11/20 Chispa, 151 AMPS, 62 +3.25, 48 +4.25, 63 +5, 161 PMPS

Karen and Chispa (GA)

Very Active Member
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/11-17-chispa-156-amps.295777/#post-3221133

Good evening to all! (or more likely good morning to most, by the time you read this)

First, a shout-out to @Staci & Ivy for suggesting I try the "roll method" after a string of fur shots. Staci, thanks to your suggestion, the last five out of seven preshots have been blue, and green nadirs are becoming the norm once again. With the lower numbers, her water consumption is HALF of what it was before, which also means she's making it to the litterbox twice as often, and more importantly, I'm sure it's much easier on her kidneys. Chispa and I both thank you!

Second, huge thanks to @Wendy&Neko for the link to a long and detailed article on probiotics that sent me down a cat nutrition rabbit hole. I'm copying the link here for anyone who's interested:
https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/probiotics-for-cats---why-and-which-ones.html

One very important article I found while in the rabbit hole was about pet food regulations and labeling. I wouldn't recommend actually reading the article unless you are prepared to be shocked and completely grossed out by what goes into some pet foods (it's SO much worse than the chicken feet and beaks we already knew about). To spare you the details, I'll pass along my executive summary of pet food labeling:

1. The 95% rule: An ingredient used as the name of the food has to be at least 95% of the contents (so "Tuna Cat Food" is 95% tuna).
2. The 25% rule: An ingredient used with a qualifying word like "dinner" or "formula" has to be 25% of the contents (so "Tuna Formula Cat Food" or "Tuna Dinner in Gravy" could be only 25% tuna).
3. The 3% rule: If "with" is part of the product name, that ingredient has to be at least 3% of the contents (so "Cat Food with Tuna" might contain only 3% tuna, and this is perfectly legal).

This could be a clue to Chispa's weight loss. The Evanger's "Rabbit Dinner" I've been feeding her may well be 75% cranberries and squash and all the other fruits and vegetables that follow rabbit in the long list of ingredients. It would also explain why the phosphorous content of this food is so much lower than that of the Instinct Original Rabbit that I also feed her, as well as the difference in cost (about half).

I'm beginning to understand why some people feed their cats a homemade diet. I couldn't do it -- I don't eat meat, and there's no way I'm going to grind up animal parts in my kitchen -- but it would solve a lot of the problems and confusion that come with commercial foods.
 
Sorry about the rabbit hole, but hope you got what you needed on the probiotics. Speaking of rabbits, the Evangers should have info on what % of protein and a lot of veggies won't be protein.

I didn't grind meat, but rather got most of it from the local exotic meat butcher who ground it for me. Then added premix and water - done, other than weighing out a days worth of food to put in tubs for the freezer.
 
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/11-17-chispa-156-amps.295777/#post-3221133

Good evening to all! (or more likely good morning to most, by the time you read this)

First, a shout-out to @Staci & Ivy for suggesting I try the "roll method" after a string of fur shots. Staci, thanks to your suggestion, the last five out of seven preshots have been blue, and green nadirs are becoming the norm once again. With the lower numbers, her water consumption is HALF of what it was before, which also means she's making it to the litterbox twice as often, and more importantly, I'm sure it's much easier on her kidneys. Chispa and I both thank you!

Second, huge thanks to @Wendy&Neko for the link to a long and detailed article on probiotics that sent me down a cat nutrition rabbit hole. I'm copying the link here for anyone who's interested:
https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/probiotics-for-cats---why-and-which-ones.html

One very important article I found while in the rabbit hole was about pet food regulations and labeling. I wouldn't recommend actually reading the article unless you are prepared to be shocked and completely grossed out by what goes into some pet foods (it's SO much worse than the chicken feet and beaks we already knew about). To spare you the details, I'll pass along my executive summary of pet food labeling:

1. The 95% rule: An ingredient used as the name of the food has to be at least 95% of the contents (so "Tuna Cat Food" is 95% tuna).
2. The 25% rule: An ingredient used with a qualifying word like "dinner" or "formula" has to be 25% of the contents (so "Tuna Formula Cat Food" or "Tuna Dinner in Gravy" could be only 25% tuna).
3. The 3% rule: If "with" is part of the product name, that ingredient has to be at least 3% of the contents (so "Cat Food with Tuna" might contain only 3% tuna, and this is perfectly legal).

This could be a clue to Chispa's weight loss. The Evanger's "Rabbit Dinner" I've been feeding her may well be 75% cranberries and squash and all the other fruits and vegetables that follow rabbit in the long list of ingredients. It would also explain why the phosphorous content of this food is so much lower than that of the Instinct Original Rabbit that I also feed her, as well as the difference in cost (about half).

I'm beginning to understand why some people feed their cats a homemade diet. I couldn't do it -- I don't eat meat, and there's no way I'm going to grind up animal parts in my kitchen -- but it would solve a lot of the problems and confusion that come with commercial foods.
Hi Karen, I’m so happy to hear that you are having success with the roll method for Chispa. That is wonderful news. I’m so happy it’s going much better for both of you.

By the way, I make Ivy‘s food and I do no grinding either as Wendy mentioned. I buy everything I need in terms of meats at the grocery store.
Ivy eats a lamb diet and in the past she has eaten chicken and salmon. I also weigh and measure, add supplements (we add mayonnaise, sweet potatoes, etc too).
It’s not that hard and again no grinding, so it’s definitely something to think about.
I feel like I’m giving Ivy such a better nutritional situation than feeding her the canned crap.
It is a time investment for me because I cook the meats.
I do not feed raw, (my nutritionist does not think it’s a good idea with all of her fragile system complexities ) but I’m happy to do it for her.

Hope you and Chispa have a wonderful day. And thanks for the update:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
11/21 ; The nutrition rabbit hole...been there... no easy way out, I'm sorry. I'm glad Chispa is doing better and hope she continues to improve surfs safely for you! Sending hugs you are such a good mom to spend so much time and energy trying to find what works the best for her. :bighug:
 
Thank you for the probiotics link, I will read it.
I buy locally pre-made raw food for Bella but I have been thinking about doing it myself. I should start reading on that. I don't want to buy ground meat since I feed it raw to her, but having it ground by a butcher sounds nice.
Chispa seems to be on a mission! I am glad her numbers improved so much. :D
 
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Sorry about the rabbit hole, but hope you got what you needed on the probiotics.
@Wendy&Neko , I do have one question: I see that Visbiome contains 225 billion bacteria per packet ($65 per box of 30), vs. 5 billion per capsule in Proviable ($17 per box of 30). Both manufacturers recommend one packet or capsule per day, but I'm wondering if you find that Visbiome is still effective at smaller doses than that, given the huge difference in quantity of bacteria. You mentioned that you use a tiny amount and that it lasts you 6 months -- is that because you are using 1/6 of a packet per day?
Thanks!
 

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I make Ivy‘s food and I do no grinding either as Wendy mentioned. I buy everything I need in terms of meats at the grocery store.
Ivy eats a lamb diet and in the past she has eaten chicken and salmon. I also weigh and measure, add supplements (we add mayonnaise, sweet potatoes, etc too).
It’s not that hard and again no grinding, so it’s definitely something to think about.
Thanks, Staci! No grinding might actually make it tolerable.
Chispa is licking her chops at the mention of mayonnaise ... :cat::bighug:
 
11/21 ; The nutrition rabbit hole...been there... no easy way out, I'm sorry. I'm glad Chispa is doing better and hope she continues to improve surfs safely for you! Sending hugs you are such a good mom to spend so much time and energy trying to find what works the best for her. :bighug:
Thanks, Christine! I guess we are all spending more time than the average mama bears on cat health concerns, but they are SO worth it. Happy Thursday to you and Jack! :cat::bighug:
 
Thank you for the probiotics link, I will read it.
I buy locally pre-made raw food for Bella but I have been thinking about doing it myself. I should start reading on that. I don't want to buy ground meat since I feed it raw to her, but having it ground by a butcher sounds nice.
Chispa seems to be on a mission! I am glad her numbers improved so much. :D
Thanks, Cecile! I wonder if Chispa has been studying Bella's spreadsheet for inspiration? Happy Thursday to both of you!:D:bighug:
 
I see that Visbiome contains 225 billion bacteria per packet ($65 per box of 30), vs. 5 billion per capsule in Proviable ($17 per box of 30). Both manufacturers recommend one packet or capsule per day, but I'm wondering if you find that Visbiome is still effective at smaller doses than that, given the huge difference in quantity of bacteria. You mentioned that you use a tiny amount and that it lasts you 6 months -- is that because you are using 1/6 of a packet per day?

Visbiome is one packet per human, more like 1/20th of a packet per cat per day. Size matters. The recommended dose of probiotics for cats is 5-10 billion CFU/kg/day. Assuming a 5 kg cat (11 lbs) - you've told me but I can't remember Chispa's weight. That would be 25-50 CFU per day. Their pet capsules contain 112.5 billion, the pet packets 225 CFU, the human packets 450 billion CFU. For a capsule that is 1/4 to 1/2 capsule per day. And a pet packet 1/4 to 1/8th. In Canada we can only get the human packets. It is the same product as the pet ones, just more and the word "vet" on the packages allows them to market to vets.

Proviable at 5 billion CFU per capsule would need 5-10 capsules per day to get the same 25-50 CFU per day.
 
Visbiome is one packet per human, more like 1/20th of a packet per cat per day. Size matters. The recommended dose of probiotics for cats is 5-10 billion CFU/kg/day. Assuming a 5 kg cat (11 lbs) - you've told me but I can't remember Chispa's weight. That would be 25-50 CFU per day. Their pet capsules contain 112.5 billion, the pet packets 225 CFU, the human packets 450 billion CFU. For a capsule that is 1/4 to 1/2 capsule per day. And a pet packet 1/4 to 1/8th. In Canada we can only get the human packets. It is the same product as the pet ones, just more and the word "vet" on the packages allows them to market to vets.

Proviable at 5 billion CFU per capsule would need 5-10 capsules per day to get the same 25-50 CFU per day.
Wendy, I must have tripped and fallen into the rabbit hole before I got to the higher math in the article, so thank you for filling in the blanks. I can't imagine how they count the bacteria, but I'm glad it's not my job! :):cat::smuggrin:
 
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