11/19 Webster AMPS=450 +6.5=46 +9.5=94 Dosing advice

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Websterthecat

Member Since 2014
Here we go again. This time Webster is sitting in the bathtub for the first time ever. I don't know if he's not feeling good or just angry at us for poking him so much. He seems to be alert and his eyes look okay. Hes refusing to eat chicken treats or even his favorite tempations. Trying to offer HC wet food right now.

He seemed to eat some HC dry food and some LC wet food last night. Maybe hes not eating enough pre shot? Maybe this is once again the result of yesterdays drop?
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83

Just so you can factor this in...

It takes much longer for dry food or even Temptations to be metabolized and bring BG levels up. By the same token, the stuff hangs around for a very long time. This is why we us gravy-based, HC food. All of the carbs are in the gravy. If Webster is gluten sensitive or you want a bigger boost for your buck, add a drop or two of corn syrup (e.g., Karo), honey, maple, syrup, etc.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83

Sounds like Webster isn't feeling so great. That's a big drop. I imagine it must feel funny when that happens. I was thinking, does Webster like to play at all? My Buster doesn't so I can't use that to perk him up or as a bonding tool, but maybe Webster might like a little playtime with you? Just a thought. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. :YMHUG: I hope he stays safe for you today.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83

Sienne and Gabby said:
Just so you can factor this in...

It takes much longer for dry food or even Temptations to be metabolized and bring BG levels up. By the same token, the stuff hangs around for a very long time. This is why we us gravy-based, HC food. All of the carbs are in the gravy. If Webster is gluten sensitive or you want a bigger boost for your buck, add a drop or two of corn syrup (e.g., Karo), honey, maple, syrup, etc.
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Thank you. I understand. I purchased some HC gravy food for events such as the one today. However, he doesn't seem to have much of an appetite for the HC gravy at the moment. We managed to sneak in a drop of gravy onto 4 treats.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83

Do you have a PetCo near you? Max is a picky eater but loves the Soulistic Triple Harmony pouches which I use as a high carb food. It's a combo of chicken, salmon, and tuna. That is the only store that carries it. If I really need him up in a hurry I give him that with a drop or two of karo.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83

He's not going for the treats dipped in karo. Syringe feeding him food + a few drops of karo
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55

I'm glad you were able to get some food into him. Test again in 30 minutes.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59

59 @ 4.5

No longer plummeting. He perked up, came out of the tub and sat up looking at the window.

Should I retest in 30 or 60?
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59

I'd retest in 30. If you see him sitting in the 50s for a couple hours, then you can know that he is just surfing along in the 50s, but for right now, lets just make sure that's what he's planning on or whatever. See if he will eat his regular LC, but not too much.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59

Dyana said:
I'd retest in 30. If you see him sitting in the 50s for a couple hours, then you can know that he is just surfing along in the 50s, but for right now, lets just make sure that's what he's planning on or whatever. See if he will eat his regular LC, but not too much.
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Looks like he dropped down to 50. Trying to get him to eat LC wet food and he has little interest. Hes accepting temptation treats so gave him a couple. He ate a little of his old dry food. Will retest 1/2 hr.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59

Has he been eating normally, otherwise? Do you have any MC? A teaspoon of that may help him up a bit.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59

Dyana said:
Has he been eating normally, otherwise? Do you have any MC? A teaspoon of that may help him up a bit.
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It's hard to say whether or not he is eating normally. He got out of the hospital on Saturday after going through DKA and did not have much of an appetite. His diet prior to the DKA incident and diabetes diagnosis was exclusively cheap dry food. Since his return home I have been putting out 3 bowls of different LC wet food as well as a small bowl of his dry food. He seems to eat mostly dry food but has showing some interest in one LC food in particular.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +5.5

He seems to be hanging in around the low 50's. Not eating much of any wet food at the moment that I put in front of him - MC or HC. He has however ate some of his old dry food.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +5.5

If it were me, I would test again at +6.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +5.5

Max would only eat dry food before he got pancreatitis. Another food to try while trying to transition from dry is Stella & Chewy's freeze dried chicken or turkey. It can be mixed with water to rehydrate if he likes it to transition to canned. It is a low carb food and comes in individual pouches to try and if he likes it then can be purchased from chewy.com. It might only be available at boutique pet stores locally.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +5.5

Dropping again +6.5= 46. Feeding temptations trying to get number up. Dipped one in karo and he ate it.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

I think I would try to give him some more of that food with a drop of karo via syringe. Test again in 30 minutes.
I have to run to the vet but will be back before your next test.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

Maybe you should syringe the karo if he won't eat? Just a thought. On the other hand he should nadir fairly soon.

You will more than likely be reducing the insulin after that 46 but do post for advice later after we see how this cycle plays out. I know you wanted to stop testing. You may get your wish soon if you can get Webster on a low carb canned food. One step at a time though. I speculate way too early. I haven't dealt with drops from 450 to 46 even reducing doses. Maybe the infection is going away and helping as well? Hope so. Hang in there.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

Hi Mike,
Have you tried grinding up some of his favorite cheap dry food in a blender and sprinkling it on wet food? What brand of wet food are you feeding? Most cats really love the Fancy Feast varieties. When Rusty had pancreatitis the only thing he would eat was Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets Classic (reputed to be 3% carbs, but I have always thought it was more).

Hang in there!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

if you have no blender....
take a Ziploc bag and anything hard.... you can crumble anything inside the bag.....and have dust....
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

tiffmaxee said:
Maybe you should syringe the karo if he won't eat? Just a thought. On the other hand he should nadir fairly soon.

You will more than likely be reducing the insulin after that 46 but do post for advice later after we see how this cycle plays out. I know you wanted to stop testing. You may get your wish soon if you can get Webster on a low carb canned food. One step at a time though. I speculate way too early. I haven't dealt with drops from 450 to 46 even reducing doses. Maybe the infection is going away and helping as well? Hope so. Hang in there.
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He had a drop on a treat along with 4 treats. He appears content, laying on the bed grooming his self?

I really hope the Nadir comes soon. What ever happened to his liver responding to the dramatic drop? Shouldn't it have flooded his system with sugars?

I'm not sure if he has an infection. The vet did not specify that he had an infection but said to give him the AB as a precautionary measure.

If it doesn't increase when I check it in a few mins how much should karo should I syringe feed?
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

What ever happened to his liver responding to the dramatic drop? Shouldn't it have flooded his system with sugars?
Click to expand...

The bounce will come....


it takes 30 minutes for anything fed to really show up....
hopefully you won't need to add more syrup... but if so, add another drop.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Mike,
Have you tried grinding up some of his favorite cheap dry food in a blender and sprinkling it on wet food? What brand of wet food are you feeding? Most cats really love the Fancy Feast varieties. When Rusty had pancreatitis the only thing he would eat was Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets Classic (reputed to be 3% carbs, but I have always thought it was more).

Hang in there!

Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

Iv'e been giving him several different ones to try. So far, the Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets is his favorite. He will eat some of that along with some of his old dry food.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Mike,
Have you tried grinding up some of his favorite cheap dry food in a blender and sprinkling it on wet food? What brand of wet food are you feeding? Most cats really love the Fancy Feast varieties. When Rusty had pancreatitis the only thing he would eat was Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets Classic (reputed to be 3% carbs, but I have always thought it was more).

Hang in there!

Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

I will try sprinkling some dry food on top of his wet this evening.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

+7=56. Up 10 points.

Should I just let it ride from here and keep testing or feed him more?
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

10 up isn't really a difference with meter variance.

Continue monitoring.... you want rising numbers without the influence of food....
but since you are using dry.... it does take a little longer to see the effect.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

Test again at +7.5. It's late in the cycle, so his regular insulin should be starting to wear out, but he could still come down.
I think holding off on food is would be fine and we'll see what the next test is. 10 points up from a drop of karo isn't that much of a climb. I also think if he is hungry and wants to eat wet food, let him (up until +10). Others may say to stop feeding him now, but I am slightly concerned with his lack of appetite.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

63@ +7.5

Slight rise. He's seems very tired and is napping on the bed.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

Dyana said:
Test again at +7.5. It's late in the cycle, so his regular insulin should be starting to wear out, but he could still come down.
I think holding off on food is would be fine and we'll see what the next test is. 10 points up from a drop of karo isn't that much of a climb. I also think if he is hungry and wants to eat wet food, let him (up until +10). Others may say to stop feeding him now, but I am slightly concerned with his lack of appetite.
Click to expand...

I blended some of his old dry food into dust to sprinkle on his food later on as suggested earlier.

So far, I have imposed no restrictions on what he eats. I have been leaving out 3-4 low carb canned food choices as well as a bowl of his old dry food 24 hours each day. If he is not eating enough I doubt the reason would be because he doesn't like the food that's given to him. I'm allowing him the free choice to sample LC foods while not taking away his old dry food so that I can find one that he will actually enjoy eating.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3=83 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +5.5

tiffmaxee said:
Max would only eat dry food before he got pancreatitis. Another food to try while trying to transition from dry is Stella & Chewy's freeze dried chicken or turkey. It can be mixed with water to rehydrate if he likes it to transition to canned. It is a low carb food and comes in individual pouches to try and if he likes it then can be purchased from chewy.com. It might only be available at boutique pet stores locally.
Click to expand...

Hi Elise. Sorry I didn't catch you food suggestions earlier. I was in a bit of a panic. I just went back and took note. Thank you.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50 +6.5=46 +7

Numbers are updated. He's holding steady at 94 which is the exact reading from the last hour.

Guys, I'm really going to need some help tonight as his next dose is due at 9PM eastern time (2 hours from now). He has been laying on the bed sleeping and grooming himself for the past several hours and seems to be a bit on the tired side. He's hasn't come out to the kitchen looking for food yet.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50+6.5=46 +9.

Hi Mike. I just got back from a quick Costco run. In the first subject nix put a question mark . Erase some of the numbers. Keep the first, low, and lady . Then wrote dosing advice and someone will help you with it. I'd post on TR as well with a link to this thread.
 
Re: 11/19 Webster AMPS 450 +3.75=55 +4.5=59 +5=50+6.5=46 +9.

tiffmaxee said:
Hi Mike. I just got back from a quick Costco run. In the first subject nix put a question mark . Erase some of the numbers. Keep the first, low, and lady . Then wrote dosing advice and someone will help you with it. I'd post on TR as well with a link to this thread.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Elise! :smile:
 
With the 46 today, he earned a dose reduction. You can go ahead and try one half unit. Good luck with the new dose.
 
Mike, I really am wondering if Webster and Mikey are somehow related! Take a look at his spreadsheet from yesterday. These two are going to drive us to drink! Hang in there. It looks to me like you're doing a great job.
 
Yes, good luck with the half-unit dose! You will not see an immediate reaction to the new dose because Webster's "shed" (or insulin depot) will still reflect the previous dose for a cycle or two (or three), but hang in there. It always takes a little while for a new dose to settle in.

I hope you will have a good night and that Webster won't have to have so many pokies!

Ella & Rusty
 
I'm afraid to give him any dose at this time.

He hasn't really eaten anything all day and took one bite of his food just now. His BG levels have traditionally been 300-500 around this time but are in the low 100's. I'm afraid that even a small dose is going to drive him way down because he has been dropping off very fast after his insulin.

He's refusing to eat and is lethargic. When I pinch his skin it doesn't bounce back fast, indicating dehydration. I would say that his condition is taking a turn for the worse. I checked his ketones as recent as last night and they were negative. I have not been able to get a sample today but by his symptoms I suspect that we are headed down that road again. :cry:

Should I try to force feed him a can of low carb food? I don't know what to do. :?:
 
Marycatmom said:
Mike, I really am wondering if Webster and Mikey are somehow related! Take a look at his spreadsheet from yesterday. These two are going to drive us to drink! Hang in there. It looks to me like you're doing a great job.
Click to expand...

I'm seriously ready to start chugging. I keep telling myself that I must stay sober to take care of my boy. Was Mikey DKA?
 
I would take him to the vet, for peace of mind, if think he is making a turn for the worse. My J.D. was a DKA survivor.
I know how scary that was. If you can get a ketone test that would be great, but if you can't and you are worried, I would go get him checked out. I'm guessing you know there are blood ketone meters that are like glucometers. You could maybe find one at a pharmacy, if you call around. I had to have the pharmacy order one for me.

Sending vines and hugs.
 
It may be the safest course of action to skip the shot tonight. But please wait for confirmation from one of the dosing experts. Another possibility would be to give a token dose, maybe .25 of a unit, just to have some insulin on board to combat any hint of a return of DKA. Try to get a keytone test. Try to get Webster to eat something and to drink. Mix some water into his wet food to get more fluid into him, especially if he seems dehydrated.

I hope someone with more experience in these matters will be along soon.

Ella

p.s. I just saw Dyana's post. A trip to the vet sounds like a good idea.
 
Dyana said:
I would take him to the vet, for peace of mind, if think he is making a turn for the worse. My J.D. was a DKA survivor.
I know how scary that was. If you can get a ketone test that would be great, but if you can't and you are worried, I would go get him checked out. I'm guessing you know there are blood ketone meters that are like glucometers. You could maybe find one at a pharmacy, if you call around. I had to have the pharmacy order one for me.

Sending vines and hugs.
Click to expand...

I have strips and he just peed. Negative on the Ketones.
 
How can I get him hydrated?

Skin is not bouncing back very fast when pinched. Should I force feed him? Should I force him to drink water with syringe.

I'm afraid to give him a dose of lantus. What will happen if I skip a dose?
 
Big sigh, and a "Thank God".

Is he on antibiotics? That may cause his tummy to be upset. Sometimes probiotics will help put back in some of the good bacteria into the gut.
 
If you skip the shot his bg will probably go up, but in general it is much safer to be too high than too low. You are very new at this and I believe that the "cut-off" number for a newly diagnosed cat is somewhere around 150. In other words, if Webster is below 150 at PMPS, skip the shot!

Ella
 
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