11/27 Mikey AMPS 360+10/344 PMPS 396 +5/407 +9/310

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224

might be a good idea to edit the subject line of your first post and add "dose increase?" to it. that'll get more feedback for you.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224

Hi Jen....sorry...Sunday morning and I love to have coffee in bed with the kitters and the paper and this morning.....DH, too!!! :-D :-D

Let's see what he does this cycle....he's headed down and maybe will get into blue. I'm pretty tempted to have you raise his dose by .25u if he doesn't do anything today. I want to get Sienne's eyes
on his SS, too. Never hurts to have more than one set of eyes on it. It's possible he's bouncing off blues and if he is, then he needs a couple more cycles to clear. BUT I actually think he needs more
insulin.

I'll get Sienne to check it out for you, too, and see what she thinks.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 Dose Increase Needed?

I don't remember the last time I was able to lay in bed. Someone always wakes me up around 5am (usually my black cat, Mani) and then a few others will chime in. They don't care if its' Sunday :lol: I should take a picture of how we sleep. Just about all of them (usually between 9-11) are in bed with us and it's only a queen. I would love to lay with them longer but if I don't clean early my pee-ers will find other places to pee ;-)

I will wait to see what Sienne's reply is but I added to the subject line as Julie suggested just to see what others might say. Is it bad to have to increase his insulin? When I say "bad" I mean will that prevent him from going OTJ?
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 Dose Increase Needed?

I will wait to see what Sienne's reply is but I added to the subject line as Julie suggested just to see what others might say. Is it bad to have to increase his insulin? When I say "bad" I mean will that prevent him from going OTJ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Mikey is going to need time to "heal". The insulin you are giving him is replacing the insulin his pancreas can't produce yet. But raising the dose is not going to stop him from going OTJ. Bob was on PZI, not Lantus. He started at 1u BID and went all the way up to 4u BID. At that point, he started to heal. 4-5 weeks later he went OTJ and his last shot was .25u.

As long as your data indicates an increase is the way to go, it isn't "bad". It just "is".

Carl
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 Dose Increase Needed?

I also PM'd Sienne to take a look at Mikey's SS.

No...it is not bad to have to increase and it doesn't mean he won't go OTJ. Sometimes we have to go up to come down. It is not uncommon to see a kitty come quickly down the dosing scale only to stall and to have to go back up and then they come down again and go OTJ. A great example of this is Libby's Lucy. (Libby and Lucy). Her SS is really interesting if you get a chance to look at it....very bouncy girl; Libby almost got her OTJ and then she stalled; Libby had to go way back up and then Lucy came down and went OTJ.

I'm sure Sienne will want to see how this cycle plays out and to have you post a +11 but if he doesn't do anything today, IMHO, he needs more juice. No worries ;-)
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 Dose Increase Needed?

Sienne said to see what he does today. If he clears these bouncy numbers today, we won't increase. But if he doesn't, she thinks he needs another 24 hours to clear a bounce from the blues on 11/25.

So...hopefully he'll come down today. A +6 and +11 would be great. Have a great day!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 Dose Increase Needed?

Binks went up and down the dosing ladder again & again like a fool....

but healing is what it takes!

celi
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

HELP! I just tested him at +6 (5pm) and BG was 53?!! Is it possible it's an error? How do I know? I was totally not expecting that?
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Jennifer,

Please get another test....anytime you think the test may not be accurate, just retest. Don't panic, this is a very nice number!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Give a teaspoon of food....HC....little karo...drop....retest in 15 or 20 minutes....you will need to continue to test every 15 - 20 minutes to see that the numbers are coming up.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Just seeing this...

You can try retesting. Have you done that?

Do you have high carb food in the house, just in case?

I would test again now, if you haven't already done that, and then again in half an hour to see whether it's stabilizing or continuing to drop.

Why? Maybe Mikey is starting to respond to the insulin! :-D

ETA: Didn't see that other smarter answers had already come in! Yes, test every 15-20 minutes, not every 30 (silly me). :-D
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59

Laurie,
I just tested him again BG was 59. Same ear and I had started to give him food (because I was going to feed him anyway) is that ok?
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Well, this is exciting!
You're okay Jenn, and looks like you are getting plenty of eyes watching. Like Laurie said "Don't panic"!
Higher carb gravy food, in small amounts, is better than a quick dose of karo. Small spoonful, then test again in a few minutes.

Best thing to do when you see any number, high or low, that just doesn't "seem to fit" is take another test right away. All sorts of reasons with the meter and strip where one test can really be an "error".

Carl
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

I just gave him his regular food but have the HC and karo in the room with him. He has been so high so I was totally not expecting this. I was just discussing with Marje today about possible insulin increase because his #'s were so high.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

That's good, you can give him some food, but don't give him a lot...a teaspoon or two, ok? We don't want him to get too full to eat if we need to feed him to bring him up. Please get another test in 30 minutes, ok? I'll be watching for it.

This is good! :smile:
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Ideally, for future reference, you don't want to feed, because then you don't know whether the test reflects a food spike, or if Mikey is coming up on his own.

You would also, when it IS time to feed, feed only a very small amount. If a cat is dropping, you want to be sure he/she is hungry enough to keep eating as you need it to do, if numbers go very low.

For a newly diagnosed cat, a BG below 50 would be a dose reduction. So below 50, it's okay to feed, because the cat has "nothing to prove." Dose reduction has been earned.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

I didn't give him too much but he is starving. When I went back into the room (i am very close, it's only an 800 sq. foot apartment but I feed him in the bathroom so as not to be bothered by the other cats) he was trying to get the can with the remainder of the food. I took it out. I will get a test in 30minutes (5:45my time)

***not sure if this matters but i fed him the salmon flavored and though he ate it he did spit it up this morning (and the color looks SOOOO fake to me) so I swithced to Liver and Chicken at 11am w/ shot. then I gave him 1 wellness treat w/ his +2
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Here I was just sitting down getting ready to do some work. Thought he's been so "high" i'll have an easy night. I guess that's what I get for wanting to relax :lol: :lol: :lol:

I pulled out the copy I have of how to treat for hypos and it said to give food. I didn't realize a LOW # was 40 and under to me when I saw 53 compared to what he has been at I got so scared. Now I know for future reference!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

It's not unusual for them to get hungry when they get lowish....that's a good thing, then you know he will feed his lows! I'm not sure if the food made a difference (you changed his food?), he may have been bouncing and the bounce cleared. He saw a good sized drop at +2, that is often a signal that an active cycle is ahead.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

I just changed the flavor, from salmon (6% carb 257calories) to liver and chicken (7%carb 295 calories) The salmon looked too artificial to me and he threw it up this morning.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53 +6.5/73

BG 73 +6.5. And he's good. resting in his favorite spot on his blanket. Nothing unusual that i can see.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Wow...Mikey!!!! Guess you want no dosecrease. Now you see, Jennifer, why we wait and see what happens the rest of the cycle.

Great job....breathe.....Laurie has you covered!!!!

If the 911 is still up, you can take it off....you have lots of eyes here.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

You are doing great.

Has Mikey thrown up the salmon before? My Kitty loves the fish but can never keep it down; some cats are sensitive to it.

Also for future reference, I think you might not want to make the liver-based food his primary food. Someone else may be able to say more, but I remember reading that too much liver isn't good as a staple.

However, for right now - Mikey should be around nadir and may come up soon. Keep testing until he does. This is GOOD!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

That's fine, I'm glad you held off on the HC....often just a little regular food helps them surf around the same number, or up a little. Is he still hungry? You could give him a bit more food if this is a normal feeding time for him. I would get another test in another 30 minutes, just in case he decides to drop back down.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

Nice on the 73....keep breathing. He's totally fine!! GREAT JOB, Jennifer!!!!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

He's only had the salmon for a few days. I bought cases of food, different flavors because I didn't know what he would like. The first I tried was supreme supper (i should have stayed with that) You may be right about the liver. "organ" food is fatty I know for humans.

He seems very content right now. I will get another test in 30 (+7, 6:15 my time)
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53

Some kitties are sensitive to certain foods. One of my kitties can't tolerate some of the fishy flavors, she's prone to pukus also....and she's a projectile puker, so I avoid that at all costs! :shock:

As Kathy said, feeding liver can be a problem if you feed it very often....it's high in Vitamin A. I feed it once in a while, no more than twice a week, but I'm not sure what is considered "too often".

Oh, BTW.....no increase for now. :mrgreen: :lol:

ETA: I'll check back at 6:15, you are doing great Jennifer!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

Jennifer: this is MY BAD!!! You got the +2 and it was alot lower than AMPS and I should have had you checking him more during the day. I am very sorry.....I got wrapped around the dose discussion and I should have told you to be sure and get a +4. By the time I thought of what to have you test, it was already Mikey's +5.

So......lesson learned!! If his +2 is not close to the same as his AMPS, be sure and monitor more often. I think I mentioned that the other day BUT you have had alot of info thrown at you in a short time and I should have told you this morning to be sure and check him at +4 when we were discussing dose.

My sincere apologies.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

I stocked up at Petsmart on Friday (my only Black Friday shopping) and figured whatever he didn't like I can switch it out. Just couldn't beat the price $0.30/can. I will bring the salmon and liver back and stick with the others.

I have a few projectile pukers. Not only projectile but they get as high as they can and then puke. So it lands all over, sorry, too much info. Luckily for me I love to clean.

Yeah, Laurie, I figured no increase :lol: and what's another night of not sleeping
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

Marje,
it's funny that you say that because I was going to test him sooner but then I read somewhere the most important times to test were +1,+2, +10, +11 and the less important were +4,+5,+8,+9. That's why I waited until +6 I felt like it had to be done at some point and +6, +7 weren't mentioned so I just did the +6. I'm not sure where I read that, though. I have spent the whole early morning reading so many stickies and condo/threads.

But like you said "lesson learned", now I know. ;-)
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

Marje,

Would it be the same for +2 after PMPS?
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

Ok. BG is 83 @ +7. How do I add the +6.5/73 into the SS?

Do I need to keep testing every 30 minutes? or every hour?

Marje,
I had to start my own notebook because I have been writing so much stuff down. I'm sure you did mention it but it's hard for me to remember in what condo to look for things. So now I've been writing down critical points and printing out some of the stickies and links. I'll get a binder and put it together so I can use it for reference. I like a paper trail. Somehow I've managed to erase the notes in the SS twice so now I write it down to have a back up.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

Yes....any time your +2 is not fairly close to your Preshot, you should be extra vigilant. If it's a high PS, like today, I normally would use 50 mg/dl less on the +2 to be extra vigilant. But if it's a low PS, I'd get a +1 and +2 and then decide how much you need to test.

In regard to a PS number, you need to be very careful of shooting dropping numbers especially if they are below, say 200, for Mikey right now. A dropping number is one that occurs when a kitty is clearing a bounce and it would be the lowest number of the day. That's when you need to be cautious. What makes it even more complicated is kitties (like Atlas) who like to nadir at +12. That's not really common but it can happen.

What you might see sometimes is Mikey coming down all day, then going up a bit at/after mid-cycle and then coming DOWN again around +10/+11. If he does that and the number is not less than his nadir, then he is getting a second lantus dip which is normal. It isn't the same as a dropping number.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73

Anytime your +2 is significantly lower than your PS number, you want to test again sooner rather than later. That is a sign that an active cycle may be ahead. Remember, a typical Lantus curve has a PS and +2 that are similar....a lower +2 is saying, "Pay attention!"

This is fine, he's on his way back up. I would test in an hour. If he's still up or going higher, you can wait until +11 to test again after that IMHO. I'll check back in an hour.

You did great, Jennifer. I'm glad to see the green numbers, go Mikey! :mrgreen:

I also keep a notebook....it's a good idea for backup. As far as writing things down, please remember that the stickies are your best guide. I have seen some suggestions on LL lately that are not in keeping with the stickies....whenever you see a discrepency, I would follow the stickies.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

As Laurie said, you can test in an hour.

Look at Gracie's SS on 11/23 am cycle +8. It will show you what it looks like when you add another number on the half hour.

To do it,just click in that box like you would to put a number there, put a colon after the first number, space and put 73 @ 6.5.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

Ok. I will test in an hour +8.5 (7:15pm)

I'm wanting to understand but I'm a little confused. Can you tell me from on his SS what his Nadir has been or can you not because I haven't really been getting +6? I know the past few days we were talking about getting different +'s to get an idea of his numbers at different times in the day. When is the cycle from? It took me a while to realize that my day "starts" at 10:50 even though I'm up 6 hours before. So is the cycle from AMPS to PMPS or AMPS to AMPS?

Marje,
When you said "
If it's a high PS, like today, I normally would use 50 mg/dl less on the +2 to be extra vigilant
Click to expand...
Did you mean at 11am you would have shot less insulin? I shot 1.5u so how much would 50mg/dl less be?
At my AMPS and PMPS if he is under 200 I should stall?
I have to really work on understanding the dropping numbers, bounces and Lantus dips. It's like a foreign language to me.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

Well now! You had an exciting day.

Jenniver & Mikey said:
I read somewhere the most important times to test were +1,+2, +10, +11 and the less important were +4,+5,+8,+9.
Click to expand...
That statement is relative. For a lot of cats, the +1 reflects a food spike. I like a +2 for the reasons Marje and Laurie noted. That said, Gabby is a cat that dives early so I routinely test at +1, +2 and +3. Her nadir is often early -- at +3 or +4.

What's important is to get spot checks at various times. You will get a good idea of when Mikey's onset and nadir are. Just keep in mind that nadir is not always ant +6 and it can move from cycle to cycle or day to day.

You will figure out what are the best times to test for your cat. In addition, Mikey will give you signals -- like today when he was wanting food. Those are times to test.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +2/224 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83

When is the cycle from? It took me a while to realize that my day "starts" at 10:50 even though I'm up 6 hours before. So is the cycle from AMPS to PMPS or AMPS to AMPS?
Click to expand...

A cycle is 12 hours so you have two 12-hour cycles/day. You shoot him at 11am/11pm. 11am-11pm is one cycle (the AM cycle) and 11pm-11am is his second (PM) cycle.


Marje,
When you said "If it's a high PS, like today, I normally would use 50 mg/dl less on the +2 to be extra vigilantDid you mean at 11am you would have shot less insulin? I shot 1.5u so how much would 50mg/dl less be?
At my AMPS and PMPS if he is under 200 I should stall?
I have to really work on understanding the dropping numbers, bounces and Lantus dips. It's like a foreign language to me.
Click to expand...

Sorry....please let me clarify. His preshot today was high...360. So what I was saying was that if his +2 was 50 mg/dl less (say 310), then I would have checked him at +4 until you get used to Mikey's curves. In reality, 310 is within the 20% meter variance of 360. So....look at his PS number, if it is more than the 20% variance at high numbers at +2, then test sooner (+4) rather than later (+6). And to further answer your question, no....don't change the dose. ;-) The "mg/dl" refers to the BG measurement.
Example: You get 300 at PS. At +2, he's at 275.....I would consider that to be pretty close to his PS with meter variance and would not necessarily expect him to get really low. But let's say he's 300 at PS and 200 at +2. That is alot more than the 20% meter variance...you need to be really vigilant. Today, at 360...20% meter variance would have been about 290. So anything below that (as he was) and we I should have had you check him at +4.

You have been shooting in the 140s.....you don't need to stall unless his BG is dropping. My reference to asking for help if he's under 200 is if he has been dropping all cycle long. Mikey hasn't done that yet....he's been coming up towards the end of his cycle. So, as an example, let's say today he started at PS 360, +2, 224, +4, 200, +6 180, +10 160 +12 120......... that's an example of a dropping cycle when you would want to stall, post, and ask for assistance. Compare that to: PS 360, +2 224 +4 200 +6 180 +10 150 +12 175 he's come back up at the end of his cycle....ok to shoot without stalling because you've shot lower than that before.

Does that help??

We can keep helping you with terminology as we go.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100

Thanks, Marje, got it now I understand.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: Never worry about asking us to clarify. It's ALOT of material!! You are doing super!!!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6/53/59 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100

Gather data, pay attention to the difference between the PS and +2, and post for help if your PS is lower than you have shot to this point. When you see lower numbers like today, post for help, just like you did. As people walk you through the situations, it will start to make more sense, and you will start to know what to do. You don't have to learn everything in one day...or one week. ;-)

Mikey is rising, I think you can hold off on testing now until +11. Don't be surprised if he is quite high by then...he most likely will bounce from the pretty green numbers. If that happens, just shoot the 1.5u dose on time, no worries. Don't forget to keep getting ketone tests, especially when his numbers are high....we don't want the ketones to creep up on you.
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100 +10/344

So we're back in the pink. BG 344 at +11
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100 +10/344

Sorry about the pink, but it's not surprising...if he was bouncing from blues, you know he's going to bounce from greens! ;-) The good news is that his liver is doing it's job....protecting him from a perceived hypo (even though he was in normal range), AND if he got to green once, he'll get there again. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

Nice work today....you got your first taste of green and handled it beautifully! :-D
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100 +10/344

Don't be too upset with that pink number. It probably would have happened even if you had caught him at +4. It's not unusual for them to zoom zoom up.

I agree...you did everything great today. You're a good mamabean trying to learn everything as quickly as possible and asking good questions.

Looks like it will prolly be a quiet night tonight for you, DF, and Mikey!
 
Re: 11/27 Mikey AMPS 360 +6.5/73 +7/83 +8/100 +10/344

So I'm going to do PMPS shoot 1.5 (as long as PMPS is ok) feed him and then do a +1 or +2 or both? Then when is the next test?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top