11/20 Webster AMPS=564PMPS=223 +1.5=120 +2.5=61 +3=67

Status
Not open for further replies.

Websterthecat

Member Since 2014
It is 1 hour 15 minutes until Webster's next dose. I just woke up and took his BG. It was at at 512 @ +10.75. (see sheet)

He seems to have eaten some dry food, some wet food over night. His demeanor seems good. Hes happy, purring, walking around, looking out windows, meowing, etc.

Skipped a dose last night due to hectic day and low numbers. We talked about a dose reduction to .5u last night. I feel better with a number of 512 although it is very high.

I'm suspecting that he is going to crash fast when he gets the insulin.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Webster is definitely very responsive to his insulin, that's for sure! Even though he's so high, getting a +1 is not a bad idea, just to see if he is going to come tumbling down at lightning speed again. I'm glad he's feeling better today, too! I bet it was the low numbers - like Wendy said, even though they were normal numbers, his little body just isn't used to them anymore. Over time, that will change.

Have a great day, guys!
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Amy&TrixieCat said:
Webster is definitely very responsive to his insulin, that's for sure! Even though he's so high, getting a +1 is not a bad idea, just to see if he is going to come tumbling down at lightning speed again. I'm glad he's feeling better today, too! I bet it was the low numbers - like Wendy said, even though they were normal numbers, his little body just isn't used to them anymore. Over time, that will change.

Have a great day, guys!

How about a +2? Would that work?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

She means test at +1 hours after the shot, not 1 unit of insulin.

I'd be cautions since he's dropping so hard and give only 0.5 units.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

A +2 test is probably fine, too. I guess I'm just feeling overly cautious since Webster does like a good dive!
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

BJM said:
She means test at +1 hours after the shot, not 1 unit of insulin.

I'd be cautions since he's dropping so hard and give only 0.5 units.

Got it. Thank you. :smile:
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Yep, 0.5U dose it is. I'm sorry if I was unclear when I mentioned th "+1" test! Work it safely-but-well, Webster!!!
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Mike:

I think I'd mentioned that Gabby likes to capture my attention with early, fast dives. Generally, getting a +2 test is fine since in most cats, the +2 is about the same number as the pre-shot since numbers are recovering from a food spike and Lantus onset is beginning. I routinely would get a +2 until it became evident that Gabby was already dropping like a rock at +2 during some of her cycles. If you look at her SS, you'll see that I now test frequently at the beginning of the cycle. My point here is that when you test is largely dependent on your cat. The point of testing is so you know when onset and nadir occur for your cat. Not all kitties read the Lantus rule book and have their nadir at +6. Having the data allows you to have some small degree of control over the cycle. (That said, kitties are notorious for changing up what they typically do just to make sure you're paying attention.)

As far as yesterday, I agree -- I think Webster has forgotten what normal numbers feel like. In addition, some kitties feel pretty lousy when there are big swings in BG. One of the longer term members here, Libby, some time ago commented that she had a friend of the family who was diabetic. She told Libby that initially she felt much better being in higher than lower numbers. After a while and once her BG stabilized, she mentioned that not only did she feel so much better in lower numbers but she couldn't imagine how she could have felt better when her numbers were elevated. However, given Webster has a history of DKA, being cautious makes a great deal of sense.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Amy&TrixieCat said:
Yep, 0.5U dose it is. I'm sorry if I was unclear when I mentioned th "+1" test! Work it safely-but-well, Webster!!!


No, you were perfectly clear. My mind right now... That's a completely different story.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

Sienne and Gabby said:
Mike:

I think I'd mentioned that Gabby likes to capture my attention with early, fast dives. Generally, getting a +2 test is fine since in most cats, the +2 is about the same number as the pre-shot since numbers are recovering from a food spike and Lantus onset is beginning. I routinely would get a +2 until it became evident that Gabby was already dropping like a rock at +2 during some of her cycles. If you look at her SS, you'll see that I now test frequently at the beginning of the cycle. My point here is that when you test is largely dependent on your cat. The point of testing is so you know when onset and nadir occur for your cat. Not all kitties read the Lantus rule book and have their nadir at +6. Having the data allows you to have some small degree of control over the cycle. (That said, kitties are notorious for changing up what they typically do just to make sure you're paying attention.)

As far as yesterday, I agree -- I think Webster has forgotten what normal numbers feel like. In addition, some kitties feel pretty lousy when there are big swings in BG. One of the longer term members here, Libby, some time ago commented that she had a friend of the family who was diabetic. She told Libby that initially she felt much better being in higher than lower numbers. After a while and once her BG stabilized, she mentioned that not only did she feel so much better in lower numbers but she couldn't imagine how she could have felt better when her numbers were elevated. However, given Webster has a history of DKA, being cautious makes a great deal of sense.

Thank you Sienne. Wow. Looking at your SS, you are quite dedicated!

Ever since this whole diabetes things started with Webster I have not been able to work. I've been spending every waking hour (many hours that I should be sleeping) researching, checking BG and forcing food on him to raise fast drops. It has taken over my life and I'm a complete nervous wreck! I really need to get back to work but I feel as If I can't leave him in this condition. I panic when I see his levels drop as they have been doing and end up spending my entire day trying to get him to eat so that his BG's go up.

Any advice? When is this all going to end? I don't know how much more I can take.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

Moving forward... I still don't know how to handle these drops. I panic and start freaking out!

He is very difficult to deal with when his BG's are dropping. His appetite seems to completely diminish and about the only thing that he will eat is his Temptation treats. Sometimes he refuses these.

He is still trying to get accustom to wet food. If I put a tablespoon of HC wet food gravy in front of him he's never seems to be interested. Last night I discovered that he has a preference for Gerber Turkey and Gravy (Thank you so much Elise!)

I'm still trying to transition him into LC wet food. I give him 2 bowls of food - old cheap dry and then watered down LC. He seems to eat about 75% dry, 25% wet.

Will the Gerber's work to stop a fast drop? What other food should I give him when he starts dropping fast like he has been.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

I did that in the early days....
As you start to understand the process ( and it is a fast learning curve in the beginning) , you won't panic so much .
But in the beginning , it is rough.
I barely slept.... I read everything.... including every one's condo's trying to learn as much as I could.
I was afraid mine would drop too low at night.
Over time, I learned her pattern and it got better. And then we became one of the lucky ones to get remission. ( 2 yrs +)

I know it's hard.
But you have many friends and supporters right here.... to help you get thru it.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

I wonder if it would help to try some other foods....
Mine is so picky that I often have several different cans open in the fridge... she won't eat the same thing two meals in a row.


Here is a shortcut shopping list that
you can print.
It might help if you go for some of the 8 % cans for now.

You've got to find some varieties that get his interest.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

rhiannon and shadow said:
I wonder if it would help to try some other foods....
Mine is so picky that I often have several different cans open in the fridge... she won't eat the same thing two meals in a row.


Here is a shortcut shopping list that
you can print.
It might help if you go for some of the 8 % cans for now.

You've got to find some varieties that get his interest.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I must have 5 different varieties of LC food and 4 varieties of Med/hi carb food. I must have about 7 opened cans of food in my fridge right now. It just seems as if he has no interest in eating sometimes, especially when he drops of fast.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster Dosing advice

rhiannon and shadow said:
I did that in the early days....
As you start to understand the process ( and it is a fast learning curve in the beginning) , you won't panic so much .
But in the beginning , it is rough.
I barely slept.... I read everything.... including every one's condo's trying to learn as much as I could.
I was afraid mine would drop too low at night.
Over time, I learned her pattern and it got better. And then we became one of the lucky ones to get remission. ( 2 yrs +)

I know it's hard.
But you have many friends and supporters right here.... to help you get thru it.

Thank you for the reassurance. I'm learning so much from you guys each day and feel increasing more confident when it comes to managing his diabetes. Handling fast drops - now that's a different story. I still don't feel comfortable handling these.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

It might really help to call the vet for a prescription for ondansetron 4 mg.
My pharmacy gives me the generic so it isn't expensive.
Ondansetron is for nausea and then Cyprohetadine 4 mg is for appetite stimulant.
You don't want to just give a stimulant without addressing the nausea.

Does Webster smell the food and kind of smack his lips and turn away? That's a sign.
It sounds like since he was a dry eater before that getting some Fortiflora might also make a difference.


My cat doesn't eat a lot as of late and I'm having to give these medications and they make a difference.
She's not really showing signs but she sure does turn away from her food offering.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

Gerbers is a low carb food, about 3% I think. It might be that if Webster will eat more before his insulin and at +1 you might be able to slow the dive. With Max I've had the opposite issue. I was feeding too much at pre-shot and +1 and he got a big food spike even with just 3% so every cat is different. At least I think that is what has happened. It's either that or Max is finally getting used to normal numbers. How much of the jar are you giving him at a time?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536

+1=536

28 pts in the past hour. Certainly not the 128 points that I saw yesterday. Fingers crossed.. Will check again in an hour.

He just went to his food bowl and grazed on dry food and LC wet - a little bit of both. Seems active. Moving around, grooming his self.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

rhiannon and shadow said:
It might really help to call the vet for a prescription for ondansetron 4 mg.
My pharmacy gives me the generic so it isn't expensive.
Ondansetron is for nausea and then Cyprohetadine 4 mg is for appetite stimulant.
You don't want to just give a stimulant without addressing the nausea.

Does Webster smell the food and kind of smack his lips and turn away? That's a sign.
It sounds like since he was a dry eater before that getting some Fortiflora might also make a difference.


My cat doesn't eat a lot as of late and I'm having to give these medications and they make a difference.
She's not really showing signs but she sure does turn away from her food offering.

I have noticed that he has a bit of interest in food when he has energy. This usually occurs when his BG are higher than 100. It seems as if hes not interested in food when his numbers are really low like yesterday. So you think an appetite stimulant and anti-nausea med would be a good idea in this instance? I really don't want to load him up on a bunch of meds unless it's really needed. You know?

I'll watch to see if he smacks his lips and turns away. Haven't noticed this in particular.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

tiffmaxee said:
Gerbers is a low carb food, about 3% I think. It might be that if Webster will eat more before his insulin and at +1 you might be able to slow the dive. With Max I've had the opposite issue. I was feeding too much at pre-shot and +1 and he got a big food spike even with just 3% so every cat is different. At least I think that is what has happened. It's either that or Max is finally getting used to normal numbers. How much of the jar are you giving him at a time?

He ate about 1/2 a jar last night and less than 1/4 this morning. He has been grazing on his dry food and wet food since last night.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536

I think there is a real possibility that he is nauseous. Ondansetron works really well for Max. He has had chronic pancreatitis and his only symptom is inappetence. I learned with Tiffany that they don't necessarily throw up when nauseous. She would lick the liquid from her food but not eat and I thought she was just being picky. Max started with l mg of ondansetron twice a day but needed 1/8 of a cyproheptadine to eat. After months of this and not being able to get him off the drugs it was suggested by a vet to increase the ondansetron to 2 mg and that did the trick. You can get the generic of ondansetron at Costco and you don't need to be a member to use their pharmacy. You need a prescription from your vet or they can call it in or fax it to Costco. Look it up on Good RX to get the best price near you. I see 60 cost $23 at Costco. Of course you can buy less. I'd get at least 30 though as the price goes down with volume and you can use it too should you get nauseous.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536

It's hard to say for sure...kitties do a good job of hiding it when they don't feel well, but trying an anti-nausea med might not be a bad idea if he continues to have appy issues. Personally, I would try the anti-nausea by itself first and see if that helps - a lot of times, once you remove nausea from the picture, the appy will return. If that doesn't work, then I would try adding in the appy stimulant. You definitely don't want to give an appy stimulant to a nauseated kitty, though!

And yes, I know it's hard to believe, but it DOES get easier, and it DOES get less stressful!
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536

Thank you. We made an apt with vet at 2pm. I will request both medications.

How about the fortiflora probiotic that was mentioned in another post? Should I start with just the AN and PB and then introduce the app stimulant if necessary? Are all 3 prescription only?

Just check his BG @ +2= 474. He dropped 28 mg/dl the first hour, 62 MG/Dl the second hour. Are we headed for another crash?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536

Amy&TrixieCat said:
It's hard to say for sure...kitties do a good job of hiding it when they don't feel well, but trying an anti-nausea med might not be a bad idea if he continues to have appy issues. Personally, I would try the anti-nausea by itself first and see if that helps - a lot of times, once you remove nausea from the picture, the appy will return. If that doesn't work, then I would try adding in the appy stimulant. You definitely don't want to give an appy stimulant to a nauseated kitty, though!

And yes, I know it's hard to believe, but it DOES get easier, and it DOES get less stressful!

Anti-nausea first sounds like a solid plan.

We have a vet appointment set up for tomorrow @ 2pm. This will be a new vet because we never took him to the vet since we had him. Unfortunately, his first vet visit with us was when we were out of town 8 hours away from home and he had DKA.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474

We'll see what your vetty has to say, but I personally usually prefer to make one change at a time. If the vet thinks Webster is actually nauseated, I'd go with the anti-nausea first. I'd probably try the fortiflora before the appy stimulant to see what happens, just because the stimulants can have some side-effects, whereas the fortiflora is just a probiotic that also acts as a flavor-enhancer. If that doesn't cut it, then I would add in the appy stimulant.

The anti-nausea and appy stimulant are both prescription meds. FortiFlora is supposedly only available through your vet; however, I do order mine through Amazon (no script required). Maybe get some from your vet to get started, then order online if Webster likes it (chances are Amazon will be cheaper than the vet).
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

He seems to be coming down slowly. I am optimistic that he won't crash.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474

Amy&TrixieCat said:
We'll see what your vetty has to say, but I personally usually prefer to make one change at a time. If the vet thinks Webster is actually nauseated, I'd go with the anti-nausea first. I'd probably try the fortiflora before the appy stimulant to see what happens, just because the stimulants can have some side-effects, whereas the fortiflora is just a probiotic that also acts as a flavor-enhancer. If that doesn't cut it, then I would add in the appy stimulant.

The anti-nausea and appy stimulant are both prescription meds. FortiFlora is supposedly only available through your vet; however, I do order mine through Amazon (no script required). Maybe get some from your vet to get started, then order online if Webster likes it (chances are Amazon will be cheaper than the vet).

Excellent info. Thank you!
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474

Hi Mike,
You're doing a great job. Feline Diabetes is a steep learning curve, but it all comes together and gets much easier. Keep in mind that you are in the early stages of treatment. Also, you don't know how long Webster had been diabetic. Also, every cat is different (ECID), and what works for some doesn't always work in the same way for others. It will be instructive to see what your vet says. If you can, take along a copy of the Tight Regulation Protocol so that he knows that you are following a plan that has worked for many diabetic cats using Lantus. (Lantus is dosed much differently than the older types of insulin that many vets are most familiar with.)

Fortiflora is not a prescription drug. You can buy it at your vet's, but you can also buy it on Amazon or any of the PetFood websites. It is a probiotic that comes as a powder (small box of about 25 sachet envelopes). You sprinkle it on food. You don't have to use a whole envelope at a time. You can use just a little to "flavor up" the food. It contains "animal digest", which is what dry-food manufacturers spray on their dry food to entice the cats to eat it. Since Webster is a dry-food eater, Fortiflora might help him transition to wet food more easily.

Good luck at your vet appointment this afternoon. I hope that Webster will begin to settle down on the new, lower .5-unit dose.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

tiffmaxee said:
He seems to be coming down slowly. I am optimistic that he won't crash.

I agree!

28 mg/dl drop first hour
62 mg/dl drop second hour
36 mg/dl drop third hour

MUCH better than yesterday!! :-D

I'm going outside to rake some leaves and to clear my mind.

Websters stretched out on the bed napping and smiling. He's feeling much better than yesterday and is SO thankful that his daddy finally figured out how to check his BG without butchering his ears. I'm using the clear cap on the device with 30g lancets. Warm up the ear with a rice sock, estimate where the tip of the ear is without hitting the main vein and press the button. I get a little drop almost every time. Sometimes I completely miss the ear so I put a fresh lancet in and try again.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Mike,
You're doing a great job. Feline Diabetes is a steep learning curve, but it all comes together and gets much easier. Keep in mind that you are in the early stages of treatment. Also, you don't know how long Webster had been diabetic. Also, every cat is different (ECID), and what works for some doesn't always work in the same way for others. It will be instructive to see what your vet says. If you can, take along a copy of the Tight Regulation Protocol so that he knows that you are following a plan that has worked for many diabetic cats using Lantus. (Lantus is dosed much differently than the older types of insulin that many vets are most familiar with.)

Fortiflora is not a prescription drug. You can buy it at your vet's, but you can also buy it on Amazon or any of the PetFood websites. It is a probiotic that comes as a powder (small box of about 25 sachet envelopes). You sprinkle it on food. You don't have to use a whole envelope at a time. You can use just a little to "flavor up" the food. It contains "animal digest", which is what dry-food manufacturers spray on their dry food to entice the cats to eat it. Since Webster is a dry-food eater, Fortiflora might help him transition to wet food more easily.

Good luck at your vet appointment this afternoon. I hope that Webster will begin to settle down on the new, lower .5-unit dose.

Ella & Rusty

Thank you for the info! Where's the link again to the tight regulation protocol?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

Since you skipped last night the shed will need to rebuild, so today should be a slow recovery day. Really nice gentle slide today! :-D :-D

Fortiflora is a probiotic and you don't need a Rx for it, but few retail stores carry it. However, it isn't the probiotic effect that you are looking for here. You are really using it as a flavor enhancer. Purina flavors it w/ the same "animal digest" that they coat dry food with to convince cats that that stuff really is food. It smells and tastes great to them!

probiotics are great for cats, but get one that has live cultures. Those are usually refrigerated in health food stores.

BTW, Gerber's Turkey is 15% carbs 10%carbs, the chicken is 8%. Baby food can entice cats to eat but it is not a complete diet and many essential minerals are absent, especially Taurine.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

Here's the link to the protocol. When you need to find it again it is in the stickies at the top of the forum. Print out the PDF for your vet, that is the latest published findings from Roomp & Rand. We've modified things a bit here, just from day to day observations.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

Ann , where did you get that carb count ? I just looked it up and saw 0% carbs for Gerber's 2nd. I have read 3% in the past. :-|
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

Where did you look it up? I've never seen a list for the baby foods, unless you mean the new list on Tanya's site, but that is DRY MATTER. DR Lisa's list uses METABOLIZED ENERGY. I did the calculations,
  • (grams of carb/jar x 4 (kcal/g of carbs)) = kcal from carbs /jar Ă· kcal/jar = carbs/kcal of food x 100 = %carbs ME
So from the label info:
  • Chicken (2g carbs x 4) Ă· 100 kcal/jar = .8 = 8%
    Turkey (2g carbs x 4) Ă· 80 kcal/jar = .10 = 10% , sorry I screwed up that calculation before or the recipe changed I just rechecked their website
    Ham (2g carbs x 4) Ă· 80 kcal/jar = .10 = 10%
    Beef (2g carbs x 40) Ă· 70 kcal/jar = .113 = 11.3%
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564

Websterthecat said:
Thank you Sienne. Wow. Looking at your SS, you are quite dedicated!

Ever since this whole diabetes things started with Webster I have not been able to work. I've been spending every waking hour (many hours that I should be sleeping) researching, checking BG and forcing food on him to raise fast drops. It has taken over my life and I'm a complete nervous wreck! I really need to get back to work but I feel as If I can't leave him in this condition. I panic when I see his levels drop as they have been doing and end up spending my entire day trying to get him to eat so that his BG's go up.

Any advice? When is this all going to end? I don't know how much more I can take.

I totally get how you are feeling. When remi was diagnosed in September i couldn't sleep, I cried all the time, I couldn't eat and couldn't focus on work at all. I would say it took me about two weeks to begin to feel more in control. This came when I got a better routine going, remi s numbers got a little better and I began to eat better myself.

You are doing great and it will get easier. If he is running a little higher today than take advantage of it and get some sleep.

I know you want to get water into him but I wonder if by watering down his wet food you are diluting its flavour ? Just a thought.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

Yeah, my first month I was so exhausted I dozed off and totaled my car! :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

(((Mike)))

Most of us can identify with your stress, exhaustion, anxiety, fear of the dives, etc. The early weeks of FD, even without DKA and a kitty without an appetite, are stressful. For me, for any kitty, FD or not, not eating stresses me more than anything. It takes a lot of work to get them to eat and it's so important that they do. I agree that it's a good idea to discuss the ondansetron with your vet and an appetite stimulant. I like cyproheptadine better than mirtazapine because you can give it more often, if need be. A lot of vets will automatically give mirtazapine so see what your vet will give you if you ask for the cypro. A lot of times, it only takes a sliver.....not the full dose the vet will tell you to give. I'd start out slow on the stimulant, if needed, and increase if he needs to move up to the prescribed dose. You should discuss this with your vet as well.

The dives are also extremely stressful. I told someone the other day, maybe you, I'd rather deal with flat low numbers than dives. It seems we have a lot of divers these days, including my Gracie lately. When you can get him to eat, you will learn the best way to control his dives as Sienne has done with Gabby. I've had to change the foods I use for Gracie because the first one, which controlled the dives marvelously, she developed a sensitivity to and started vomiting with it. The second one worked well, too, but it had fish in it and we've take her off all fish. The third didn't do the job. So now I'm using Soulistic Good Karma that I get at Petco. Elise uses it, too. It seems to be doing the trick and Gracie loves it. I buy it in the packages but the cans have more calories so you might want to use the cans to keep Webster's calorie intake up.

Life does get back to normal. FD is all consuming at first but I promise, you will learn to roll with it. We all have to because life does go on around us and we have to be in it. But don't rush yourself right now.....just get as much rest as you can and be kind to yourself. You're doing great.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

Ann & Tess said:
Since you skipped last night the shed will need to rebuild, so today should be a slow recovery day. Really nice gentle slide today! :-D :-D

Fortiflora is a probiotic and you don't need a Rx for it, but few retail stores carry it. However, it isn't the probiotic effect that you are looking for here. You are really using it as a flavor enhancer. Purina flavors it w/ the same "animal digest" that they coat dry food with to convince cats that that stuff really is food. It smells and tastes great to them!

probiotics are great for cats, but get one that has live cultures. Those are usually refrigerated in health food stores.

BTW, Gerber's Turkey is 15% carbs 10%carbs, the chicken is 8%. Baby food can entice cats to eat but it is not a complete diet and many essential minerals are absent, especially Taurine.

Thank you for the info on Fortiflora and looking into the Gerber carbs.

I'm not quite understanding. So should I get Fortiflora for the flavor enhancer and then another probiotic with live cultures?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438

Ann & Tess said:
Here's the link to the protocol. When you need to find it again it is in the stickies at the top of the forum. Print out the PDF for your vet, that is the latest published findings from Roomp & Rand. We've modified things a bit here, just from day to day observations.

Excellent. Will print and bring along with SS and other vet patient charts. Also created a document with facts and observations to get the vet up to date on what is going on.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

Marje and Gracie said:
(((Mike)))

Most of us can identify with your stress, exhaustion, anxiety, fear of the dives, etc. The early weeks of FD, even without DKA and a kitty without an appetite, are stressful. For me, for any kitty, FD or not, not eating stresses me more than anything. It takes a lot of work to get them to eat and it's so important that they do. I agree that it's a good idea to discuss the ondansetron with your vet and an appetite stimulant. I like cyproheptadine better than mirtazapine because you can give it more often, if need be. A lot of vets will automatically give mirtazapine so see what your vet will give you if you ask for the cypro. A lot of times, it only takes a sliver.....not the full dose the vet will tell you to give. I'd start out slow on the stimulant, if needed, and increase if he needs to move up to the prescribed dose. You should discuss this with your vet as well.

The dives are also extremely stressful. I told someone the other day, maybe you, I'd rather deal with flat low numbers than dives. It seems we have a lot of divers these days, including my Gracie lately. When you can get him to eat, you will learn the best way to control his dives as Sienne has done with Gabby. I've had to change the foods I use for Gracie because the first one, which controlled the dives marvelously, she developed a sensitivity to and started vomiting with it. The second one worked well, too, but it had fish in it and we've take her off all fish. The third didn't do the job. So now I'm using Soulistic Good Karma that I get at Petco. Elise uses it, too. It seems to be doing the trick and Gracie loves it. I buy it in the packages but the cans have more calories so you might want to use the cans to keep Webster's calorie intake up.

Life does get back to normal. FD is all consuming at first but I promise, you will learn to roll with it. We all have to because life does go on around us and we have to be in it. But don't rush yourself right now.....just get as much rest as you can and be kind to yourself. You're doing great.

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll write it down and mention it to the dr tomorrow.

I really hope things get back to normal.

Webster has been resting all day and hasn't come out to eat. What do I do If I cant get him to eat before his next insulin shot in 5.5 hours. How much is the minimum that he should be eating.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

Good luck at the vet today Mike. And great news on getting a better handle on testing. :thumbup I'd say Webster is high enough now you can ease off the rest of the cycle. When cats give you high numbers, it's good to walk away from the meter and do something for yourself. Or catch up on work. For me that was one of the most important things to learn when I was new, was when it was OK to just let the cat be.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

Wendy&Neko said:
Good luck at the vet today Mike. And great news on getting a better handle on testing. :thumbup I'd say Webster is high enough now you can ease off the rest of the cycle. When cats give you high numbers, it's good to walk away from the meter and do something for yourself. Or catch up on work. For me that was one of the most important things to learn when I was new, was when it was OK to just let the cat be.

Absolutely. I have been outside raking leaves all day after seeing the first 3 hours.

My concern now is that he needs his insulin in 4.5 hours and has been resting comfortably on the bed since this morning. I know cats sleep a lot but I never paid much attention to his sleep cycles. I'm hoping that he wakes up energized and ready to eat. What are the steps if its getting close to shooting and he's not eating? I'm interested in the flavor enhancing PB that were mentioned earlier. Any idea what Ann was talking about when she mentioned Fortiflora and other "live culture". See above question in reference to Fortiflora.

Thank you
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +3=438 +4.5=412

There are numerous other probiotics for pets out there. Fortiflora is also a probiotic, but it has the added benefit of being appetizing to most cats so sit can be used by sprinkling on food to help with eating.

For tonight, do the PM test, see how much he eats, and if you are having problems with that, try enticements. I believe Julie posted the list, but it includes the FortiFlora sprinkled on top, babyfood meat, parmesan cheese, oregano, catnip, tuna water, etc.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +10.25=304

What a long thread!

ok, catching up. I'd add a couple of things.

It's common for cats to act like normal numbers took all of their energy. I think it must be like when you are used to having daily caffeine, and then you skip a morning. That's your natural state, but it feels like crap because you are accustomed to the high. The "cure" for this is to help him spend as much time as possible in normal numbers. He will get reaccustomed to them and he'll likely feel like his former self again.

the fortiflora is a probiotic and most cats find its taste pretty yummy. I'd try it before trying an appy stimulant.

As long as he's eating some at shot time, you really want to be shooting something. Skipping insulin in a cat with DKA so recently is very dangerous. Are you still checking for ketones? I'd be doing it twice a day at this point. Ketones can appear and go from small to large in just hours, so it's really important to stick with this.

It gets infinitely easier. Infinitely. People do this for years on end - you're unnerved because it's all so new and you don't have confidence in what's likely to happen next. All cats have patterns, although they often differ from each other's. Webster's patterns will emerge and you'll have some predictability when they do. In the meantime, we do want him to keep eating, but oh, if there is any way to get him switched to the low carb canned instead of the dry, i suspect his high bgs would improve tremendously. If we can reduce the highs, then he may not have the plummets that he's been having.

Is he done with the antibiotics?

How did the vet visit go?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +10.25=304

I saw you asking about food ... is he eating enough... here earlier and your new post in the main forum.

I think it gets a lot more complicated when dry food is still involved.
It definitely makes it more complicated to do the tight regulation. Cats eating dry food aren't as easily manipulated with food .
I know that has to do with how the dry food is metabolized differently than wet.

So.... others will be along to explain that part better....
and the most important part right now is getting him to eat .... and to eat consistently.

But right now , since you are feeding both....
I'm not sure how to answer how much he should be eating....
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 +10.25=304

rhiannon and shadow said:
I saw you asking about food ... is he eating enough... here earlier and your new post in the main forum.

I think it gets a lot more complicated when dry food is still involved.
It definitely makes it more complicated to do the tight regulation. Cats eating dry food aren't as easily manipulated with food .
I know that has to do with how the dry food is metabolized differently than wet.

So.... others will be along to explain that part better....
and the most important part right now is getting him to eat .... and to eat consistently.

But right now , since you are feeding both....
I'm not sure how to answer how much he should be eating....

Thank you. I understand how answering this question is difficult. He's eating a little bit of both but I couldn't tell you exactly how much in 24 hours. Today switched all of his bowls to clear Pyrex and drew a line where I filled it to. I hope this will help to determine approximately how much he is eating.

As for now, due to fear of the possibility of ketones forming I just gave him 0.5u insulin although his number are showing signs of dropping off. He ate a little more dry food about an hour ago. It may still be metabolizing would be my guess.

Either way, I felt that his numbers were high enough to shoot tonight although they were starting to come down prior to insulin shot.

I'm going to try to entice him to eat more and if he starts to drop off start force feeding him low carb food. Does this sound like a good plan?
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 PMPS=223

For my cats, it seems to average out to 0.5 ounces per pound, am, and also pm.

A digital food scale can be helpful in measuring the food, especially one that lets you 0 the scale after weighing the dish.
 
Re: 11/20 Webster AMPS=564 +1=536 +2=474 PMPS=223

BJM said:
For my cats, it seems to average out to 0.5 ounces per pound, am, and also pm.

A digital food scale can be helpful in measuring the food, especially one that lets you 0 the scale after weighing the dish.

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of using a scale? Going to grab it now!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top