11/17 Frank +11 505 / AMPS 470 / +5 432/+7 384 /+10 366

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Tina and Boozle

Tina and Boozle

Member Since 2013
Some high numbers, but largely uneventful day


Good Morning to everyone in sugar cat land! ~O)

Frank is chugging along. The extra water in his food is really helping with his dehydration. He almost has normal skin turgor now. His numbers are a little high pre-shot and for a little while afterwards. He is bright eyed and full of energy though. He is getting sneaky about peeing the last few days so I may have to alter the way I get pee for ketones. Every time he gets in the box and sees me coming, he gets out and will hold it until I am not paying attention. mmmhmm, silly kitty. Can't say I blame him too much, though.

Anyway... good day to all and hopes for an uneventful day! :-D
 
Re: 11/17 Frank +11 505 / AMPS 470

I don't know if Frank is the same way, but with J.D. I don't approach him until he is mid stream, and then he can't seem to just shut it off instantly as I approach. Do you use a ladle or small plastic cup to catch the pee?

Come on down, nice and easy, today, Frank.
 
Re: 11/17 Frank +11 505 / AMPS 470

Good morning Tina ~O)
I'm with Dyana. Twice would do the same thing when he saw me coming, but midstream is all MINE :lol: Great news about Frank getting more hydrated. C'mon down Frank, time to hit the yellows for a bit :-D
Have a great day Tina
 
Guess I may have got a muscle shot today. He seems to be on a bit of a delay. He didn't flinch or complain, though. Maybe he was just too hungry to bother with me this morning.

*Meant to say skin shot... don't know why I keep saying muscle.
 
the one time i hit a muscle in punkin, i heard about it. there was no mistaking that i'd hurt him. sometimes cycles are just a little weird.

oh, do you mean a "fur shot" - like you missed getting it in?
 
Tina:

Frank's numbers are pretty high although it's good to see him coming down into the pinks today. On the German Lantus board and the version of the protocol they use, they note that if numbers are in the range where Frank is currently hanging out, you can increase in 2 - 3 days. On the other hand, in the version of the protocol that's used here, the recommendation is to hold the dose for 3 days.

This evening, Frank would be at 5 cycles at the 1.0u dose since the skipped shot. (We count consecutive cycles.) Given the high numbers and Frank's having flirted with ketones, I'd be inclined to raise his dose to 1.25u. However, I also want you to have the information so you can make a decision. My understanding is that you're home tomorrow so you can get some AM tests. I think it's your call if you want to increase tonight.
 
sienne's given you some good information to consider. what do you think?

sometimes when we increase the dose we don't see a change right away - in some cats it's another cycle or so before the dose increase shows up. do you have questions about it?
 
Thank you, Sienne. If I raised it tonight, I would probably worry too much. I usually don't make it far past +4, and once I am asleep, I am down for the count. Brian gets up earlier than me and if he is up early, he will test him. Otherwise, he in on his own in the evenings.

If I wake up and he is in the black again, I will definitely consider raising the dose, since I will be home all day. I have a month off starting December 16th, where I will be more flexible.
 
Julie, I overlooked your first post earlier. I know I got it in. No smell, no wet fur. I don't think it penetrated into his subcutaneous layer though. From what i understand, if you shoot into their skin but not far enough, it delays the response of the insulin and then it does not last as long. Then, in contrast, if you shoot it into the muscle, the absorption rate is quicker but again, it does not last as long.
 
Tina --

Do you remember where you read about the difference in absorption rates? There was a member whose vet advised her to shoot into muscle to slow the absorption rate. I also wonder if this is relevant to Lantus. Lantus has a slightly acidic pH. When you inject it, due to the body which is slightly basic, microcrystals form that are deposited in the fat tissue. I don't know if the speed of the process would be altered based on shooting subcutaneously or intramuscularly.
 
Sorry, I don't remember. I may have heard it in one of the classes I took or read it in one of my textbooks.That would be information that is at least ten years old and for humans, though. I know that what I learned at that time was, if you inject in a muscle, it absorbs very quickly. You'll get a fast peak and then the insulin wears off quickly. If you inject into the top layer of skin, it goes slowly and wears off quickly. I only assume that the action would be the same in cats, which may be incorrect. I don't know how that would work with Lantus though. It's worth following up on though. Let me dig around and see if I can find some information.
 
interesting. i never paid attention to that when i shot punkin (he passed away in may). i just held up a tent and shot. i'll be curious to see if you find anything about it.
 
There are plenty of random sites and discussions that cover this topic, but none with any notable reputation. So, I resorted to digging in the school databases. Complete with MLA citation. :lol: This is still in relation to humans.

"intramuscular injection of regular, NPH and glargine insulin has been associated with more rapid insulin release, variability in glycaemic control and an increased risk of hypoglycaemia"

"Subcutaneous regular insulin results in improved postprandial glucose control, while intramuscular injections have been associated with an increased risk of hypoglycaemia, particularly with exercise [3]. With the increasing use of analogue insulin, the risk of intramuscular injection may be attenuated. However, intramuscular glargine has been associated with hypoglycaemia [5]. As blood flow to muscle is more dynamic and increases particularly with exercise, more variable release of long-acting analogue insulin may occur from intramuscular injections [15]. There may be less of an effect of injection depth with rapid-acting insulin agonists, although the effect of physical activity has not been assessed [16]."

Hofman, P. L., et al. "An Angled Insertion Technique Using 6-Mm Needles Markedly Reduces The Risk Of Intramuscular Injections In Children And Adolescents." Diabetic Medicine 24.12 (2007): 1400-1405. Consumer Health Complete - EBSCOhost. Web. 17 Nov. 2013.
 
many of us are science geeks where it relates to feline diabetes! ;-) :lol:

good to see the citation and the information - thanks for finding it!
 
Haha... I just have a research paper hangover. Looking forward to my one month break.

Did you see the picture of my dirty kitty? He was dirtier when we started caring for him. He looked like he marinated in a mud puddle. They gave him a bath at the vet's office and he still looked dirty. Ah...well...he will eventually shed the brown off, I hope.
 
no worries.

is your dirty kitty frank? :lol: frank of the profile pic? he looks adorable! what did he get into? or was that just how dirty he was when you found him? what a lovable face.
 
I have no clue how he got that dirty. He had been hanging out on and off around the house for years. You couldn't touch him at first and when we were able to touch him, picking him up was an absolute no-no. When he got sick, I guess he just didn't have the energy to fight. Now, you can't tell he wasn't always a house cat.
 
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