11/20 Yoyo PMPS 261, +2 258, +4 252 ,+8 213 AMPS 269,+2 274,+4 255,+6 324, +7 339

Good morning, Hope all is well on your end.
I didn't do a +1 today but I just did a +2 at 274. Seems pretty steady today.
 
Yeah, looks like a steady. You should still do at least one in the +4 through +7 time frame to see if he drops into blue in there.
 
Ok...I'll do +4. Do you mean to do +5, +6 and +7 or pick one out of those numbers? Thank you for the input. This way I don't have to keep poking those poor ears right now.
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Do you mean to do +5, +6 and +7 or pick one out of those numbers?
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You pick one, just to see if he drops into the blues today.
Are you feeding after +9? I'm curious as to why his PMPS jumps up so much from his last test of the day.
I don't give Bailey food after +7 unless she is really, really hungry, and even then I water it down a lot.
Maybe that could work for Yoyo?
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
You pick one, just to see if he drops into the blues today.
Are you feeding after +9? I'm curious as to why his PMPS jumps up so much from his last test of the day.
I don't give Bailey food after +7 unless she is really, really hungry, and even then I water it down a lot.
Maybe that could work for Yoyo?
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I usually try and feed him every couple of hours so I usually try and feed him at least 2 hours before the PMPS which I believe is +10. I should probably feed him no later than the +9 but I have a lot on my plate and sometimes the time just flies by me and I realize that I didn't feed Yoyo yet so I race to feed him before it gets to close to the PMPS. He lost so much weight from the diabetes and I'm glad that he wants to eat. It's like a no win sutuation with the food and the insulin activity. But I will try and be more aware as to not feed him too late after the +9. If I can do the +8 I will for sure but then that leaves him without food for about 4 hours. Thats a lot for Yoyo.
But again, I thank you for the wise words, I appreciate all the help we can get!
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
It's important for him to gain weight so definitely don't leave him without food. Maybe smaller portions after +8?

If you can afford it, maybe this could help?
https://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-5-Meal-Automatic-Dispenses-Digital/dp/B000GEWHNS/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1542737158&sr=8-17&keywords=pet feeder
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The feeder is a nice thing to have but he would never eat the food. I have spoiled him, he waits for me to hold his bowl on the bed and then he eats. It is hard for him to get comfortable having 3 legs, so the bed is a soft spot for him. But I really thank you for thinking of him, very thoughtful!
 
Thanks! I just went through his spreadsheet and tried to write when I fed him from my notes on the side. Sometimes the food elevates his readings and then sometimes it doesn't seem to effect the readings. Is this normal?
 
Not sure if you are able to see it but on Yoyo's spreadsheet at the bottom their is a TEMPLATE. I put his numbers pre-insulin on the template. His numbers were lower pre-insulin. What are your thoughts?
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Not sure if you are able to see it but on Yoyo's spreadsheet at the bottom their is a TEMPLATE. I put his numbers pre-insulin on the template. His numbers were lower pre-insulin. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
It is not quite the same since you are seeing some occasional blue (under 200 ) with insulin but what I think is that probably as soon as the 7 day starting period finishes you will need to increase the dose to 0.75 units it looks like he needs more insulin that's why there are not big changes
 
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Hey there Debra. I agree with Rosie, maybe smaller meals after the nadir. Some kitties if fed after the nadir it is like putting the brakes on the insulin. Maybe you could give him the bulk of his calories prior to his nadir and then just an 1/8 of a can later than that and see if it helps his duration some.

I don't think the .50 unit is cutting it for him. It takes up to 6 cycles for a depot to fill and that was on the AM cycle of the 18th. The lowest number you've seen is 156 and that was back on the 16th. Maybe .75 of a unit would be a good idea. But, if you do change up the frequency of his feedings to be mostly prior to nadir, I would wait and hold this dose to see how the numbers are impacted.

See what others think.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey there Debra. I agree with Rosie, maybe smaller meals after the nadir. Some kitties if fed after the nadir it is like putting the brakes on the insulin. Maybe you could give him the bulk of his calories prior to his nadir and then just an 1/8 of a can later than that and see if it helps his duration some.

I don't think the .50 unit is cutting it for him. It takes up to 6 cycles for a depot to fill and that was on the AM cycle of the 18th. The lowest number you've seen is 156 and that was back on the 16th. Maybe .75 of a unit would be a good idea. But, if you do change up the frequency of his feedings to be mostly prior to nadir, I would wait and hold this dose to see how the numbers are impacted.

See what others think.
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Hi Bobbie, Thanks for the advice but it is hard for me to apply it. What do you think Yoyo's Nadir is?.....+5. And if it is +5 then when do I feed him. If I feed at +2 or +3 wouldn't this interfere with his numbers coming down then too? He usually eats about 2-3 cans a day of fancy feast classic pate. He is skinny now because he lost about 3 pounds. He used to be 13.8-14lbs, now he is at 11.8lbs. I just don't know when to give him his food as he needs to eat a lot and to me it looks like it interferes with everthing. I feed 1/2 can at pre shot if he eats it all, then say after reading of +3 give 1/2 can. Then what? That is where I am lost. (I guess I could give more food after PMPS ,during the evening, and then see how the morning dosage looks when I hold food after lets say +5 compared to the evening dosage).
Also, is anyone on the site Thanksgiving Day? Is there anyone to help if I run into a problem? Kind of scared to change dosage on Thanksgiving Day.
Also, one day -a.m / p.m. is that considered 2 cycles? Sorry, but I don't know these things.
Anything you can tell me is appreciated.
I would like to hold this .5 unit dose and see if I change his eating around the nadir if this helps.
But please tell me what you think his nadir is..please!
Thank you for your assistance.
 
If you give food before his nadir then you would be feeding him when the insulin has it's strongest effect and if you give it after then is when the insulin effect is starting to wear off so that's why they mentioned that the food given after the nadir may to a point diminis the effects a bit more, that being said you need to try and have an schedule as normal as possible for you and for him so bottom line is as long as you withdraw food 2 hours before the preshoot test and that is for security reasons you will be ok
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey there Debra. I agree with Rosie, maybe smaller meals after the nadir. Some kitties if fed after the nadir it is like putting the brakes on the insulin. Maybe you could give him the bulk of his calories prior to his nadir and then just an 1/8 of a can later than that and see if it helps his duration some.

I don't think the .50 unit is cutting it for him. It takes up to 6 cycles for a depot to fill and that was on the AM cycle of the 18th. The lowest number you've seen is 156 and that was back on the 16th. Maybe .75 of a unit would be a good idea. But, if you do change up the frequency of his feedings to be mostly prior to nadir, I would wait and hold this dose to see how the numbers are impacted.

See what others think.
Click to expand...
I agree he needs more insulin
 
It looks like his nadir is around +5. So I would feed him the bulk of his food prior to that and with just a token amount after that. ( maybe nothing after +8) And see what the numbers look like. It is wise to hold this dose if you are going to change the feeding schedule ASAP.

There will be some peeps online. I am hosting so I won't be on until later in the evening ( probably after 8 ish EST)

It is all an experiment with feeding and the insulin so wishing you good luck. Keep good records. I put the food and amount in the cell with the numbers and that helped me to see what was working.

ETA: And no, feeding him at +2 or there after will not interfere with his numbers coming down. The onset is around +2 and the insulin is it's strongest in the first 5-6 hours of the cycle.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
It looks like his nadir is around +5. So I would feed him the bulk of his food prior to that and with just a token amount after that. ( maybe nothing after +8) And see what the numbers look like. It is wise to hold this dose if you are going to change the feeding schedule ASAP.

There will be some peeps online. I am hosting so I won't be on until later in the evening ( probably after 8 ish EST)

It is all an experiment with feeding and the insulin so wishing you good luck. Keep good records. I put the food and amount in the cell with the numbers and that helped me to see what was working.

ETA: And no, feeding him at +2 or there after will not interfere with his numbers coming down. The onset is around +2 and the insulin is it's strongest in the first 5-6 hours of the cycle.
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Ok.....I will start the new feeding schedule tonight and continue tomorrow. I will note the food in the cell but then the colors disappear, but I guess it is alright.
Just so I know, a cycle is 12 hours. So a full day has 2 cycles in it?
I hope you have a healthy happy Thanksgiving and I am glad to learn that you will be on late in the evening. I am not sure of Rosie's or Veronica's schedule for the holiday.
Will you or Rosie tell me when and if I need to change Yoyo's dosage? I am going to change his food times, so just need a day or two more to see what happens.
Again, thank you for your time.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
If you give food before his nadir then you would be feeding him when the insulin has it's strongest effect and if you give it after then is when the insulin effect is starting to wear off so that's why they mentioned that the food given after the nadir may to a point diminis the effects a bit more, that being said you need to try and have an schedule as normal as possible for you and for him so bottom line is as long as you withdraw food 2 hours before the preshoot test and that is for security reasons you will be ok
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Hi Veronica,
Thank you! Can you please let me know if you are available tonight for support. I am not sure of Rosie's schedule for tonight. Please let me know. Thanks!
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Just so I know, a cycle is 12 hours. So a full day has 2 cycles in it?
Click to expand...
Correct. One day has two 12 hour cycles .


If you put anything into the cell other than the BG number, you will have to put the color in manually. Go to the top of the SS page and find what looks like the paint can that is tipping over. Click on it and then choose the corresponding color for the number and click on it.
 
Hi Debra,
I'm available tonight and I'll be around for Thanksgiving.

I agree with Bobbie. First change the food, see how that affects, then change the dose. It would be great if changing the food takes care of it, and you don't have to increase at all. Plus, it's best to do the dose change when there will be more people available on the board.

I think you should consider setting a consistent feeding schedule, even if you don't always follow it 100%. Maybe decide how much he needs to eat on a regular basis (2, 2.5, or 3), set a schedule, and try to follow it, but also be flexible if he happens to be hungrier than usual or he throws up.

For example, Bailey gets 2 cans per day. 1/2 can at shot time. Then 1/8 of a can each at +2, +3, +4, +6. I adjust if I see some movement in her numbers that require changes. When she goes low, I give her extra food to keep her up so on her surfing days she can eat as much as 3 cans for the day.

The amounts don't have to be regular, either. So, you could do: AMPS 1/2 can, +2 1/2 can, +3 +4 +6 1/6 can. That way he's getting the bulk of the food earlier in the cycle. You can also change those last 3 if you want him to get a bit of food later in the cycle: +4 +6 +8.
Of course, you need to work around your schedule, but you get the idea.
I'm hoping that if the food is consistent in the same way that we keep the insulin consistent, that you can see more of a pattern in his numbers.

We are all happy to help. Keep asking questions. That's how you learn and help Yoyo.
:bighug:
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
Hi Debra,
I'm available tonight and I'll be around for Thanksgiving.

I agree with Bobbie. First change the food, see how that affects, then change the dose. It would be great if changing the food takes care of it, and you don't have to increase at all. Plus, it's best to do the dose change when there will be more people available on the board.

I think you should consider setting a consistent feeding schedule, even if you don't always follow it 100%. Maybe decide how much he needs to eat on a regular basis (2, 2.5, or 3), set a schedule, and try to follow it, but also be flexible if he happens to be hungrier than usual or he throws up.

For example, Bailey gets 2 cans per day. 1/2 can at shot time. Then 1/8 of a can each at +2, +3, +4, +6. I adjust if I see some movement in her numbers that require changes. When she goes low, I give her extra food to keep her up so on her surfing days she can eat as much as 3 cans for the day.

The amounts don't have to be regular, either. So, you could do: AMPS 1/2 can, +2 1/2 can, +3 +4 +6 1/6 can. That way he's getting the bulk of the food earlier in the cycle. You can also change those last 3 if you want him to get a bit of food later in the cycle: +4 +6 +8.
Of course, you need to work around your schedule, but you get the idea.
I'm hoping that if the food is consistent in the same way that we keep the insulin consistent, that you can see more of a pattern in his numbers.

We are all happy to help. Keep asking questions. That's how you learn and help Yoyo.
:bighug:
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His PMPS ws 261 because I haven't fed him in 5 hours. He was crying and following me all over the house. He ate like a piggy, had to keep moving the plate away as I was afraid he would eat too fast and then vomit. I think I will offer more food now. Right? It is ok to feed now, get the bulk in before 5+. I like the scheule that you made, the most around +2 and then tiny portions thru +5 or +6.
You told me to do this before, but I didn't fully get the picture. I do now! Thank you for being on top of things and having patience with me.
I'll try not to bother you too much tonight. Just glad you are there incase of a problem which I do not forsee.
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
I'll try not to bother you too much tonight.
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You do not bother me at all. I really am happy to help you.
I don't know as much as the other members so it works out when they login and read what I'm suggesting so they can correct me if I'm wrong. Everything I'm telling you is information that someone on here said to me at some point, for the most part.

Debra and Yoyo said:
He was crying and following me all over the house.
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Poor thing. Not sure which thread I read it on, but someone mentioned that as a diabetic cat's numbers come down, his body will use the food more efficiently and he won't be so hungry. In the meantime, you can adjust the feeding schedule to find a good balance between his hunger and his numbers.
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Hi Veronica,
Thank you! Can you please let me know if you are available tonight for support. I am not sure of Rosie's schedule for tonight. Please let me know. Thanks!
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Sorry for the late reply but I see Yoyo is looking fine and yes Iwould be around for thanksgiving it is not an actual holiday around here

And since Yoyo is currently underweight I wouldn't limit his food right now, and yes as Rosie said while a cat unregulated the lack of insulin and excess of glucose in his blood does not allow the cells in his body to get the proper nutrition so his body is literally starving that is why he's always hungry, when they get regulated their appetite usually goes back to normal
 
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Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Sorry for the late reply but I see Yoyo is looking fine and yes Iwould be around for thanksgiving it is not an actual holiday around here

And since Yoyo is currently underweight I wouldn't limit his food right now, and yes as Rosie said while a cat unregulated the lack of insulin and excess of glucose in his blood does not allow the cells in his body to get the proper nutrition so his body is literally starving that is why he's always hungry, when they get regulated their appetite usually goes back to normal
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Thank you for letting me know that you will be around on thanksgiving, means a lot....thank you:)
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Yoyo is currently underweight I wouldn't limit his food right now
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Agreed.
According to the makers of FF, you are supposed to feed:
Feed an average size adult cat 1 can per 3 to 3-1/2 pounds of body weight daily.

At 12 lbs, Yoyo is supposed to eat almost between 3 and 4 cans per day.

The example that I gave was for 2.5 cans:
AMPS 1/2 can, +2 1/2 can, +3 +4 +6 1/6 can.

If you want to give him 3 cans, you could do something like:
AMPS 1 can, +2 1 can, +3 +4 +6 1/3 can

If you want to give him 4 cans:
AMPS 1.5 can, +2 1.5, +3 +4 +6 1/3 can

These are just suggestions. You can play around with it over the next few days to see what settles him down the most. Then, in a couple of days we can re-visit the dose and see if modifying food intake helps.

So the goal here is to make sure he gets the amount of food he needs with the bulk of it fed before nadir.

Maybe @Veronica & Babu-chiri and @Bobbie And Bubba can weigh in on this suggestion. Do these amounts sound right to you?

4 cans a day seems like a lot to me, but maybe that's normal?
Bailey weighs 8lbs, and she gets 2 cans of food per day.
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
Agreed.
According to the makers of FF, you are supposed to feed:
Feed an average size adult cat 1 can per 3 to 3-1/2 pounds of body weight daily.

At 12 lbs, Yoyo is supposed to eat almost between 3 and 4 cans per day.

The example that I gave was for 2.5 cans:
AMPS 1/2 can, +2 1/2 can, +3 +4 +6 1/6 can.

If you want to give him 3 cans, you could do something like:
AMPS 1 can, +2 1 can, +3 +4 +6 1/3 can

If you want to give him 4 cans:
AMPS 1.5 can, +2 1.5, +3 +4 +6 1/3 can

These are just suggestions. You can play around with it over the next few days to see what settles him down the most. Then, in a couple of days we can re-visit the dose and see if modifying food intake helps.

So the goal here is to make sure he gets the amount of food he needs with the bulk of it fed before nadir.

Maybe @Veronica & Babu-chiri and @Bobbie And Bubba can weigh in on this suggestion. Do these amounts sound right to you?

4 cans a day seems like a lot to me, but maybe that's normal?
Bailey weighs 8lbs, and she gets 2 cans of food per day.
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You are Great! You take all the time to figure that out for me....thank you, thank you, thank you...etc....:cat::cat::cat::cat::cat:
It seems that you would like me to get the bulk in before testing +2. And then feed him during +2 hour?
It is hard to get large amounts into him. And then I worry that he will throw up. I am trying my best for him. I am posting on the spreadsheet.
How do I color the cell back in?
Thanks again!!!!
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
It is hard to get large amounts into him. And then I worry that he will throw up. I am trying my best for him. I am posting on the spreadsheet.
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Then don't try to give him a lot, allow him to have small portions during the day (almost free feed if possible) that way food actually has the less impact on blood glucose levels

Debra and Yoyo said:
How do I color the cell back in?
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position yoursef in the cell then go to the icon that looks like a little bucket click on it and select the color you want
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Then don't try to give him a lot, allow him to have small portions during the day (almost free feed if possible) that way food actually has the less impact on blood glucose levels


position yoursef in the cell then go to the icon that looks like a little bucket click on it and select the color you want
Click to expand...
Ok...thank you. Will try all suggestions. I thank everyone!
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Then don't try to give him a lot, allow him to have small portions during the day (almost free feed if possible) t
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Exactly. You are not trying to force food into him. Let him eat what he needs.

If I give Bailey her can of food, she will eat it all at once. I know it's better for her pancreas to eat little bits at a time so I ration it for her. The goal in the future would be to give her the entire can for that cycle, and let her eat it at her own pace, but that just doesn't work for her. Every Cat Is Different. Just find the feeding format that works best for Yoyo.
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
According to the makers of FF, you are supposed to feed:
Feed an average size adult cat 1 can per 3 to 3-1/2 pounds of body weight daily.
Click to expand...
The cat food companies have the servings per lbs a lot higher than they should be. Here is a good formula for feeding: The ideal weight of the cat times 13.5 + 70. As an example, if the cat's ideal weight is 10 lbs times X 13 .5 = 135 + 70 =205.

Put the ideal weight of the cat into the formula.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Yes the amount of calories.
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Yoyo will eat anywhere from 2 cans - 3 cans a day, (depends on the day). His ideal weight should be 13.5lbs so the formula would be 13.5 x 13.5 = 182.25 + 70 = 252.25 calories.
I can't remember the calories of a can of fancy feast classic pate...either 67 or 90 something calories. So around 3 cans sounds about right for Yoyo.
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Yoyo did better pre+5. After +5 he started going up. I didn't feed him anything after +6 where I fed him 1/6 can of fancy feast.
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I don't know why it would go up that much. I probably would have tried a second test strip to confirm the number. Let's see what he does at +2.
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Yoyo will eat anywhere from 2 cans - 3 cans a day, (depends on the day). His ideal weight should be 13.5lbs so the formula would be 13.5 x 13.5 = 182.25 + 70 = 252.25 calories.
I can't remember the calories of a can of fancy feast classic pate...either 67 or 90 something calories. So around 3 cans sounds about right for Yoyo.
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I believe the classics are around 97 calories a can.
 
Rosie & Bailey said:
I don't know why it would go up that much. I probably would have tried a second test strip to confirm the number. Let's see what he does at +2.
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Thanks for still being with us.:D
In the morning if I want to get him back to his AMPS at around 7am, can I start an hour earlier or is that pushing it? How about if I start at 7:30am instead of 8am?
 
Debra and Yoyo said:
Thanks for still being with us.:D
In the morning if I want to get him back to his AMPS at around 7am, can I start an hour earlier or is that pushing it? How about if I start at 7:30am instead of 8am?
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When you are trying to get back on schedule, you can shot 30 minutes earlier a day once a day or 15 minutest early each cycle . Remember, a early shot can act like a dose increase. So, 7:30 AM tomorrow shouldn't be an issue, unless...... he gives you an unusually lower pre shot tomorrow morning, then you would not want to shoot a lot earlier.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
When you are trying to get back on schedule, you can shot 30 minutes earlier a day once a day or 15 minutest early each cycle . Remember, a early shot can act like a dose increase. So, 7:30 AM tomorrow shouldn't be an issue, unless...... he gives you an unusually lower pre shot tomorrow morning, then you would not want to shoot a lot earlier.
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Thank you!
 
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