't want to say it for fear I'll jinx it) :lol: nailbite_smile :lol: ) I hope all of you have a wonderful weekend ;-)
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103

Nice chant Rhiannon. I'll second that. Go Hoot GO :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103

Great work last night and CONGRATULATIONS on the reduction!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103

Ann & Tess said:
Great work last night and CONGRATULATIONS on the reduction!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Thanks Ann! I hope I can reduce now. He had to drop below 50, 3 times before he earned his reducie.....He just did. I had a feeling after lastnight he would do this today. Now I just need someone to actually tell me whats next.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40

??? Since Hoot is newly Dx why the three times under 40, that is usually for cats that are long term of don't hold reductions well. Or is it because you are so close to uh, … you know what. ;-) Have you practiced shaving off the .1u to see if you can get an interim dose?
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40

Ann & Tess said:
??? Since Hoot is newly Dx why the three times under 40, that is usually for cats that are long term of don't hold reductions well. Or is it because you are so close to uh, … you know what. ;-) Have you practiced shaving off the .1u to see if you can get an interim dose?
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Sienna had said that theres a variation on the Protocol that they should drop 3 times between 40 + 49 before they reduce. I was just assuming that it was for the "You know what" I have not practiced shaving off the .1u. I but I will. I did play around with the dose (water) the other night to see actually how much was coming out...BOY, not alot! But I do think I can shave if I need to.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

The 3 times below 40 IS for older dx'd cats - Hoot should be able to take them for once under 50! This definitely calls for a decrease!! Go HootBaby Go!

HUGS PAM!!! I know you're SO tired about now....
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

I would practice 1 drop, in case that is the next advised dose.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

Squeaky and KT said:
The 3 times below 40 IS for older dx'd cats - Hoot should be able to take them for once under 50! This definitely calls for a decrease!! Go HootBaby Go!

HUGS PAM!!! I know you're SO tired about now....
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Oh my gosh I...we are, and he has been such a trooper cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

The 3 times below 50 is NOT just for longer term diabetics. It is the standard TR protocol used by the Lantus board in Germany. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd provide the link. Hoot was needing to be a bit greener, hence my suggestion to use that particular approach. Shooting a smaller dose like Dyana suggested is fine ( IMHO).
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

Sienne and Gabby said:
The 3 times below 50 is NOT just for longer term diabetics. It is the standard TR protocol used by the Lantus board in Germany. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd provide the link. Hoot was needing to be a bit greener, hence my suggestion to use that particular approach. Shooting a smaller dose like Dyana suggested is fine ( IMHO).
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I'm sorry Sienne, I must have read it wrong...everywhere I had printed says what I mentioned above. Pam - Sienne's FORGOTTEN more than I'll EVER know!
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, +5.75

Squeaky and KT said:
Sienne and Gabby said:
The 3 times below 50 is NOT just for longer term diabetics. It is the standard TR protocol used by the Lantus board in Germany. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd provide the link. Hoot was needing to be a bit greener, hence my suggestion to use that particular approach. Shooting a smaller dose like Dyana suggested is fine ( IMHO).
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Sienne, I must have read it wrong...everywhere I had printed says what I mentioned above. Pam - Sienne's FORGOTTEN more than I'll EVER know!
Click to expand...
Absolutely not a problem! We all only have one objective in mind and thats to get our babies well whatever it takes. Us rookies could never do this without "all" of your's knowledge and wisdom and I appreciate it more than I can say ♥ But now I'm still unsure of what to do...do I give the shaved shot untill he drops below 50, 1 or 3 more times, if I give the shaved shot at all. I'm sorry, I just want to get this right.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103, +1.25/40, +1.75/46, ++2.25/62, Now w

Lyresa sent me a PM asking for some clarification since she was understandably concerned about Hoot's safety. I indicated I'd post my reply to here here since if she was unclear, others may be as well.

in principle, you're correct. However, if you look at Hoot's SS, there are still a lot of numbers outside of the normal BG range. To keep dropping the dose and then suggest an OTJ trial would, in all likelihood not result in a successful trial. By suggesting that she follow the German Lantus board's protocol, it will keep Hoot on insulin longer and provide the needed support for a clearly healing pancreas.

I'm not suggesting that Hoot drop into the 30s. No matter which variation on the protocol you're following, numbers in the 30 get an immediate reduction. What I suggested to Pam is that she allow Hoot to drop three times into the 40 - 49 range.

The hardest thing to do at times is to suggest a deviation from the "standard" LL protocol. The German board has a great deal of experience -- they existed before LL. The Roomp of Roomp & Rand, who published the TR protocol, is from the German board.
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We want any kitty that's going to attempt an OTJ trial (anti-jink) to have the greatest chance at success. Hoot's SS is beginning to look VERY green. (Just the way it should!!) At the time I made the suggestion to Pam to use the 3 times below 50 approach, there was a lot more blue and more blue that was above 120. My goal was to get the numbers into a solid, normal range. Given that measuring a dose that's less than 0.1u is pretty difficult, it seemed at least to me, that the approach used in the TR protocol that I linked would be a good option.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103,+1.25/40,+1.75/46,+2.25/62, +5.75/63

Looking good Hoot, way to work that juice :mrgreen: Thanks Sienne for elaborating on this approach to working more of the blue out of Hoot's numbers, makes sense to get more green under his belt before the next step (anti-jinx). Pam, Great job handling the low numbers as tired as you must be. :-D
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103+1.25/40+1.75/46+2.25/62+5.75/63+9/91

Pam sent me a PM noting that she was confused about what to do. I just went back and read and I don't believe that Dyana was saying to reduce to 1 drop (or "some" insulin). She indicated that this would be the next dose.

I think there's a choice here and I don't believe that either choice is a bad decision.
  • You can stick with the 3 times in the 40 - 49 range or
  • You can reduce to 1 drop.
The 3 times below 50 is a more aggressive approach. It also means that you need to be monitoring closely -- much like you're already doing. That's a good deal of stress and strain on the caregiver. It may also be that having held the dose last night did the trick. As I noted, Hoot's SS is very green.

One could argue that the 40 is a pretty good indication that Hoot is done with this dose. It was an impressive drop between AMPS and +1.25. Having gone over Hoot's SS and seeing that you were giving HC early in the cycle (and apparently a good amount of HC) and there's no apparent bounce, all of this argues in favor of dropping the dose.

There's also the intangible factor. Did you feel like you were working hard to keep Hoot's numbers up this morning? That's something that none of us can assess. You're the one in the room with your kitty. If the answer to that is, "Yes." then I'd suggest reducing. I think that Ann and Lyresa may have been alluding to the idea that some cats decide that they are on a mission. Often, there's not much we can do wrong. I have a funny feeling that Hoot's on a mission and there are no bad choices here. However, the decision is yours.
 
Re: 11/3 Hoot AMPS 103+1.25/40+1.75/46+2.25/62+5.75/63+9/91

Pam

I agree with Sienne. He's been in the 40s twice attributable to this dose. The TR protocol used by the German Katzen Forum states three times between 40 and 50 on separate days.

So...as Sienne said, you can wait for that third time down on a different day (which is more aggressive) or you can decrease to a drop tonight.

I also agree he is on a mission :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
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