11/19 Crushy pmps 376 +2 345

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Michele M

Michele M

Member Since 2013
previous http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=108426

Thank you again everyone who talked me through Crushy's first green pre shot last night!

I just talked to the vet and Crushy does have some teeth issues after all. He has two teeth that are already completely resorbed and gone and two that look diseased on x-ray. AND one of his top canine teeth has to go too. The tip of it has been chipped off since Crushy was about 6 weeks old (I actually remember when this happened...he fell off the balcony in the condo we had at the time...on to soft dirt and grass but it was enough to chip his tooth) He says you cant see it from the front but the back/inside of that tooth has a large groove that goes up into the root which is about 4 times as big as it should be and looks really bad. It may have been a fractured tooth since he was a kitten :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Damn damn damn! I thought for SURE I was just being overly cautious!

I havent quite gotten to the "this is a good discovery" part of processing this yet. Im just really upset about the amount of pain that he will be in and the fact that he is loosing a canine
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Morning Michelle and extra sweet Crushy! Crushy will do fine thru the dental and healing is usually fairly quick. KT was eating well again within about 3 days....he lost 11 teeth at the same time.

BIG HUGS! Extra thoughts and prayers for dental to go wonderfully and sweet baby be back home quickly!
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Sending happy and safe dental vines to Crushy today. I hope he heals up quickly. He'll be home before you know it!
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

((((Michele)))) I had a similar thing happen with Lucy. She has had dental cleanings before and everything looked fine, but my vet bought x-ray equipment a couple of years ago. When Lucy went in for her first dental using the x-rays, the vet discovered several resorbed teeth. She lost several teeth that day, including a canine, and will probably lose a couple more this year. She never seemed to be in pain before or after the procedure.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Sending tons of prayers for sweet Crushy. Trix is another who went in for what we thought was a simple dental, but when they did the pre-op x-rays, they found she had a bunch of broken teeth and the roots were still there. She ended up having 7 extractions that day. The bupe works wonders on the pain during their recovery, and Crushy will be feeling better than new in no time.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Just in case, you might want to pick up some baby food. Either Gerber or Beechnut Stage 2 (broth and a protein -- no veggies, onion, etc.) are the recommended food. Baby food goes down easy and doesn't require much teeth action.

I'm sure someone must have posted this but you will want to ask about buprenorphine/buprenex as a pain med. You don't want any nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAIDs) drugs, especially Metacam/meloxicam. Likewise, if that one tooth was really bad, Crushy may need an antibiotic. Most ABs are fine. The one that Dr. Lisa has advised against is Convenia. It's a very long lasting injection. If Crushy has an allergic response to it, it can be a problem due to how long-acting it is.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

(((((michele)))))
don't beat yourself up. stuff like this happens. the problems are being taken care of today and crushy will heal.

if you didn't give insulin this morning you'll have an opportunity to readjust his shot time this evening. is his normal shot time good for you or would you prefer an earlier shot time? let us know what you want to do.

you'll want to test crushy when he gets home and then periodically until shot time. the idea is to get an idea of the rate of the rise or drop before you give him more insulin.

one of the vet techs who used to post here quite a bit a few years ago recommended putting kitty in a quiet semi-darkened room for rest and recovery following a dental procedure. sienne mentioned having baby food on hand. some cats will turn away from their regular food, but will eat baby food. if he'll eat regular food you might want to add a little warm water to make it easier for him to lap up. feed small frequent meals... a tsp or two at a time.

i've always steered clear of feeding raw for a few days after extractions/extensive dental work. i don't like the possibility of introducing any bacteria into kitty's mouth, but i have no idea if it's necessary. it's something you might want to discuss with your vet.

libby and i are both working today, but we'll be watching for updates. post when you can...
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Just talked to Michele who was on her way to pick up Crushy. This was similar to what happened with Hank's recent dental, although we had some sense his mouth was bad and were expecting at least a couple extractions going in. (just not 6..including 2 canines! :o ) Amen for x-rays!
She was hurrying to get him but called and they said he would be getting Clavamox sent home. This is not what this same vet prescribed us...we were on Clindamycin. (which tortured his GI) I tried to do a quick board search, but cautioned her as I thought Clavamox was the pink stuff that has sweetner in it. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Is Clavamox ok for diabetics?

She was rushed but I mentioned to ask about any sweeteners possibly in the AB, and she was also going to see if there were injectible options..which she prefers.
His surgery was not quite as involved as ours so hopefully he will have an easy recovery.
She had not seen the last couple comments on last nights thread..and did NOT give a dose this morning. So Crushy has missed 2 doses now.

So maybe this is part of the problem with why he has been so hard to regulate?...and also why a cat eating raw for 10 years got diabetes in the first place??? :? Who knows?
Just so great that he now has any painful toofies out and I know Michele will be so relieved to have him home.
He will be joining the snaggle tooth club!

You already got some great advice for recovery Michele, those are all things that helped us. Will be watching for updates!!!
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

betty, if you can reach michele tell her she might want to pickup Fortiflora from the vet. it's a probiotic which will help with any gi problems. if the vet doesn't have fortiflora or something similar she can pick up a human probiotic at any drug store.

we've always been given clindamycin after a dental. haven't had any problems, but i always give a probiotic about six hours away from the ab. although, sometimes clavamox has caused diarrhea with mine. i just increase the amount of the probiotic. i guess it's an ECID thing.

i steer clear of abs in liquid form because more often than not they contain sweeteners. i've always been successful crushing pills and adding to a small amount of food.


thank you for the update!
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

I did mention Fortiflora which I know this vet carries (just expensive so we got ours online)
Michele was just blazing to get him back home.

She said she has a lot of probiotic at home, but she may ask about it. If not she can order online where we got ours and we have a couple packs left i can loan in the meantime.
Hank's tummy was so messed up by the time he got his dental and had been on the AB's for awhile that he was not eating reliably enough to dose his probiotic on his food. So i tried Pearls at that point which were easy to get down him. Those she can get anywhere. She really just wanted to get home and not make any more stops.

Jill you are saying clavamox caused diarrhea with yours but Clindamycin just wreaked havoc on Hank for 3+ weeks. SO I guess it really is ECID.
Main thing was figuring out if there was sugar or not in the clvamox and if it was both ok for diabetics and also a good choice for dental issues.
Seems odd he would prescribe different ones to us for nearly the same issue.

It think she is feeling understandably overwhelmed so lets see what happens.

stay tuned
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

he's home!
I saw the x ray of his canine and it really did look bad. Even never having seen a cat dental x-ray before I could tell it was really really not right and should come out. Also it turns out he had already lost 4 teeth, not 2 as I previously thought. So with the 3 extractions today he is missing 7 teeth total.

He is a little disoriented and keeps moving his tongue around his mouth like something is not right there. I guess he's feeling it.

He ate a little...scarfed is more like it (thats my boy!) I only gave him a little though because he tends to eat when anxious and Im guessing a big stomach full of food is not a great idea right now. I think your right Jill about staying away from raw food (and mice) for a while because of potential bacteria with sores in his mouth. No need to tempt fate there.

Im going to go with an injectable clyndomycin. Its a little pricier but I just cant bring myself to stuff anything else in his mouth right now if he wont take the oral abs willingly. Im already dreading using Bupe....

Like Betty said I missed the last couple posts on his condo last night and didnt give any insulin this morning. He is at 402 right now. He keeps trying to drink water too and fighting with his tongue....I have some lactated ringer solution Im thinking about giving. I called the vet about it but they just said he should be well hydrated from the fluids at the surgery. Then why is he parked at the water bowl? Is it a BAD idea to give the fluids? anybody know?
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

If he wants to drink, let him, but only give him a little at a time. You don't want to upset his tummy

Same for food. If he's hungry and willing to eat, that's fine, but only a little at a time...teaspoon or 2 and as long as he holds it down, you can repeat every hour or so

I don't have any advice on giving fluids subQ

Glad it's all over and now Crushy can get to healing and feeling all better!!
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

he may just be hanging out at the water dish because he is nauseous, or maybe because he wants you to think you are starving him to death. ;-) He may be feeling confused or disoriented. Did you see Jill's suggestion to put him in a small, darkened room? That might make him feel more settled.

Have you given Crushy fluids before? Can you try pulling up on his scruff to see if he is dehydrated? The skin should snap back into place when you pull up on it. If he got fluids during the dental I imagine he is ok for tonight. You can add more water to his food if you want. It is possible to give too much fluids.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Usually, they have a line for fluids going (or available) during a dental. Too much fluids can cause hypervolemia which has all sorts of problems attached that I'd encourage you to avoid. So, no fluids. He may want to drink because his mouth feels funny.

Like Chris suggested, you want to feed in small amounts. The anesthesia slows the GI track and at the same time can act like an appetite stimulant. In other words, you could end up with "scarf-and-barf" which is not a good thing if you're giving Crushy his PM shot.

Did the vet give you any meds for pain? His mouth is going to be sore for a few days so hopefully, you have bupe.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

(((michele))))

so glad it's over! punkin had to have both canines removed, and other than looking funny he got used to it and did fine. crushy will adjust

clindamycin also gave him diarrhea and eventually c-diff - so i'm a big fan of probiotics with it. when you say the vet gave you injectible clindamycin, do you mean you're going to inject it for the next week or so? or do you mean one shot - i didn't think there was a long-lasting clindamycin. just checking.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Hi Michele,

Crushy will be fine. In fact probably better than fine :-D I've had 3 cats and one dog for pretty significant dental work and extractions and instead of being worse off or having a hard time eating, every single one of them is way better and eat better too :-D Worst of it is, with my last girl she lost 11 teeth and that's when I was still feeding hard kibble! I tried to give her wet food thinking she would be sore, but nope, straight into the kibble :lol:
If he's not dehydrated I wouldn't give subQ. I have noticed that alot of animals will hang around the water after anesthesia. I agree it is possibly due to nausea.
I did the same as you and went with an injectable AB. I didn't have the heart to muck with her mouth, and good call avoiding raw food until the mouth is healed.

You're such a great mama! Hang in there :-D
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Hi, Michelle,

I am glad that Crushy is back home with you. I am glad the procedure is over with. It is good that you got it taken care of. Don't worry he will heal. I am sure it was scary for you. We love these cats. I am praying for a quick recovery for Crushy. You are such a dedicated mom.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Michele, what time are you thinking of shooting tonight? If you do want to change shot times, this is a good time to do it.

Thanks for getting a test when you got home. It would be a good idea to test occasionally between now and your shot time, to gauge whether he will be one of those cats that drops after anesthesia.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Michele-

I will come back around later...I know you are still busy with him and taking care of things but in case you are checking here:


did you see jill say:
you'll want to test crushy when he gets home and then periodically until shot time. the idea is to get an idea of the rate of the rise or drop before you give him more insulin.
Click to expand...
(that anyone would need to tell you to test deserves a little laugh- but just in case you are out of it enough that it slips by...)


I would maybe give the bupe a little sooner than later. I may have waited a little too long and not gotten in front of the pain.
the vet had said to give it at 12 hours from the morning dose, which was the regular schedule. But he was acting very bizarrely and per some advice here on the board I went ahead and gave the bupe a little early and think it helped him to settle down a bit.
It was actually very easy to administer. .you hardly have to open the mouth at all or get anywhere near where it's tender. It did not seem to bother Hank at all like the AB did. You just squirt into the cheek pouch, and hold his mouth shut so he doesn't swallow and to let it soak in.

How is he seeming overall right now? Is he still a little out of it? Is he still drinking alot?
Do you have another BG?
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

ok small food amounts and no subQ fluids..thanks you guys!
I think the clindomycin is an every day injectable abx and I do have bupe. I just gave him his first dose of bupe a little while ago

I was thinking of shooting at my regular time 10:20
I just tested him at 350 and he was 400 two hours ago so he is dropping some. And thats with some food too.

So.....half dose? 3/4 dose?

he still seems a little disoriented like he's trying to find a comfortable spot to lay. He's purry and glad to see us though.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

ok, so you still have a few hours before shot time. I was thinking 1 to 1.5 units, but let's see where he goes in the next few hours.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

So glad Crushy is home and all went well with the dental.


You are getting great help so we will keep our paws crossed Crushy is 100% very soon. :YMHUG:
 

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Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

thanks Anne

Libby does the morning dose need to be lower too? or is that a wait and see as well?
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Im very glad he's home
his appetite is good but I can tell eating is a little uncomfortable for him. Not that that stops him at all though ;-)

btw is Bupe a blood thinner?
the blood on his ears is not beading like it usually does...its sinking into the fur. Black fur...hard to see
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Michele M said:
Im very glad he's home
his appetite is good but I can tell eating is a little uncomfortable for him. Not that that stops him at all though ;-)

btw is Bupe a blood thinner?
the blood on his ears is not beading like it usually does...its sinking into the fur. Black fur...hard to see
Click to expand...

happy to hear he's eating!
i don't know if bupe is a blood thinner. let me see if i can find anything online about it.

try applying a thin layer of vaseline on his ear.. it should help the blood to bead on his ear.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

i'm not seeing anything about bupe thinning blood. although dry mouth was one of the adverse effects mentioned in several places. that could explain why he was hanging out at the water bowl.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

ugh...last thing he needs right now is a dry mouth
poor guy

maybe the thinner blood is a side effect of anesthesia or something.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

yeah...I recall seeing that you should give extra water w/ Buprenex.
can't imagine it would thin the blood. Wonder if that is some sort of residual from the anesthesia?

Did they test him during procedure? wonder what his BG's were then?

What time did you give the Bupe?...are you going to end up on a crazy dosing schedule like we did where his next dose is due in middle of the night?
You could probably do 9-10 hours apart instead of 12 if it would help...especially this first day.

How's he doing...any updates? Seeming any more comfortable? Is he ok on the bupe?


ETA: we posted at the same time. great minds....
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

nice shooting. :smile: I don't know whether to hope Crushy gives you a nice easy cycle so you can both rest, or that Crushy races right back to nice blue/green numbers. I guess either way would be fine.

FYI, I don't know how you normally test, but Lucy has dark ears and I prefer to test on the inside of her ear. Less fur so I can actually see the blood drop.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Ill definitely be testing at +2

He is doing well on the Bupe...next dose is at 6am. I might give it a little earlier if Im up and testing or something. I have a feeling Im going to be half asleep with one eye on him most of the night...

they did test him during the procedure and said his bg was high....I cant remember the exact # though
He was so stressed out and had missed 2 shots I would have been surprised if it wasnt high
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

Jill & Alex said..
(+36) pmps 376 1u
Click to expand...
I thought you shot 1.5U?

I saw Libby mention 1-1.5 earlier but thought I missed something cause didn't see any word after that.


does he seem loopy on the bupe?..is he starting to settle in more now. Hopefully is is getting at least a little more comfortable.
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

I don't think I am making it to +2. Thanks everyone for keeping an eye on Crushy (and on you too Michele- lol!)

Will be anxious to see what numbers look like. Hope you get some sleep Michele, you need it.

And hope Crushy gets some sleep too...

night all!! I-)

:YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 11/19 Crushy Dental

345 at +2 so not much of a drop
Ill check him in a couple hours too just to make sure but it looks like it will be an uneventful cycle

night Betty
he does seem loopy on the Bupe, but not too bad...
 
i'm hoping he has a decent cycle, but not one that keeps you up all night. you must be beat!

are you ok on your own from here or would you feel better with some company?
 
Hi Michelle, quite the day for you and Crushy. I've been watching on the sidelines. I'm glad he got done what needed to be done. My civie is also missing a canine - and it's no big deal once they get used to it. I hope you get some sleep tonight. If he's a bit loopy on the bupe, you could sneak down the dose a bit. There's quite the range of doses that works for a certain weight of cat and sometimes you just have to play with it a bit. But rather he be pain free and loopy at this point.
 
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