11/25 Twice PMPS 112 +1 103 +2 92

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Kim & Twice

Kim & Twice

Member Since 2013
Yesterday

I'm thinking that with all the grand manipulation of last nights numbers and the fact that Twice decided to go into the shallow end for AMPS at the end of it all, this dose may be too much for him right now? His number is dropping, but I am stalling for 20 min. Obviously if it is lower at that time I will need to intervene with food. But when the heck would he get his shot? I am home today and tomorrow, so mucking up the time may be fixable :smile:

ETA Holding @ +:20
 
Re: 11/25 Twice AMPS 50-dropping, stalling

Hey Kim-

I only saw bits and pieces of yesterday's condo, and I have to head BTB (I'm barely awake at the moment), but WOW on this AMPS! I'd definitely be cautious about shooting, especially if he "officially" goes below 50. Stalling can be a double-edged sword...sometimes they'll keep dropping during a stall simply because they do need food, and of course you don't really want to be shooting a food-influenced number, because you could end up with a bigger drop once the juice kicks and and the food wears off.

If you decide to skip this morning, you can easily "reset" back to Twice's regular shot time this evening. (If he does drop below 50, I would strongly recommend skipping, especially if you're not going to be around to test.) Or, you can consider a reduced dose for this cycle; I did that with Trix a few weeks back when she was crazy low, too, but I was also around to monitor closely.

I know, that's probably not much help! I'll be watching for updates...you are a bean-extraordinaire!!!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice AMPS 50-dropping, stalling

Hi Kim,

I see Twice kept you busy last night. I agree the dose might be a little too strong for Twice with all that feeding. Will you be home today? I see that window installers are coming. I would skip if I could not monitor. I might skip even if I was home in this case because he is at 50 and could be dropping still.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice AMPS 50-dropping, stalling

Good luck with whatever you decide. It looks like skipping may be an option if you won't be home today to monitor or if stalling too long will throw your shot time off and you can't get back on track easily.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice +11.5 58 AMPS 50 (50)-dropping, stalling

Hi Kim,

Wow, on that dropping 50. You have some good advice already. Main thing is to keep our babies safe. Good luck on whatever you decide. Twice is a kitty on a mission.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice +11.5 58 AMPS 50(50)(47)-dropping, stalling

I'm going to hope that he starts to rise within the 1 1/2hour mark and a couple tests confirm a steady increase, so I am not too terribly far off schedule. I don't want to have to skip and lose this momentum. C'mon Twice, time to get up pal.

ETA: +:35=47 And I guess that answers that! Fed some HC
+13=68 Fed some lc
 
Re: 11/25 Twice +11.5 58 AMPS 50(50)(47)(68)

Morning Kim ~O) ~O) ~O)

WOW, and busy morning for you. Good luck with your decision on shooting. Just remember that you now have food on board, and the numbers are food influenced. The possibility does exist that if you skip that the shed will carry you and Twice through until tonight's shot, and then you can be back on schedule, without much loss on momentum. safety first. Good luck!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice +11.5 58 AMPS 50(50)(47)(68)

That's a very good point Michelle, thank you. I may just end up skipping after all, or a reduced dose...I need coffee to figure out what I want to do here...Elsa? ;-) ;-)

ETA: 81 @13.5- Twice does seem to spike a bit during the morning cycle, but drops in the evening. If this was the evening cycle I would be confident to shoot even with food on board....too late now so skipping
 
Re: 11/25 Twice +11.5 58 AMPS 50(50)(47)(68)

Good morning, Kim. Coffee coming right up - ~O) ~O) ~O) ~O)

I think skipping may be the best option. You have very low numbers to start with which are now food influenced and have window installers coming today. It may not be feasible to monitor him as well as you want to in order to keep him safe. The safest thing may be to let the shed drain and shoot this evening.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Hi Kim - good decision I think. I dealt with this schedule issue with Mannie too: I too was gone for 11 hours in the morning for work, it was always such a worry. With no shot you know Twice is safe, and you can get back on schedule tonight. I hope he has a great surf. No bouncing Twice, 'K? and GO SHED!

Auntie Kim - you needs me!!! I am on my way. I will bring lots of everything. You were up way too late last night... See ya in a few! ~~ Elsa, Lil BIT, kitteh Barista
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

:shock: What a morning you're having Kim! You weren't kidding when you said curveball ;-) ! I wish I had advice for you... as you always have such great advice for me!... but instead I just send through all my good thoughts. Yay for Twice that he earned a reducation and that you are home with him today to keep a close eye.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Thanks Joely! I ended up skipping his dose because there was just no way I would be able to get him back on schedule in time. Should make it a relaxing day ;-)
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

I know that once you get used to the dance, the thought of skipping is really hard because you don't want to lose the momentum, but I think you made a wise decision today. Twice will be back on track before you know it..maybe even with this evening's cycle! Have a great day, Kim!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

I do hope you get that relaxing day :smile: Tell Twice that Ophie says only a small bounce is allowed today :lol:. I was riveted by your condo last night. Interesting experiment with the MC food. Ophie is a free fed kitty too, and she is much better at eating when I leave food and don't watch (I always peek though). I noticed the other night (after all the trowing up!), she kept taking (little) bites of her food when she needed it. Her number kept steady, so the very slow/constant stream of food seems to have helped. I hope Twice continues to do well today and that you are back on track asap... :smile:
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Me too Joely!! There are a couple other members that I know are trying the food manipulation, Jane (Cleo) and Pam (Hoot), if you're interested in creeping their condos. I find after awhile I absorb much more when I'm watching and learning what others are doing. Not everything works for every cat, but you never know till you try! I think this food manipulation will work for Twice, but he really wanted a reduction with this dose.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Well never a dull moment over here :lol: :lol:
I think Twice will do just fine with the skipped shot. It seems he was ready for a reducie anyway.
And a break for you :-D
Hoot is flat yellow so I won't be doing any manipulating this cycle, but maybe tonight if he clears this bounce by then.
You and Twice enjoy your break today ;-)
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Wow, Kim, on this morning's excitement.
Congrats on the reduction.
I hope you and Twice (and the rest of the crew) enjoy your day :-D
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

It looks like you saw a 47 this morning? That being the case, Twice's dose does need to be reduced. I'd see what the numbers look like tonight. If the numbers zoom up due to the skipped shot, I'd hold the 0.75u dose and then reduce tomorrow morning. You can reduce tonight regardless of the numbers. Shooting through the high numbers after a skipped shot (or a bounce) is an option -- it's not mandatory.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

@Pam=Yeah we like to keep it 'fresh' in Twicevilleland. :roll: :lol: But after last night I could use a relaxing day...if you check my ss you will see the irony in that statement...it's a surf, but keeping me on my toes :roll: :lol:
@Josie=Thanks for the congrats! We were actually trying an experiment last night to prevent a 'too soon' reducie, but Twice knows better what he wants :-D
@Sienne=Thank you for checking into this for us and explaining it so well. Takes the guess work out of it for me which makes me so much less stressed :-D :-D
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Hey Kim,
I think you did the right thing by skipping, rather than stalling. There is a saying here: "feed the 40s" (and I think that means to give a little LC food even when stalling).

Good luck with the windows!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

@Ella=That is good to know! I really had no idea what to do there about feeding in that kind of a stall situation. Thank you :-D
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Wow Kim,
You had an exciting morning!!! :o :shock:
I would have done the same with that dropping low preshot number. ;-)
I hope both you and Twice get a break from ear pokes and enjoy relaxing today!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Thanks Mariko! I wonder if it would be ok to shave the reduction? I didn't care for how the .5 dose worked after 10 cycles and the .75 was nice and flat producing, it may just be that the calipers are set a little high. I am not perfect at setting them yet and maybe I am actually a tad over .75. Any thoughts out there?
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Kim-
You can try a bit less than .75 but not quite all the way down to .5U. I did that a lot with Mr.Cat - gave him the in-between doses when he was headed down toward a reduction but not quite ready for a full .25 reduction. It may not seem like much, but the difference is a good-sized drop and cats are little, so it has an effect. As long as you know how it looks on your syringe, just stay in that spot for a while.
I also started checking my syringes and found that there was often a .5U to 1U difference in how far the stopper went past the zero line. Sometimes, the stopper went waaayyyy past the zero line by more than .5U and other times, it stopped on top of the zero line (about a 1U variation overall). So... I separated the syringes into groups depending on where the stopper stopped. That way, I had more control over the dose.
Good luck! :-D
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

No dosing advice here.... but wanted to stop by and say hi. Wow Twice's numbers are great! Good decision to skip that shot today! Hope Twice continues a nice safe surf today.

Hope you have a great day Kim!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

@Jess-Yup. That's what I noticed with the syringes too. Hence the calipers, but these ones measure just a bit big and the new ones won't be in for another week, so it's a tweaky kinda thing.
@Jamie-Hey! Thanks for stopping in and re-affirming the skipped dose. Much appreciated :-D How's Jupe today? Hope he's feeling a little better every day. I've been watching for your condo. Send him love and scritches and little head butts from us! Hugs to you!!!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Congrats on the reduction! Hopefully you'll have a nice relaxing day and he continues to surf. :thumbup
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Hi Kim. WOW, what a ride Twice has taken you on in the last 24 hours !!!
You (and Twice) deserve a day of relaxation ;-)

No advice from me just well wishes for you to have a great Monday!!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Thanks Will and Rise! Very thoughtful of both of you to stop by on your race to the finish line :lol: :mrgreen: We are Cheering you on!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

nice cycling for Twice. :smile:

Looking back at yesterday's condo and today's, I don't think I did a good job of explaining what I was thinking about feeding Twice. Sorry I didn't get home in time to follow up last night.

Manipulating cycles with medium carb food can be a good strategy for some cats that are hard to regulate. That is NOT where Twice is right now. :mrgreen: He is not bouncing and diving, he is fairly flat and that is where we would like to try to keep him. What I was suggesting was simply using his regular food to "feed the curve." Basically you are using food to "teach" him to surf until he can do it all on his own.

To use last night as an example, at +2 he had dropped a bit to 110 (ok) then at +3 was 95. That's a good number, so let's say you want to see if he will surf at that level. Feed him a couple tsp. of low carb and test again in an hour to see what happened. Then repeat - if it's a good number, throw him a little low carb. I would stick with low carb if at all possible, but of course if he starts going low then you may need to up the carbs just for that cycle.

As I said yesterday, I do not think Twice needs any fancy feeding regimen. He is newly diagnosed and so far has been easy to regulate (anti-jinx). I just didn't want to see him earn a reduction any sooner than he had to because this dose has set him on a good path.

I know that you are free feeding. I free-fed Lucy too, so when I tested and wanted to get her to surf I would open a new can and give her a couple tsp. in a separate dish. It made her think she was getting something special so she would scarf it right away. I still left her regular food out too, and watched to see when she was eating.

FYI, we sometimes call it "the Snap" when a cat suddenly snaps from being all over the board to being all blue/green. Usually it happens all of a sudden. It's too soon to say for sure whether Twice has "snapped," but when I see patterns like his past few days it makes me want to try really hard to help them maintain it. A lot of pancreas healing is probably happening right now, so it's great if we can give him a little help. If he can't hold it this time, he'll give us another chance, but it can't hurt to do what we can.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Hi Libby. I was hoping you would pop over today. :-D No I think you did explain it well. With last night, I know from other times that that much at +2 for him means we are heading down quick. That drop paired with his eyes looking a little crazy and him feeding himself in a smacking mouth kind of way pretty much tells me what he has planned. I would have normally reached for the hc and taken his other food away. A few tsps of the hc over the course of the time and we would be in really high numbers right now. I know being this low wasn't the idea either, but I couldn't stop that. I was surprised he was taking a second run at the low. My terminology with manipulating the curve may very well be misused. I wanted to stop the reduction forcing 'dive' that was going to happen without sending him into a big bounce. I don't often get this many days off, in fact this month alone I have had more time off than the previous 3.5 months which were all almost 7day/week :lol: That being said, it seemed like now was a good time to try some different stategies to see how they worked with him. That way, if I'm leaving for work I know, as well as a person can in a cat's world, what is going to happen.
The thing with getting him to surf by timed feeding will never work for me. These days off just are not typical. In the morning I get a +11 and ps, and literally leave the house within 10 minutes. No +1 or +2 to tell me how the day is going to go. And so far, I have plugged through. I test the heck out of him at night and usually have the alarm set for a +4 and +6 maybe +8. So I at least have some data to work with :-D However, the wee bugger patterns different in the am and pm :roll:
I am hoping that we can find a way to keep him in these blues or greens for as many days as possible, and I thought the mc last night really made that happen? I have zero intention of taking him off the lc. But I knew last night he was in headed for a dive...
I'm rambling. Do I make any sense?
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Hi Kim. Looks like twice has been keeping you on your "A" game the past 24 hours. You're learning this sugar dance pretty quickly. I know what you mean when you say " However! The wee bugger patterns different in the am and pm.". PF is the same way. He usually has nicer numbers in the AM cycle.

Hope you're having a nice day.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Congratulations on that beautiful cycle last night Kim! No wonder you need ~O) ~O) . Neko welcomes Twice into the "Night Cycle Limbo" club. It'll be good to have company during the PM cycles. :roll: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

would you mind taking a look at Twice's SS for me. I tried last night to stop a reduction from happening too soon on his new dose because I really liked his flat blue cycles and the dose before sucked :lol: Anyhow, I free fed him mc instead of his usual lc and sure as heck he surfed all night. Woo hoo...till this morning. I ended up not being able to shoot AND having the reduction. Today with no juice on board, he has surfed green up till +10 and is only at 5.8 there. Do I need to take the full yucky reduction back to flat yellow land, or can I try something in between?
I should also note, he isn't himself last night or today. These greens seem to make him maybe a little nauseaus. No vomit, but not happy appy and drooling. Eyes are 3rd eyeliddy....Just not ready for the green cycles yet...even if they are flat and beautiful :roll: That being said, maybe i should do the full .25 reduction and this time he will use it differently???
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

I would take the full .25 reduction, especially with appy not great. Sometimes kitties need to go back up as Twice did to get things kick started on the lower dose. Here's hoping Twice has decided green is his favorite colour.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

I would take the full reduction and see how it does on the .5. Maybe his pancreas is working better and is getting more regulated. His numbers are pretty low for no insulin in 10 hours.

If the .5 doesn't work, then you can try an in between dose.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

I don't see a problem with taking the full 0.25u reduction.

What you might see are higher numbers tonight. Because of the insulin depot, some cats don't have an immediate response to changes in dose or a skipped shot. Given what you've been seeing all day today, it's possible that the depot has been "kicking in" to keep Twice's numbers looking so good. You might see numbers coming up this evening. Should that happen and especially since you're thinking about reducing the dose, you don't want to overreact and think of the dose reduction coupled with higher numbers as a failed reduction. The action of the depot can make dose changes a bit confusing!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

Hi Kim, just coming by to check-in on you guys. Twice's BG has done well today without his shot! I'm sorry he's not feeling so good though :sad:. I'm in no position to offer advice, but what you're describing with Twice tonight is a lot like what happened with Ophie the other day (when you were the rock star advisor! :-D). Ophie had been acting tweaky and nauseous at the end of the day, then I gave her the PM dose, and things went downhill for her quickly and she got shakey and threw up a number of times. Despite her BG being in the 70s, she was just "wrong"... period. That night, I know, had I not given her HC food to munch on (free fed), she would have had yet another dive. By feeding her what I did, I was able to keep her up. Oh, I've just been thinking a lot about how dangerous waiting for the below 50s is for kitty. I know I'm in the wrong chat board to opine on that one :lol:, as that is the whole entire point of tight regulation. It's not for the weak of heart, for sure! Anyway, just offering my support. I am sure you will do what is right for you and Twice!!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

Wendy, Catherine, Sienne, Joely & Melissa- Thank you to each and every one of you for the great advice and kind words of encouragement! I will go with the full reduction. Joely, I actually thought of Ophie today when I seen Twice not feeling good. He use to look like that in the yellows! :lol: We are progressing ;-)
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

Wow Kim....looks like Twice has really been keeping you on your toes! Hopefully he won't bounce to the moon tonight, and will just surf some nice safe numbers so you can get some sleep tonight!

Congratulations on the reduction...and as I've been told (more than once), just because they didn't do well on that dose before, doesn't mean they won't do well on it the next time. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 11/25 Twice Dose ?

Kim, what are your thoughts about whether he can hold a 0.25u reduction? Earlier it sounded like you didn't want to do that.

There are a couple of other options:

1. Try a shave instead of a full 0.25u reduction (we do that sometimes if there is enough data to believe a reduction might not hold).

or 2. Try waiting for him to go below 50 three times, then doing a full 0.25u reduction (a la the German version of the protocol).

You can try one or the other of these tactics, if you want. Not both (you don't want to wait for three times under 50 AND shave the dose, if you do three times under 50 you really need to take the full reduction). Either of those options are slightly more aggressive than the original protocol, but I think there is enough reason to try one of them here if you want. The 0.50u dose didn't do anything for Twice a few days ago. Some day it WILL work for him, but giving him some extra time with a bit more juice might improve the odds that 0.5u will work better when he gets back there again.

One reason I'm suggesting being a tad more aggressive now is that the 47 came at the tail end of his cycle, after stalling and not feeding. The problem with stalling is that if you're not feeding, the number could keep dropping and you end up with a number you're not comfortable shooting. Would he have hit 40s if you had shot and fed at +12? Maybe, maybe not. How's that for an answer? :lol: Another reason is that by skipping today's shot, you have depleted his insulin depot a bit and 0.5u might not be enough to maintain his numbers and replenish the depot. Of course, if he was really ready for the reduction it might hold. You're home again tomorrow, right?

Oh, and in one post you mentioned not being sure how to handle feeding while stalling. There are some suggestions in the Shooting and Handling Low Numbers sticky.

eta: while I was taking so long to type, I noticed that your spreadsheet says you shot 0.5u. Hopefully he will hold the reduction! Remember, you can always go right back to the last good dose if a reduction doesn't hold.
 
Re: 11/25 Twice PMPS 112

Wow Kim what a day you have had. Yippie on the reduction. Hugs and more hugs to you and Twice!
 
Re: 11/25 Twice 1 1/2hrs off schedule=no shot

Kim & Twice said:
Thanks Will and Rise! Very thoughtful of both of you to stop by on your race to the finish line :lol: :mrgreen: We are Cheering you on!
Click to expand...

Thanks and we're looking forward to the day when Twice can join us there. He can do it! :thumbup
 
Re: 11/25 Twice PMPS 112 +1 103

Just popping in to say HI again. I have been thinking about you all day. Looks like you took the reduction. Do let keep us updated on how Twice is feeling tonight... I hope his little body is feeling better, less nausea and third eye-y, and that the .5 is just the right thing to help him tonight. Tomorrow is a new day! You are doing so great!!
 
Thank you Libby, Elizabeth, Will and Joely
@Libby-Thank you for the options for shaving or German. I ended up at the PS deadline and went with the full reduction because he just isn't eating well now and is definately off. Although nice flat green is desired and healing, he is just not ready for it. I can see he 'feels' like he's too low. So, we will hope for some flat yellow or blue (he likes blue now)! :-D

@Elizabeth-Thank you for checking on us! Mega hugs and headbutts headed your way :-D

@Will-We look forward to seeing you there someday :-D

@Joely-Twice is not eating very well, so nausea is an issue, but not throwing up. He won't eat his treats either and he has ALWAYS eaten them even when like this before. So I know he's feeling rough. He isn't too low, in fact the numbers are beautiful, but his body 'thinks' he is too low so I imagine he will have an off night tonight. The reduction should pull him back by the AM cycle and he will be my little maniac again. :-D This is the part I always try to remind myself now...Sure the numbers are awesome, but he isn't. Having him healthy and happy everyday is the goal. He will love these numbers someday soon, but just not yet :? :smile: Thank you for coming back to check on us! It means alot! :-D
 
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