11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115, +4.5 144

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OphiesMom

OphiesMom

Member Since 2013
Happy Sunday!

Thanks all for yesterday. Your support has been incredible!

With my new plan to stick to 1.5 (not 1.75) until Wednesday AM has calmed me down a great deal :). I'm looking forward to next week and our experiment to increase her dose and see how she does.

Just wanted to post my update for today :).

Joely
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 235, AMPS 222, +3 220

Good Morning, Joely and Ophie. It looks like you have some flat yellows so far. Flat yellows sometimes come before an active cycle. Are you going to be home tonight?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 235, AMPS 222, +3 220

Yes, we are going to be home. What's an active cycle?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 235, AMPS 222, +3 220, +6 190

Actually, her numbers are pretty flat.

Sorry, an active cycle would be one where you might have to test more often and be ready to feed to keep the numbers up, but Ophie looks like he's not into drama.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 235, AMPS 222, +3 220, +6 190, +9 182

Thanks for explaining! I had a chat with Ophie and let her know, "No drama allowed!" :lol: just in case she was thinking about it...

So far, so good. We're yellow most of the day, but that's okay for now. Off to work I go tomorrow, feeling very good about Ophie's safety.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 235, AMPS 222, +3 220, +6 190, +9 182

hi joely!

as you get more used to the whole thing it becomes infinitely less nerve-wracking! in fact, it gets downright routine after a while. in the meantime, going with a dose that feels safe to you is worth it. the 1.5u looks pretty good for the moment.

enjoy work! ;-) :-D
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11-235, AMPS 222, +3-220 +6-190 +9-182

Thanks Julie! It already has gotten so much easier (thinking of the ear poking!). I look forward to this becoming routine as well :).

At +10, Ophie's bg is 135. Perhaps Dyana was right and I'm having a Ophie's "mini" drama (active cycle?)? She did eat a tiny bit at her +9, so I think she would be showing effects of food for the +11? That may be wrong, I'm still trying to figure out the timing for when things take effect.

I'm wondering if at +11 or +12, and he number is low again, would I still shoot my 1.5? Ugh. I wasn't expecting this again for the 1.5 dose. But, I realize, I goofed up her depot over the weekend. I'm thinking I should pick-up her food (not that she's eating it) and see what turns up in an hour. I still have 1.5 hours before shot time.

I assume Catnip has no effect on BG, right? I've subbed her last bit of high carb "poke treat" for a lick of catnip. She likes the Catnip just as much and comes over asking for her pokes today just to get the Catnip.

Joely
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Hello, I just got Ophie's +11. She is due for her shot in 1/2 hour (moved up 15 minutes from her 6:45 shot this morning). She has been dropping all afternoon. Given my weekend and worry about shooting low, I"m a bit surprised she's so low so close to shot. Thoughts? She hasn't eaten in a bit and I picked up the food at her +10 reading. So, I'm facing the "do I shoot low" dilemma again... just in time for me to go to work tomorrow... UGH!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Hi and welcome!!!

I just need a second to catch up and I'll BRB so hold tight. Please do not feed her.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Ok....Ophie is clearing a little mini-bounce and so there is a good possibility her +12 will still be a little lower. I know you have a lot of think about but she could still have some influence from the 1.75u dose. When you reduce the dose, as you did to 1.5u, the higher dose (e.g. 1.75u) can affect up to six subsequent cycles. In most cats, it's likely 3-4 cycles but if the depot is fairly large, it can be up to six cycles.

I know the options have been mentioned before:
1. stall and test every 20 minutes until you get a rise and then shoot the rise. The cons to this are that she might keep dropping (as they often do when clearing a bounce) to the point where you don't feel safe shooting OR it puts you way too far behind your schedule

2. shoot a reduced dose. I'm not a big fan of reduced doses because it drains the depot a bit BUT you typically don't see that effect until a subsequent cycle. Tonight's cycle will likely be the same as it would be if you shoot the 1.5u. However, shooting a reduced dose might help you for tomorrow when you go back to work as she could be higher by then. So far, this is looking like a nice dose for her.

3. skip. Con...draining the depot and you can see the effects from skipping when you skipped the other morning.

So whether you shoot tonight depends upon:
--how much more she drops
--if you have supplies (plenty of strips, HC food, syrup/honey)
--if you can stay up to test her until she's rising without food and she might give you a nice lantus curve where she starts up again after she nadirs in the PM cycle

Thoughts? Questions?

PS...don't panic. We're here to help you through it :-D :-D
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Wow, this is just offal :cry: . I was feeling so up this morning. Thank you very much for helping, Marje.

I just tested her again (30 minutes out from the 109) and she is 112. I will test again in 20 minutes, which will technically be her +12, if I hadn't been trying to adjust her schedule.

OK, I will see what happens in 20 minutes. I MUST make sure she will be safe tomorrow, tuesday, and Wednesday.

So, if I shoot her low now at 1.5 units, tomorrow she could drop super low (dangerous) during the day, right?

Thank you again!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Yes, I'm here... sorry, I was digesting your email. Took me a few :-D
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Can you explain "clearing a bounce"... if she get through this "bounce" will/do things go back to normal? I was trying to find something in the stickies and announcements on bouncing, but I couldn't find anything to explain this process. Sorry, if that is a silly thing to ask about!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I don't think I've ever had a member call a BG of 112 "awful" unless their cat is one that usually surfs a lot of green. ;-)

So it's great that she is surfing!! IMHO, if you have supplies and can stay up to test, I'd shoot now. That way you can feed her and start getting numbers up. I wouldn't wait any longer. I will keep checking in on you and will ask you to get a +1 and +2.

Oh gosh....tomorrow is so far off in terms of an FD cycle. Things change a lot and fast. She could bounce tonight and be up tomorrow. We don't really know so try not to think too far ahead.

What do you think about shooting now and feeding?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

She seems to be rising ever so slightly...

At 6:30 112
At 6:50 114
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Ooppsss....cross posted on the bounce question. Before you read about "clearing a bounce", please be sure you read the above post about shooting now.

When our kitties are first dx, they've probably been in higher BG numbers for a bit of time. The liver gets used to those numbers and they become the new "normal". When you start giving insulin and numbers start coming down either quickly or to a number the liver is not used to (it doesn't have to be a low number...just lower than the liver recognizes as the new normal), then the liver releases counterregulatory hormones and glucagon to bring the BG back up to "normal". This is what we call a bounce. Bounces can take up to six cycles to "clear". In other words, when a bounce "clears", it means the counterregulatory hormones and glucagon that the liver released to bring the BG up are out of the blood and the BG can come back down (if the dose is correct). We suggest members ignore the bounces and focus on what the BG is when the bounce clears because that is the point where we can see if the dose is right, too little, or too much.

Does that make sense? We call this bouncing "liver training school". The liver has to get used to the "newer" normal.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

I would SHOOOOTTTTTTTTT!!!!! If you can monitor because she is on the way up. Remember what she did Friday morning.....started up up.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

Yes, I know the blues are good. I just wish I could be here to make sure she doesn't drop too low tomorrow. OK, I'm going to shoot and feed now... stay up with her tonight and see what happens.

She has some roasted chicken breast waiting for her. I know she'll gobble it up and be so happy.

Thank you, will report back at +1.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

OK, she's been shot. And, munch-munch-munch goes down her chicken with a big happy purr... !!

Thank you Marje! Fingers crossed! nailbite_smile
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, +11 109; Q: at what point do I panic?

GOOD JOB!!!!!!

I'd probably give her a little LC food, if it were me, and not just chicken breast. She needs some carbs to offset some of that insulin when it kicks in.

You are very welcome and I'll see you at +1.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

Hello, at +1, we are 112. This is just terrifying... when I consider at her AMPS was 222 and she dropped almost 110 "points" by +11... if she drops 110 "points" from her PMPS tonight, well... I can't go there. I recall someone mentioned kitties drop lower at night anyway? Please tell me I didn't just make a horrible mistake.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

She's still surfing. Did you give her some LC food??

Of course you would be scared but when they are lower, they don't drop the same amount as they do when they are higher. For example, when they start at 300 and drop 200 mg/dL it's because they have the "room" to drop. They don't continue that rate of drop once the numbers get lower. Yes...they can drop quickly; my Gracie went from 109 to 60 in 1.5 hours. BUT we were monitoring her and then fed the drop. That is why home testing is so important.

Remember....you are in control because you are testing and you have food to manage the curve. She's been very stable for several hours now.

The really important test is going to be her +2. We've found that if the +2 is similar to the PS, you will likely see an active lantus cycle where the numbers will come down to a nadir and then head back up. If the +2 is much lower than the PS, then you need to be prepared for a very active cycle and should probably test at +2.5 if she is below 100 just to see if she is going to onset early like they often will when the +2 is lower than PS. If the +2 is much higher than the PS, it's likely to be a very slow cycle.

So...let's get a +2. Breathe. Don't panic if the +2 is lower. Just post.....I'm watching for you.

And I do expect her +2 will be a bit lower. ;-) Come on Ophie and prove me wrong...come up so your mama won't worry.

And I'd give her a little LC food if you haven't.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

Thank you, Marje. Makes sense.

I took away her chicken (she was mad). She had no interest in her FF Chicken, until I gave her a Wellness Turkey. She ate some of both at that point.

I will get a +2 and report back!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

Hi, Joely, welcome to LantusLand! No, you are doing the right thing. And Ophie is doing great! :-D Like Marje says, you are in control because you test and you can feed her to bring her up, if necessary. She doesn't look like much of a diver to me but no guarantees around here. :lol: Be sure to breathe. And like Zener says, "more petting, less worry."
Liz, Zener's other mom (I sign my posts and Anne doesn't)
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

I'll look for you!!! Sorry it took me a few minutes last time. I was thinking you were testing exactly on the hour and gave you a few to test, feed, and then post.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112

You were very prompt Marje. Thank you! I'm testing at quarter to the hour and it takes me just a few to test, praise/treat, and post :).
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

At +2, we are 104. So, she will (likely) have a very active cycle? Or is the possible early onset?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

She's still pretty flat...it's not as low as I would have expected. I think you can go until +3. Would you be comfortable doing that?

I'm giving Gracie insulin right now so I'll BRB.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

I will test at +3. At what point might you think that I could think that she is safe?

Thank you!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

Ok...back so I'll watch for you if you have questions or if not, I'll check in at quarter till the hour.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

you're doing great, joely. this is where we all aim to go - and you will be able to control Ophie's blood sugar. don't worry.

Ophie will have a low point - we don't really know where it is yet for her. cats have different nadirs, but it'll be somewhere in the middle of the cycle, maybe. punkin's was at +5.5, some cats are at +2 or +3. what we'll be looking for is for the numbers to level out and head back up.

are you east coast time?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

As Julie said, we will just have to test and see where she wants to nadir. It varies from cat to cat and also, some cats change their nadir :roll: :roll:

This is where you take the opportunity to get some data which will help you see her patterns.

And she is totally safe. Our primary goal is "safe" at all times.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

btw, the post about bouncing is in with the post about New Dose Wonkiness. Lots of good info posts like this are at the bottom of the "New to the Group?" sticky. If you need to reference this one later (since Marje already explained it here) because you've forgotten what she said cuz there is so much to learn at the beginning ;-) (that would be me) you can find it there. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46012
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104

She is +3 115...

Thanks all for the support during this time.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

:-D :-D :-D gorgeous surf!!!!!

How would you feel about letting her go to +4.5? If she's rising still, you could get to bed after that. Or...if you want to test at +4 so you can hit the sack earlier if she's rising, that's ok, too. I was just trying to not poke too much.

What do you think?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

So what is your opinion on what happens in the morning? I have to be up at 4:30 and out the door by 6:30. I cannot be home to watch her tomorrow.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

I have to be up early, so I may close my eyes now, set alarm, and test at +4.5.

Thank you, again.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

You aren't going to be happy with me but there's so much that could happen between now and then. She could surf all night right around here, she could bounce and go way up, she could come back down at the end of the cycle.

The best thing to do is post and ask for help if you get a number below 150.

I'll try to post some scenarios for you here shortly but I need to test Gracie and grab dinner.

Should I look for you at +4 or 4.5?
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

I will be back at +4.5, thank you (in 1 hour and 15 minutes).

I know she's fine now and doing fine, but I think I made the wrong decision. I can't be home tomorrow... it was never about today or tonight, but tomorrow. I have no control tomorrow.

Have a great dinner. Thank you again.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

You're welcome. But please don't think you made the wrong decision. The only way for her to progress is for you to shoot safe numbers. You will have to work every M,T,We'd and you can't skip her shot every day that you work.

The other option is to see what she does and take the dose down a bit more.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

Yes, we will see what happens tonight. I think I was hoping to just make it through to Wednesday as "safe" and then do a little experimenting. I do work every M/T/W, but I was hoping to be a little better at this by next week. But, it is what it is... and I will continue on tonight with the choice I made!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

joely, she's been basically flat since her shot tonight. that's super. we love to see cats have a flat cycle - really. this is super. hehe people are looking at your subject line and having "cycle envy" at this very moment! ;-)

people who are starting tend to think that shooting a bigger number means the cat will be safer, but in fact, we see flat cycles come about when people shoot the lower numbers. She's very safe right now. Don't worry about the decision you made - i'd second Marje's assessment that this was a good choice.

one thing that helps people feel ok about leaving their cats when they go to work is to have a feeding plan in place. most cats will get hungry if their blood sugar drops lower than they are used to, so if food is available, they will eat.

a couple of options come to mind - one of them you can't arrange by morning, but perhaps by Tuesday. you can get a timed feeder that will open compartments at times you set so that the cat has food available. we used the PetSafe 5 compartment feeder. it's available online or in Petco. probably other places, but i bought ours at our local Petco and felt like it kept Punkin safe when i was at work. we shot him at 7am and the feeder could feed him 4 more times of our choosing. sometimes we did 10am, 10:45am, 11:30am and 12:15pm. that took him safely past his nadir. if you read reviews people will say that the feeder didn't open all the way. as long as it is seated fully in its base, it works. we always double checked ours after we seated it to make sure it would rotate fully and then it always did. the instructions tell you how to manually rotate the feeding tray.

the second option is to freeze "catsickles." mix canned cat food with water and freeze it in ice cubes. then when you leave for work, leave some out. as they thaw, hopefully, Ophie will eat the cat food.

another option for tomorrow morning is less-than-perfect but really safe. leave plenty of canned food out for her. if you have other cats at home that might get to it, perhaps she can be put in a bedroom with her food, water and a litter box. it'll be fine for her to eat all day. you might mix a little water in so it doesn't dry out, but you don't have to worry about it spoiling.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

Hi Marje... At +4.5, we are 144. I can safely go to bed (for good), no?

Thank you Julie for your thoughtful/supportive post. It was incredibly helpful. Ophie has been free fed her entire life and is a grazer by nature -- she never eats a lot in one sitting unless I withhold the food :roll: ... then she guzzles it. So,she will most definitely have LC wet food out at her disposal tomorrow all day.

What do you think? Thank you!!
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

Yay!! Looks like you can go to bed :-D

I left Dyana a message and asked her to look for you in the morning...she is often up really early and on the board and she's EST, too.

I think if Ophie is above 150, you should be able to shoot but you can post and ask for help. Just be sure you feed and also leave food out as Julie has discussed. She isn't a diver at this point. Because she's headed up now, she may be a little higher at AMPS.

If you get a number you are just afraid to shoot and leave and there is no one around, then skip.
 
Re: 11/17 Ophie, PMPS 114, +1 112, +2 104, +3 115

food is our best tool in this dance!

if i were you, i'd feel ok going to bed.

we all understand how nerve-wracking this can be. all of us have been there. i was feeling your anxiety. marje is right in saying that if you post in the morning with Ophie's numbers, Dyana will no doubt be looking out for you. she's up early! sometimes others are too - and anytime you get scared, just post asking for help in your subject line. people will respond.
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you Marje!! :)

I will be posting at +11 (I think? too sleepy to do the match). Her shot will need to be 15 minutes early in the AM (baring any problems, of course), so I can be out the door for the dreaded work.

I appreciate your support this evening so much.

I am off to zzzzz :)

Joely
 
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