11/2 Chico AMPS 380; +2 443 PMPS 385; +2 351; +4 216

Marina & Chico

Member Since 2021
it is the second cycle in a row when Chico's PS value is in pink colors, hopefully this is a trend nonetheless we are not certain how will this affect our nadir values. Should we expect it to be lower than before and if yes, what should we do about it? we clearly don't want to decrease the dose until we have a flatter curve.

Previous day thread:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...ng-bounce-cycle-3-lantus.242863/#post-2738262

Thanks in advance
 
It's looking like a bounce with that +2, (combined with the effect of the FS)
If he is feeling uncomfortable with his tummy that might also be contributing to that, pain can raise numbers. How is he? other than the poop problem?
Whole Cat Report (WCR)
Are the 5 p's in place?
Purring
pooping
peeing
playing
preening

Though you did a great job getting on top of the numbers last night he did still drop quite a bit, so it's not surprising he bounced, it will take a bit of time.

With TR and Lantus, we ignore the PS, when we think about dose we want to be asking ourselves. 'How low is the dose taking kitty?' So as long as he is not below 50 you would hold.
Lantus works best when it has a low PS number to grab on to. You will get flatter cycles.
So if you got 150 as a PS tonight, you would not see a 200pt drop like you did last night. Have a look at Chnoudi's SS, chnoudi was bouncy and Melita had to work to figure out what worked for him.
But you can see there are days where a specific dose will have dropped him from pink to green and that same dose would have dropped him.
One example is december 11 2020, am cycle he dropped from pink to green (over 300 pts), he was blue at PS and Melita shot the same dose and he dropped and surfed in the greens (just 70 points).

When I started to get lower PS I found it very useful to know what the +11 was, it's not as important what the actual number is but are those numbers trending up or down or flat. It can give you a good indication of whether you need to be more alert to an early drop.
We will help you get comfortable with shooting lower PS, usually it is a gradual process, and you may find you want to skip, for now if you get a lower than normal PS shout and we can help you make an informed choice. There isn't a wrong choice, you will learn from whichever one you choose.

Chico does seem to be dropping quite early, he may have the onset before +2, the reason I say that is that by +2 on his last two active cycles he is considerably lower than PS.
Thinking about his GI probs and hoping that we might be able to avoid the use of MC food or honey, it may be a good idea to get food on board a little earlier in the cycle to stay ahead of the insulin cycle. So maybe start with LC sancks at +1 +2+3.. I also wonder whether his GI problems may mean that he is not absorbing as much from his main meal and consequently this is affecting the drop at onset. I think I would try to avoid the gourmet perle and gold, for the time being.

Here is another excellent thread by Libby, it was a real eyeopener for me. post #6
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...combining-merging-protocols-good-idea.111088/
she covers other points as well it's a good read.
 
It's looking like a bounce with that +2, (combined with the effect of the FS)
If he is feeling uncomfortable with his tummy that might also be contributing to that, pain can raise numbers. How is he? other than the poop problem?
Whole Cat Report (WCR)
Are the 5 p's in place?
Purring
pooping
peeing
playing
preening
All 5 p's are in place, yesterday evening after a passive day he played a bit - less than usual but nonetheless... pooping is the issue, through the day i still didnt manage to catch him pooing to understand if it is better than yesterday in the night and today morning but i keep my eyes opened :D he is peeing pretty well and a bit overgrooming. Generally he seems ok

Though you did a great job getting on top of the numbers last night he did still drop quite a bit, so it's not surprising he bounced, it will take a bit of time.

With TR and Lantus, we ignore the PS, when we think about dose we want to be asking ourselves. 'How low is the dose taking kitty?' So as long as he is not below 50 you would hold.
Lantus works best when it has a low PS number to grab on to. You will get flatter cycles.

ok, so than just be patient and follow the lows is the plan

So if you got 150 as a PS tonight, you would not see a 200pt drop like you did last night. Have a look at Chnoudi's SS, chnoudi was bouncy and Melita had to work to figure out what worked for him.
But you can see there are days where a specific dose will have dropped him from pink to green and that same dose would have dropped him.
One example is december 11 2020, am cycle he dropped from pink to green (over 300 pts), he was blue at PS and Melita shot the same dose and he dropped and surfed in the greens (just 70 points).
i will look more into Chnoudi's case, he does look to have been going through some bouncing, i will check what did Mellita do to make him stop bouncing. I see that they had the exact situation that my husband would have loved for us to have: bouncing in the night and active cycle during the day :D:D we are not as "fortunate" :D

When I started to get lower PS I found it very useful to know what the +11 was, it's not as important what the actual number is but are those numbers trending up or down or flat. It can give you a good indication of whether you need to be more alert to an early drop.
We will help you get comfortable with shooting lower PS, usually it is a gradual process, and you may find you want to skip, for now if you get a lower than normal PS shout and we can help you make an informed choice. There isn't a wrong choice, you will learn from whichever one you choose.
good pointer, we will look into that

Chico does seem to be dropping quite early, he may have the onset before +2, the reason I say that is that by +2 on his last two active cycles he is considerably lower than PS.
Thinking about his GI probs and hoping that we might be able to avoid the use of MC food or honey, it may be a good idea to get food on board a little earlier in the cycle to stay ahead of the insulin cycle. So maybe start with LC sancks at +1 +2+3.. I also wonder whether his GI problems may mean that he is not absorbing as much from his main meal and consequently this is affecting the drop at onset. I think I would try to avoid the gourmet perle and gold, for the time being.
great idea, i have a feeling we will have the chance to try it tonight

Here is another excellent thread by Libby, it was a real eyeopener for me. post #6
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...combining-merging-protocols-good-idea.111088/
she covers other points as well it's a good read.
thanks for the article
 
https://www.zooplus.es/shop/tienda_gatos/comida_humeda/cosma/cosma_thai/201947
the cosma thai chicken and chicken liver is 9% DM basis.

https://www.zooplus.es/shop/top_marcas/almo_nature/almo_nature_comida_humeda/55655
the chicken and pumpkin is 23% on a dry matter basis and no additives, I haven't done the calc on the others, but since he was ok with chicken

I'll look a bit more later I have to go prepare lunch
and i thought i went thru each product on zoohit and couldn't find anything... i like the almo nature as HC (19% woo), cosma thai they have only chicken with tuna here, i would like to avoid sea food for a while. but will search again for MC there

thsnkd
 
Another pink preshot.
Paws crossed for tonight.

I didn't get a chance to look more up.
My neighbors dog got lost, we found him today after two days of searching, in a snare. I had to help her take him to the vets that's an hour away. He's been admitted they have him on a drip and are going to operate tomorrow. Poor guy was in horrible pain.

He dipped into PMPS.... He may clear the bounce again tonight;)
 
Another pink preshot.
Paws crossed for tonight.
Yep, we gave him some food at +1, let's see what that will do

I didn't get a chance to look more up.
My neighbors dog got lost, we found him today after two days of searching, in a snare. I had to help her take him to the vets that's an hour away. He's been admitted they have him on a drip and are going to operate tomorrow. Poor guy was in horrible pain.
poor him, hope he will be better soon
don't worry abt the food, i will make another search

He dipped into PMPS.... He may clear the bounce again tonight;)
we'll find out in half an hour :)
 
Hope his tummy carries on improving. Glad ketones -ve good idea to keep track of that especially if he's not feeling 100%.

poor him, hope he will be better soon
Thanks, I hope so too.
we'll find out in half an hour :)
Looks like he is still bouncing, grab a before bed test to make sure.
I think you are also seeing the furshot effect here.
don't worry abt the food, i will make another search
I've just been looking at some of the stuff we used, though a number have changed recipies and are lower in carbs now than they used to be or the don;t make them.
 
Hope his tummy carries on improving. Glad ketones -ve good idea to keep track of that especially if he's not feeling 100%.
We hope his tummy will get better as well. i learned to take the urine sample with a little plastic sampler, really helped, it was easier and more efficient

Thanks, I hope so too.

Looks like he is still bouncing, grab a before bed test to make sure.
I think you are also seeing the furshot effect here.
actually i believe it is the food we gave him at +1 that slowed his decrease down, thanks for the advice :) at +3 he is already 261

I've just been looking at some of the stuff we used, though a number have changed recipies and are lower in carbs now than they used to be or the don;t make them.
we found appaling or smth like this, which has 8%, i guess this is too little for MC, right?
 
e found appaling or smth like this, which has 8%, i guess this is too little for MC, right?
That would still be low carb, but at the higher end.
(anything under 10% is low carb)
So if someone were to advise MC that would be low, they would be expecting you to use between 10an 16 % . It's always good to note what % carb you are giving. I would record that on the SS.

I had LC food in the below 5% range and LC food in the 8-10% range I would use the higher LC often in Georges more active cycles. So if he was starting of with a low PS i usually fed him his normal meal which was under 5% but then for his +1 +2 snack he would get a higher LC. If at +1/+2 he had dropped from lets say mid blue to the 60s I might have used MC. however if he went from mid blue to 80's lets say then I would start of with higher LC and see if that had the desired effect.
But George was not very sensitive to carb, it didn't bump his numbers up, or stop him from dropping easily. I learnt that I had to keep ontop of his numbers early in his cycle, using higher LC or MC when I figured out what worked for George, that's when I started seeing a change in his cycles, and we slowly lost the bounces (he wasn't very bouncy), I think the managing the curve with food helped with that.
All our cats are different, so we have to try and figure out what works for our guy.
If you record what %carb you used along with the feed times, it will make it easier for you to figure out and for us to help you figure it out. You can look back at the previous weeks cycle and analyse what you fed when and what seemed to get the desired effect, usually what we want is to slow them down but not stall the cycle altogether by feeding too much carb.

Though it is not always as simple as just looking at the numbers. Other factors might prompt me to be more cautious or not, for example. Lets say I had increased his dose to 2u, and two or 3 cycles in I had seen him drop into a nice nadir of 70, then he bounced a bit, and started to clear that bounce a couple of cycles later, I would be thinking,
  • depot is fuller( I will be seeing the true effect of the dose as the depot fills)(
  • May go lower than 70 this time.
So I might be more 'aggressive' with my choice of carb when he was 5 cycles in than when he was 2 cycles into that 2u dose.

With some cats will get an initial strong reaction when you increase, but hey don't sustain that. George rarely showed a strong reaction to a dose increase, it was usually around cycle 3 where I would start to see the effect of the dose change.

Last night was an interesting cycle for chico, I think the early feeding helped, cycle 2 since the FS we may see this dose take him a little lower than that once the depot builds and we get this dose working to it's full potential


We hope his tummy will get better as well. i learned to take the urine sample with a little plastic sampler, really helped, it was easier and more efficient
I used an old big soup spoon which I would scoot under Georges bottom when he was going for a pee. George rides low when he pees.

How is he feeling with his tummy today?
I would continue to avoid using the gourmet food at least for now, and if you need to just add honey to his regular food to increase the ccarb content of any snack. Once you get his tummy all settled down, you may be able to use them, but while he is being quite sensitive maybe best not to rock the boat.
Is he a bit more active?
 
Back
Top