11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83;+6.25=116

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MrZ

MrZ

Member Since 2013
Up from 41 @ +2.5. Having some difficulty getting him to eat. Fed 1 tsp 17% will test at +3. Gave him some corn syrup @+2.5. The hypo kit says give 1 Tbls corn syrup, is that right? Seems like a lot. Also noticed he's drinking a bit of water which the hypo kit says can be an indication of hypo.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47 May need help

Test every 20 min. and I'd give Zeke some gravy + a few drops of Karo. I don't give a tablespoon of Karo. It is a lot.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47 May need help

One tbsp is too much. I'd just give him a drop. Please retest 30 mins after you fed last.

I'll be watching for you.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47 May need help

What was Z's PMPS number?

A tblsp of karo is a bit much. But it comes down to whatever it takes to bump them up. In the past, how has Zeke responded to carbs or karo to prop up his numbers?

You can use just a few drops of karo mixed into the food, but if he isn't wanting to eat, just rub a little on his gums. 47 isn't yet "crisis" time, but you want him to stay that high or higher.

If he will eat, try to keep the portions small in case you need to feed a few times. And let's see what +3 shows you.

Carl
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50

OK, 50 is good. Now, try to give whatever he just ate 30 minutes to show up on the meter? Next test in 30 minutes?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50

Glad to see he is coming up. I'd give him a couple tsp of LC and test in 30 to see if he is continuing up. Once he's above 50, I'd try the LC even though it is early in the cycle. If you gave him syrup at +2.5 and +2.75, he should be coming up more.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50

I will update his ss shortly. In the past Zeke has been very carb sensitive. However, because he dropped so rapidly, I've been giving him 17% to get him up but he's only gotten up to 50 @+3. Because Zeke dropped to 41 @+2.5, I rubbed some syrup on his gums.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50

Good job! Quick thinking, Laura.

It does help us to know his PMPS so we can see the amount of the drop from PMPS to +2.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Just fed another tsp 17%. Do you think I should give him more since he's back under 50? Still 3 hours from nadir.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Seems like he is going to be stubborn. If you just gave him one tsp of gravy, I'd give him another one and grab a +4.

He's basically the same but I'd like to see hi surf higher.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Well I'm giving him the FF grilled turkey (in gravy) and not just the gravy.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Thanks for updating the SS.

The numbers make more sense now to me. It looks like the PMPS reading was a "falling number", and it just kept going down afterwards. And the dose was just increased this morning, right?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll throw it out there. Since this was the first day on the increased dose, does Laura reduce back to 1.75u due to tonight's excitement?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Laura, I'm not really sure if stalling would have been the "right thing". I didn't mean to question the shot, I just was making the remark that the numbers "made more sense to me" once I saw the AM cycle. This is a learning experience for me too, every time I watch it happen.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

I would not have stalled and you did a good job by getting the +1. But at +1, you would expect a bit of a food spike especially in a carb sensitive kitty so I would have started to feed that drop because 138 to 91 in an hour is a lot (when there should be a spike).

As far as the dose goes, he was clearing a bounce and some cats can get a little active when bounce clearing. If he had come right up with the 17%, I'd probably hold the dose but since he's making you work a bit! I'd probably take him back down to 1.75u. He's probably going to bounce so you can shoot through it if you like and to reduce.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Yeah, as soon as I saw that +1, I knew I was gonna be busy. I started feeding him immediately and testing more often when I saw that the food wasn't getting his BG up. I just fed him another tsp 17% @+3.75 so I'm gonna hold off testing until +4.25. He's been protesting the frequent testing a bit. Gotta balance his safety with the need to have his cooperation.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

I'm off work for the next 5 days.... I'll be watching for it. ;-)
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

I did debate the increase a bit as I was wondering if he was bouncing some. Trying to decide when to adjust his insulin has been difficult as his numbers don't make it very clear cut (to me at least). He'd been on 1.75u for 17 days and the pinks were happening more often but the greens were dropping off. I just started to wonder if I was holding the dose too long. Thought I'd give the 2u a try but after the last few hours I am not so eager to go through this again (nor put Zeke through it either). I will definitely be seeking dosing advice again soon I am sure (once I see how going back down to 1.75u effects his BGs). Gosh, I hope it's not gonna be another failed reduction. I was hoping the 2u were gonna give him some nice green surfs. My thought was that I would be happy holding him at 2u if that happened - no rush for a reduction.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46

Would you feel better about just shaving the dose? You can do that and see how he does with a dose in between 1.75u and 2u. That might be your best bet.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

The 59 is nice to see. :smile:
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

Ditto on the 59.

Laura..I posted some thoughts above on just shaving his dose instead of reducing to 1.75u.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

Marje - you read my mind (sort of). Actually, I was gonna ask that if I shoot through the bounce tomorrow morning and the following cycle doesn't indicate a falling number at PMPS, whether I should consider trying the 2u again. Obviously, if he drops again below 50 then I wouldn't second guess a reduction. However, I like your suggestion better. I really didn't want to go back down to 1.75u and see the same pattern as the last 17 days.

A question just in case: What if he is not high at AMPS, what dose should I give? The shaved 2u?

BTW - He's up to 59 at +4.25. I don't plan on feeding anymore unless he drops again. Do you think I can wait until +5 to test again?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

Yes you can test again at +5.

If you don't see a bounce in the AM, then I'd shoot the shaved dose that Marje mentioned.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

If he doesn't bounce, I'd try and shave the 2u dose.

I understand your concern about going back down to 1.75u. And I also feel these low numbers see bounce clearing PLUS a new dose. But you started feeding him at the 91 and had to keep feeding quite a bit. If you had not fed him at the 91 and if he had come right up with 17% and syrup after the 41, I'd hold the 2u.

I still think the safest thing to do is shave. Looking at his SS and reading yesterday's condo, I would have also increased the dose so i think you got good advice. Seems he just wanted you to fine tune it though :-D

Yes..you can wait until +5.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke +2.5= 41; +2.75 = 47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59

Well I actually didn't bring out the big guns (HC) until +2.75. I tried the usual 4%, then mixed in some 5% and then 7% and then maple syrup and then 12% and then finally 17% when I kinda started to panic that his numbers weren't rising. I didn't want to whip out the HC right away as in the past when I did so, his BG spiked and the food ruined what I felt should have been a really good cycle. He is carb sensitive so tonight's required feedings indicate that there was just too much going on (maybe both a clear and the effect of the increase; or perhaps just that 2u is just a little too much). Either way, thank you Marje and Carl for being here for me and Zeke and for the dosing advice. It's reassuring to know that the decisions I made with the dose and the PMPS shot were not bad - just the timing of things perhaps. Still learning.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+2.75=47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59 QUEST

What # is the threshold for shooting through the bounce? Only if over 300?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+2.75=47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59 QUEST

You absolutely did not make any wrong decisions.

I would be sure and note what works for him and what doesn't. When we were new, my goodness....I had all these different foods and mixed and matched....made my head spin. I have found simple is better. I know if Gracie is coming down fast or she gives me a number in the 30s, she gets 10%. If she came down slow but wants to hang out in the 40s, I give her 5%.

I've found that for her, and for many cats, the amount you give is what helps. ECID...some cats will eat what you feed them and Gracie is one. So I know it works better to give her more 10% when she's coming down fast or low. We always start out telling you to give gravy and not let them get too full. You know Zeke best but you want to be sure he doesn't get so much that he vomits. It takes experimentation but once you figure it out, it all becomes much easier.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+2.75=47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59 QUEST

You are very welcome, Laura. I haven't been around lately, but today I decided I should try to come back and see if anyone could use some help. One of my best friends mentioned that it might be time to "get back in the saddle" and that advice couldn't have come at a better time for me. :smile:

I'm not sure where I'd draw the "line in the sand" but 300 (in my opinion) would be good evidence of a bounce.

The important thing, I think, from tonight was the fact that you have learned to "know thy cat". You know he's carb-sensitive, and you've seen him come up quickly before. When you didn't see that happen, by trying lower carbs, then progressively higher carbs, you learned more about his response to carbs. And like you said, there was a lot going on today with his numbers, so it makes sense that what you figured should work (lower carbs) didn't work so well. But they did stop him from dropping too far. You were on top of it all the way.

And like you, I learned from this. So it was "all good".
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+2.75=47;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59 QUEST

In looking at his SS, I think if you will be home to test, I'd probably shoot through the bounce if he's over 250 at AMPS as long as he's been rising. I. Other words, if 250 is a rising number, I'd shoot through the bounce just based on what he's done in the past. If it's a dropping 250, I'd probably take the reduction.

Keep in mind that when you shoot through the bounce, the numbers "might" come back down. That's why you need to be prepared to test.

Great job tonight. Good luck with the reduction.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

At +5 he's at 83. I haven't fed since +4.25 and he's had two rising numbers in a row. Do you think I can go ahead and head to bed?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

Are you able to get a +10 or +11?

I actually would prefer that you are still seeing a rising number after two hours have passed since he ate. Can you get up and test him at +6.5 or so?

It takes about two hours for food to wear off....so I'd really feel better if you got that extra check.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

This from earlier...
BTW - He's up to 59 at +4.25. I don't plan on feeding anymore unless he drops again. Do you think I can wait until +5 to test again?
Click to expand...

Did you feed him more at +4.25, or was that increase to 59 from the snack he'd had a half hour earlier?
If you haven't given food since +3.75, then that would be two rising numbers, without food for the last rise. In that case, I think you could leave some food out and catch some sleep?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

Are you able to get a +10 or +11?
Click to expand...

The +11 is a good idea too, Laura. That will tell you if the AMPS reading is a rising number or not.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

My bad. I haven't fed since +3.75. I'll hang out a little more and take a +5.75 maybe +6. I think with all the 17% I gave him he's ok but I'll wait for the 2-hours after last feeding to be sure.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

+5.75 is only about 20 minutes from now, right?
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83-OK TO SL

Good, then we can see what Zeke thinks. :-)
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83;+6.25=11

OK - in the clear. Gosh, I hope Zeke doesn't sky rocket. He needed those high carbs a few hours ago but I'm hoping the effects won't carrying forward through the rest of the night or longer. I'll be up again to test at +9.5. Keeping fingers and paws crossed it ain't gonna be ugly. Oh, please, please, please.....
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83;+6.25=11

Laura,
Those carbs from gravy and syrup don't last for hours and hours. They won't be the reason behind higher numbers later on. If you see a higher number at +9.5, or at AMPS, it will come from a bounce caused by the drop into the 40's. You didn't overdue it with the feedings. That's what it took to get the numbers up is all.

You handled things great. :-)
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83;+6.25=11

I'm just very leery of HC because of what happened on 9/20. It seems to me Zeke was doing just fine, working his way down to 0.75U and then I made that error and he started getting blacks and reds and here we are at 2.0u. Maybe it was just a coincidence but I would have preferred not to have had to resort to HC tonight. I'll be holding my breath over the next couple of days.
 
Re: 11/24 Zeke:+2.5=41;+3=50;+3.5=46;+4.25=59;+5=83;+6.25=11

I understand. But what I try to keep in mind is that 9/20 was a long time ago. And Zeke isn't the same kitty he was back then. I've seen kitties go down, then back up the dose scale. But usually, they work their way back down. Bob went up to 4u twice a day before something "clicked". 2u might be frustrating, but it really isn't a lot of insulin. This is where I'm supposed to tell you to keep wearing the patience pants... ;-)

Get some sleep, and try not to sweat the numbers.
 
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