11/2 Chloe 331 started new pen

Roberta and Chloe

Member Since 2020
Chloe has not been walking steadily and I'm afraid of neuropathy. So I decided to try a new pen. The first one was my 'learning pen' and maybe it got too contaminated. If she doesn't come down soon, I may need to increase her dose. What do you think? I will test again in +2.
btw, I heard coyotes howling nearby last night, which gives me the creeps. I've lost 2 cats to them. Mine are staying in today. Yesterday afternoon, I saw out the window a blotchy dog(?) or coyote chasing an orange cat. Cheddar was out at the time, so I went looking for him. He turned up at the door not long after. His tail was not fluffed up, so I am waiting for stray to come for his breakfast today.
 
I hope the fresh pen will do the trick.

How scary that story about the coyotes. I hope all the kitties can stay safe. My niece just lost her kitty to coyotes--she never came home and they looked for her for a month and had to assume it was a coyote or other predator.
 
I hope the fresh pen will do the trick.

How scary that story about the coyotes. I hope all the kitties can stay safe. My niece just lost her kitty to coyotes--she never came home and they looked for her for a month and had to assume it was a coyote or other predator.
:(That's what happened with Purr-C. Holstein screamed and I ran outside to see the coyote drop him. I rushed him to the hospital, but they couldn't save him. They wouldn't give him anything for the pain except euthanasia. I brought that cat with me from Ohio.
 
@JL and Chip Everybody replies to my posts about coffee and computers, but nobody is helping me with Chloe. She's been hiding under the bed all day. I'm wondering if she either has (1) arthritis, or (2) necropathy and can't jump off the bed without pain. Or maybe she's punishing me for not letting her sleep with me last night. @Critter Mom
bump
 
Last edited:
I would give it another couple of cycles, just in case it was the pen. That, combined with the fact that you did get a 68 on October 29th, and I think you said you were trying to follow SLGS a little bit closer than your vet's dosing methods? That 68 would have technically earned a reduction. It would seem that most of her nadirs on this dose the last 9 days (with the exception of 68) are above 150, but I'm contemplating whether she might have gone a little lower on pm cycle of October 31st, since it looked like she was coming down all day from pinks the day before. Anytime you see a trend downward through one cycle into the next, try and get one more test on that next cycle.

Perhaps if you add a question mark on your title, and dose advice in your title, you'll get a few more people to weigh in.
 
I would give it another couple of cycles, just in case it was the pen. That, combined with the fact that you did get a 68 on October 29th, and I think you said you were trying to follow SLGS a little bit closer than your vet's dosing methods? That 68 would have technically earned a reduction. It would seem that most of her nadirs on this dose the last 9 days (with the exception of 68) are above 150, but I'm contemplating whether she might have gone a little lower on pm cycle of October 31st, since it looked like she was coming down all day from pinks the day before. Anytime you see a trend downward through one cycle into the next, try and get one more test on that next cycle.

Perhaps if you add a question mark on your title, and dose advice in your title, you'll get a few more people to weigh in.
I'm trying to do SLGS, but am also so tempted to use my vet's dosing when she's high like this for so long. I will wait one more day before changing her dose.
 
I understand. Do me a favour? I see 267 for +11, so she has been coming down all day. How about a +4 tonight, that would be interesting to see if she continues down or just stays put in yellows.

You mentioned she wasn't walking steadily? I wonder if that may be just some arthritis for her age? I'll link a video of neuropathy that I've seen in the past and again more recently, or I might have to link the post, I'm not that tech savvy ;)
 
I am not an expert, but I do know that lantus does best with a steady dose. Meaning keeping the dose steady until Maverick's numbers indicate an increase or decrease. After looking at your spreadsheet, I saw that green was 3 days ago and i think you missed your opportunity to decrease based on SLGS. Plenty of time to bounce and then hold steady in the yellows & pinks. If I were in your shoes, I would hold this dose for another day or 2 to see if he drops again, and then raise by .25.

As to the unsteady walking, it could be due to arthritis or neuropathy. A sweet kitty who is in pain would, in my opinion, poop and pee where they are if it is too much for them to make it to the box. Pain could also raise the BG, so I would check with my vet as how to treat arthritis.

A Methyl B-12 supplement would be a great thing to start to help if it is neuropathy. I used a product called Zobaline, but many here don't because it's a bit pricey. It worked for my girl, she was wobbly, and it stopped within a couple of months. There is information here on the lantus stickies somewhere. You can also do a search.

Here's a quick reminder from the Dosing methods sticky on SLGS:
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
As your cat's blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], do lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g., diet or other medications), don't increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete (but decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change).

Don't be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments-- no matter how high your cat's blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may shoot past the right dose.

I hope that helps a bit.

I also suspect I lost a cat to coyotes. I do not let my cats outside without supervision now, and they are not allowed to leave the yard. :)
 
Last edited:
@Roberta and Chloe I’m sorry I wasn’t online earlier but am glad others jumped in to help out. :)

First, I too think you should hold steady and not increase dose for at least a day or two to see what happens with the new pen. I think it’s usually wise to change one thing at a time.

If you don’t mind, please remind me (any anyone else reading), about a couple of things:
1) How is Chloe’s appetite? If you recall, I think you said she’s a hearty eater?
2) About how much does she eat in a day?
3) What is her poop like? Is it normal color and consistency?
4) Does she have any other known medical issues, such as IBD, constipation, kidney disease, hyperthyroidism, etc?

I’m concerned about the ongoing weight loss. If she’s losing ground and getting weaker and more wobbly, there might be something in addition to diabetes going on. Yes, FD can make them emaciated but it’s not at all uncommon these guys to have other issues too.

As for peeing and pooping on the bed... has she done that throughout her life or is that a more recent occurrence? I highly doubt it’s spite for not letting her sleep with you. Rather, I’d suspect one of three things: either she has a UTI and peeing/pooping on the bed is her way of pleading for help, or she is so weak and unstable that she can’t physically navigate off the bed easily to use the litter box, or she has lost some sensation in the hind end and doesn’t always realize it’s happening. Also, cats who are weak and wobbly don’t always feel stable in the litter box — the litter is like shifting sand — and so prefer a more solid or flat place to do their business.

If you want suggestions, I’d consider taking Chloe to the vet for a urine sample to check for a UTI. If she has any issues with IBD or soft stools, I’d try to address those as well because those things can suck the weight right off. By the way, UTIs are very common in diabetics and can cause increased BGs, so it’s possible that’s what you’re seeing in the data. While you’re at the vet, if wouldn’t hurt to get some blood work done to check kidney and liver values, and especially thyroid values to rule out hyperthyroidism.

To mitigate the soiled bed, I’d try a couple of things. First, I’d get some steps to put next to the bed for Chloe to use to get up and down, or alternatively rig up some boxes or totes that served as steps. I’d get some disposable underpads (chux) to put on top of the bed to catch any accidents, then put a litter box on the bed to see if she would use it if it’s close by. I’d put an extra litter box on the floor but line it with a puppy pad rather than litter (perhaps sprinkle a quarter cup of litter around the perimeter just to “mark”it as a litter box). I’d also watch to see whether she had intent or not — does she intentionally squat on the bed or does she just wake up and there’s an accident there?

You can also request an X-ray of her spine and hind legs to see if any bridging of the spine or arthritis is present. Certain pain meds can make a world of difference. I helped once with a cat who had significant arthritis and spinal issues and it was a matter of experimenting and tweaking until we found what worked. The right pain meds, Miralax for constipation, adding a litter box where the cat hung out, and offering a variety of substrates (including a pee pad rather than litter), finally solved the problem of her peeing and pooping in inappropriate locations.

I’m concerned that Chloe spent the day under the bed. Poor girl. She obviously doesn’t feel well. :-(
 
@Roberta and Chloe I’m sorry I wasn’t online earlier but am glad others jumped in to help out. :)

First, I too think you should hold steady and not increase dose for at least a day or two to see what happens with the new pen. I think it’s usually wise to change one thing at a time.

If you don’t mind, please remind me (any anyone else reading), about a couple of things:
1) How is Chloe’s appetite? If you recall, I think you said she’s a hearty eater?
2) About how much does she eat in a day?
3) What is her poop like? Is it normal color and consistency?
4) Does she have any other known medical issues, such as IBD, constipation, kidney disease, hyperthyroidism, etc?

I’m concerned about the ongoing weight loss. If she’s losing ground and getting weaker and more wobbly, there might be something in addition to diabetes going on. Yes, FD can make them emaciated but it’s not at all uncommon these guys to have other issues too.

As for peeing and pooping on the bed... has she done that throughout her life or is that a more recent occurrence? I highly doubt it’s spite for not letting her sleep with you. Rather, I’d suspect one of three things: either she has a UTI and peeing/pooping on the bed is her way of pleading for help, or she is so weak and unstable that she can’t physically navigate off the bed easily to use the litter box, or she has lost some sensation in the hind end and doesn’t always realize it’s happening. Also, cats who are weak and wobbly don’t always feel stable in the litter box — the litter is like shifting sand — and so prefer a more solid or flat place to do their business.

If you want suggestions, I’d consider taking Chloe to the vet for a urine sample to check for a UTI. If she has any issues with IBD or soft stools, I’d try to address those as well because those things can suck the weight right off. By the way, UTIs are very common in diabetics and can cause increased BGs, so it’s possible that’s what you’re seeing in the data. While you’re at the vet, if wouldn’t hurt to get some blood work done to check kidney and liver values, and especially thyroid values to rule out hyperthyroidism.

To mitigate the soiled bed, I’d try a couple of things. First, I’d get some steps to put next to the bed for Chloe to use to get up and down, or alternatively rig up some boxes or totes that served as steps. I’d get some disposable underpads (chux) to put on top of the bed to catch any accidents, then put a litter box on the bed to see if she would use it if it’s close by. I’d put an extra litter box on the floor but line it with a puppy pad rather than litter (perhaps sprinkle a quarter cup of litter around the perimeter just to “mark”it as a litter box). I’d also watch to see whether she had intent or not — does she intentionally squat on the bed or does she just wake up and there’s an accident there?

You can also request an X-ray of her spine and hind legs to see if any bridging of the spine or arthritis is present. Certain pain meds can make a world of difference. I helped once with a cat who had significant arthritis and spinal issues and it was a matter of experimenting and tweaking until we found what worked. The right pain meds, Miralax for constipation, adding a litter box where the cat hung out, and offering a variety of substrates (including a pee pad rather than litter), finally solved the problem of her peeing and pooping in inappropriate locations.

I’m concerned that Chloe spent the day under the bed. Poor girl. She obviously doesn’t feel well. :-(
 
Chloe went to the vet about a month ago and I asked them to do a urine test. They said it was negative, but I suspect maybe extracting the urine (however they do it) might have caused one. I sent my vet her last few readings from Chloe's spreadsheet last night. I'm sure she'll reply promptly. Chloe didn't eat much this morning but her BG was high. Also, I've noticed that when she tries to meow, hardly any sound comes out. She used to have a loud meow. No problem with her poop-- it's solid and chocolate brown. I'll try putting a clean litter box on the bed like you suggested.
@JL and Chip
 
I was just getting ready to clean her litter box when I saw her scraping at the sheet. I went over and there was a big pee spot. I just said 'no' and she had no difficulty jumping off the bed and hiding under it. So, excuse me while I clean it up.
 
Back
Top