11/23 Johnny PMPS 422 ~ +3 (247)

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Janice & Johnny

Janice & Johnny

Member Since 2010
Johnny was 276 before eating at 7:00 this morning. We couldn't shoot until 8:15 because of the timing, so I got a test right beforehand and he was 302. I shot a drop. He still seems hungrier than usual and a little sensitive mood-wise, but is otherwise still playing and doing what he usually does.

I'm sitting here trying to build up the confidence to make the call (or not) to the vet for the bloodwork, etc. Brian could take him later today if they have availability, but he thinks we should just schedule the dental for as soon as possible and see what that does. It will be good for him anyway. He’s just concerned that we’ll be throwing a couple hundred dollars down to maybe find out nothing. I just don’t know what the right thing is to do. I want to get his numbers under control and get him feeling better, but I don’t know if he needs a dental (getting one anyway), insulin (and how much and nobody is home during the day to test) or has an infection but no symptoms. Brian's in school full time and I'm at work 20 miles away...with Johnny's history of being so sensitive to the insulin, I'm terrified at the thought of giving him more than a drop unless he's in the upper 200s/300s.

I wish we felt supported by our vet. If we go in, they’ll probably want him to start back at 2u (which WON’T happen, don’t worry). It will just be typical of them. And part of me is now nervous that they might give him insulin without our permission surrounding the dental.
Ugh. I hate this. Thanks for letting me get that out!

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Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276

I'm sorry you have to be back here, Janice. I know how upsetting this must be. Can you take him in for an exam and bloodwork/UA? The vet may be able to tell you if he needs a dental or not. And it is possible to have an infection with no symptoms. I hope you can get Johnny back on track soon.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276

Janice,
Let me tell you that it will all be worth it. The dental has never happened so that alone will be a good thing. Just to know for sure that the teeth have been cleaned up and any bad ones removed, and even if just a cleaning, you will have ruled out the teeth. So often, it's a process of elimination.
The bloodwork, and u/a - c&s, will show you what's going on in those depts. It's possible there are other problems that DO require attn and have caused the BG numbers to jump. It's best to have those areas checked because it does not necessarily have to be a relapse.

I took Shadoe to the vet a bit ago. She was 'off' and I knew something was wrong. We did b/w, u/a, and c&s, and no bacteria was found plus her b/w did not have anything jump out at us. But something was wrong, that we knew.
We started on Clavamox, and after a few days, I took it back, saying it was not doing a thing. I got flagyl and then finally zeniquin. I don't know if it was the combo of all 3 a/b, but she perked right up with the zeniquin.

I don't think they can find everything, but we know when there is a problem. Best to rule out non FD issues, and then know for sure that Johnny needs a few drops to get going again.

I think it would be a good thing to find out that he has just an infection and some meds for 10days will have Johnny back on track and no more high BG! If you just assume he needs insulin, but actually has an infection, he will still be having problems, despite receiving insulin.

And you're right about the dosing. You got Johnny OTJ with the protocol, so you know what to do to get him back there!

I hope Johnny feels better soon.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276

Thanks for the support, Ele and Celi. Gayle, thanks for typing all that out. What you said made a lot of sense to me. Johnny has an appt for 5:40 CT tonight. It's with a vet we haven't seen before, so there is a little hope in that for me that we may not face the obstacles I'm expecting. We'll ask for bloodwork and a urinalysis (with needle, not catheter). I asked about cost and they said it depends on what tests they decide to run. Let me know if you think of any we should be requesting.

I'll be checking in here for another 45 minutes or so in case there are suggestions. Otherwise, I'll update when we're home. I'm not sure they'll have any results back though. We'll see. Trying not to be nervous and reminding myself it's what he needs us to do.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276 - appt tonight

Janice & Johnny said:
Johnny was 276 before eating at 7:00 this morning. We couldn't shoot until 8:15 because of the timing, so I got a test right beforehand and he was 302. I shot a drop. He still seems hungrier than usual and a little sensitive mood-wise, but is otherwise still playing and doing what he usually does.

I'm sitting here trying to build up the confidence to make the call (or not) to the vet for the bloodwork, etc. Brian could take him later today if they have availability, but he thinks we should just schedule the dental for as soon as possible and see what that does. It will be good for him anyway. He’s just concerned that we’ll be throwing a couple hundred dollars down to maybe find out nothing. I just don’t know what the right thing is to do. I want to get his numbers under control and get him feeling better, but I don’t know if he needs a dental (getting one anyway), insulin (and how much and nobody is home during the day to test) or has an infection but no symptoms. Brian's in school full time and I'm at work 20 miles away...with Johnny's history of being so sensitive to the insulin, I'm terrified at the thought of giving him more than a drop unless he's in the upper 200s/300s.

I wish we felt supported by our vet. If we go in, they’ll probably want him to start back at 2u (which WON’T happen, don’t worry). It will just be typical of them. And part of me is now nervous that they might give him insulin without our permission surrounding the dental.
Ugh. I hate this. Thanks for letting me get that out!

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30429
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Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276 - appt tonight

The vet should do blood work routinely before a dental. This is SOP in order to make sure there is no infection prior to anesthesia.

Here's info on what you need to know prior to a dental. It's from my vet's practice. If you don't feel supported by your vet, feel free to give mine a call. They are great. The only thing she's ever said about how I manage Gabby's FD is that I don't need to test as much as I do. She's now using the Queensland protocol with her FD patients. My vet is Holly Pohl and all the info is in the link on dentals.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276 - appt tonight

i don't think i can add anything to this thread that hasn't already been mentioned.
there's a reason johnny's numbers have gone up. having lab work done is the best place to start.
and as far as the "start johnny on 2u" business goes...
start practicing the same technique many of us have used from time to time.
"smile... and nod." :lol:
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny AMPS 276 - appt tonight

We're back! Johnny was very well-behaved and the vet tech was just loving him and slipped and said "He's SUCH a good dog!" :lol: She was embarrassed and said "he really is kind of dog like!"

We had a new, and dare I say more well-informed, vet. Our other vet was in the office too (didn't see her) and the new vet said she had briefly talked with Dr. C to get caught up on Johnny. So, first off "I understand he's on 2 units." :lol: Back in October, when I took Katie in for her yearly check up, I told her about Johnny being OTJ since the end of August. I don't blame her for not writing our conversation in Johnny's file, but it's funny that she forgot it. Well, funny like stubbing your toe. Heehee.

They took blood and urine (in a sterile way, with needle). Our receipt mentions: Urinalysis/Sediment Exam, **IDEXX (Urinalysis), Panel-Total Body Function, and Pet Longevity Blood Test. I should get a call tomorrow with results. In a way, I'm hoping that there is a little teeny tiny UTI or something that would make the numbers make sense. Re: the dental, she thinks it's a great idea, but would like to have the diabetes regulated beforehand. If there isn't an infection elsewhere, I will push for it sooner rather than later, in case that's the cause. She said he's the perfect weight for his body (12 lbs even).

New vet, Dr. E, said she wished all owners made themselves so well-informed. She was actually impressed with our care of Johnny and his diabetes and said so multiple times. She also complimented us for noticing that his numbers had gone up and said home-testing was so important. Wow (first vet never mentioned it when he was diagnosed, we found this site and then bought everything). I mentioned this board and our charts and she said that was great...and she said she does have clients e-mail her charts quite often...she said "I wonder if you know them?" The only strange comments were that remissions are often short, like a few months, even with Lantus....and that she thought we should go with 1 unit for now. I explained about how sensitive he was to the insulin and could drop 100+ points in a short time with little more than a drop at times. She said we could do 1/2 unit, but it was harder to measure. LOL We've done drops, .10, etc.

She did say that our insulin should be replaced. I asked for a prescription for 3 pens....and now I'm thinking it should have been cartridges...shoot...which is it? We want to have three separate, smaller containers so that all doesn't go bad immediately. How much is the typical Lantus pen? Can you buy them solo? I'll have to take care of that tomorrow.

Thanks for all the advice/support.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny - 422 @ +11.5 - dose advice

Johnny is 422 right now. :shock: Proably a little bit of vet shock in there, even though he pretends he's Mr. Cool.

Thoughts on dose? The vet first said one unit (makes me waaay to nervous...I instinctively did the smile and nod, Jill ;-) ) and then she said 1/2 unit. But I'm way more interested in what the peeps here have to say. Tomorrow p.m., we should have fresh insulin.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny 422 @ +11.5 - Appt update and dose ?

I am glad it all went pretty well with the new vet; I wish I could say one way or the other if I hope the tests find something or not! At any rate, you will have a snapshot and know how he's doing right now.

I can't comment on what dose would be good for Johnny; I don't know if you just jump in the same way as the first go-round or if anything is diff after a time of OTJ. I think the smile and nod method works with the vet; you know best how Johnny reacts.

I think the pens are 3ml and so are the cartridges, so you're fine with either.

My Ollie's like Johnny, well behaved and not giving any idea of big changes in BG, but Ollie drops like a stone at the vet.
He does come back up nicely after being home again for a bit so I hope Johnny comes down a bit too.

Wait till the cat is regulated before a dental? Sigh, dentists don't say that to human diabetics do they? Maybe some others can say more about it all, but I'd tell the vet that it's your cat and your money and you want the dental done.

I am glad Johnny's back home again and hope his numbers come down a bit.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny 422 @ +11.5 - Appt update and dose ?

((((Janice)))) I hope the vet visit sheds some answers.

Knowing Johnny, I don't think I was start any higher than 0.5 units. 0.25 might even be good, depending on how aggressive you want to be and how much you can monitor. Will you be home on Thursday and Friday?
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny 422 @ +11.5 - Appt update and dose ?

Brian just tossed out the idea of .25 before seeing your post. I think we'll go that route and see where that leads us. Thanks, Libby. We were planning to drop all three kitties off at our friends' place for Thurs-Sun while we travel to Michigan to see family. She's comfortable with testing and shots, but we've always given her a set dosage or a bg number where she should call us first. So, in fairness to all, we've decided to take Johnny with us. He's a good traveler. I just wonder if the other two will be nervous wondering where Johnny is and vice versa? Sigh. It's tough being a good kitty mama. Hugs to all of us!!

Thanks for the dosage advice, Libby. And for the hugs. :)

Gayle, you're so right...would a dentist say the same about a human patient? Likely not. We'll see what tomorrow brings. And thanks for the peace of mind about the pen. We can use our syringes and dose from it, right? I'll google that!
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny 422 @ +11.5 - Appt update and dose ?

I hope your travels go well; I guess you will need to be sure you take all you'll need or maybe need for Johnny for the trip!
Have a safe trip and worry about dental plans later. There are plenty of people around here who can give tons of info on prep for the dental and what you want to tell your vet you want and do NOT want done or given to Johnny.

And yes, you can use your syringes like usual for pens or for cartridges.
 
Re: 11/23 Johnny 422 @ +11.5 - Appt update and dose ?

Gayle, I'm on another message board where you can "exalt" people and I want to do that for you. :smile: We'll have everything we might need (high carb, low carb, medium carb, etc.) and I'm already looking up an emergency vet just in case (anti-jinx). Hopefully my in-laws will understand and be accommodating about schedules...because we'll be looking out for Johnny.
 
247 @ +3. Glad to see that number way down! Paws crossed for good news tomorrow...a small, anti-biotic-feared infection would be okay............
 
Sounds like you've got a great vet! Sometimes it's nice to get a different opinion even from the same clinic, looks like it will work well for you.

Pens and cartridges are both 3 ml, vials are the larger 10 ml. The pharmacies I use only sell them in boxes of 5 but maybe yours will sell less. Several members in your area, maybe you could post to buy one from someone or share a purchase?
 
Treats! Treats! Don't forget treats for the road trip! Fresh toys too! Catnip!

I say WOW to those who travel with their pets! Ollie howls in his case while we wheel just around the corner to the vet office; I am sure people we pas in the street must think I beat him or something.

I am sure the family will just love Johnny, I mean come ON! He's one handsome fella!

You will hear from the vet and get any meds all sorted before leaving yes? Ask what to do if you run into any issues with the meds on your trip. Take something for a variety of "stool states" since you won't be at home to grab whatever you normally use.

I hope you are feeling better for doing the vet visit; it will ensure that you know what is and is not the problem.
 
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