11/17 Charlie amps:420, 4.4u of new vial pz

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Charliemeow

Charliemeow

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Amps:420, 4.4u

Today's the big day...testing the new bottle of pz. I'll test him frequently and have all my high carb foods and syrups ready. Wish us luck!
 
C'mon Charlie...you looked so good in your blues last week. try them on again for us.
eagerly waiting his +6
 
+5:309 now he's eating lunch. I'll test again at +6 but he may still be on a food spike. I really want to see yellow at the very least! A little more blue on his ss would've been so nice, though.
 
don't waste a strip on +6 if he's eatting now...go at least +6.5
you still have time for a decent yellow....
 
Ok, I'll do a +6.5 then. I told Jim that everyone is rooting for him and he said REEEEOOWWW! I guess at the very least, his old vial wasn't a total dud.hopefully it was a little weak, though. I'd really like to see some improvement.
 
is jim your husband? or did you mean to say charlie? or does jim meow?? :lol:
 
+6.5:334
Well it's not looking like a problem with the insulin. That stinks. I'll check him again at 7.5. I really wanted some yellow today!
 
yeah, looks like he's heading back up.
maybe it's time we had another group pow wow over what to do next with charlie.
the notion of TID is not on your radar screen eh? i could'nt do it so i don't blame you. also since he hits his low at +6ish you would be working the overlap. would love to see that even if only once or twice.
 
I just know that tid is not something I could keep up indefinitely, and I don't know what the point of doing it just for a few days would be, ya know? I could do it as an experiment (it wouldn't be a perfect 8/8/8), but I could not do it everyday. And if it showed good results, I'd feel like a real jerk that I couldn't keep it up. I'd almost rather not know that it works for him. Ignorance is bliss?
 
i know...and we're not ready just yet to turn away from 4.4
however if you did do it and it worked...the theory would be he's a lantus kitty.
sorry, i know how much you don't want to do that. and you don't have to follow their strict protocol.
lantus stores up in the body and tends to just function all day long with a reserve tank.
in other words..in lantus they look more for a nice good numbered flat line while we work a curve. they use insulin in a way that it never runs out. same as shooting TID.
 
+7.5: 320

Down a bit from 6.5. He may have still been coming down from his food. Anyone think I should get a +8.5?
 
if you don't mind..would be nice to see if he's flatlining, zoomin up or still....going down?
priceless info if you can get it.
 
~O)

Not rebound.
Not insulin potency.

So ...that leaves resistance, right? Might need a different insulin? But I don't think the dose is high enough yet to rule PZ in or out.

Well Claudia...we haven't reached 5u yet. I know it sounds like a lot...and yeah it sort of is and isn't. Even Lantus acknowledges cats regulate somewhere up to 10u...even on Lantus.

Attie was at 8u BID of Humilin N when I got him back. What you're doing here...we had to do backwards....((((((((((Charlie)))))))))))). I'd much rather done it this way.

Well Lori & Gator...my concern is we're not seeing a real shift down. I think we go up assertively on dose. Claudia I would get the Acro tests done.
 
yes blue, much has been ruled out.
like you i'm not finished with pz.
but would like to give him one more cycle on 4.4....than maybe 4.8?
he did do so well on his very first 4.4
i know he's got it in him.
here's one small crazy i thought of. is it possible your little girl shares goodies (ice cream anything really) with charlie?
 
+8.75: 298

Finally a yellow! I'm glad I checked again. Is it weird that his nadir was at +9? Maybe it's actually lower at +6ish, but his food spike disguises it? But then it'd be weird that it takes him 3 hours to come down from his food high.

No food sharing going on. We keep Charlie away when Lorelei is eating. So he can't mooch from her. And all the cupboards are baby-locked, so he can't sneak food from there. And he lives separate from darla (civie) so he can't steal her food either.
 
YAY for yellow!
you did it charlie!!!
now that you brought it up about food. i would only say this. a diabetic on insulin should be able to handle a healthy low carb meal without a significant spike. if you can test directly before lunch and then again +3 after lunch you'd have i think a clear pic of how his day went.
i'd say he had a late nadir and guess what? i've seen stranger things than a continued drop.
looking forward to pmps.
 
lori and tom said:
here's one small crazy i thought of. is it possible your little girl shares goodies (ice cream anything really) with charlie?
Click to expand...


I was sort of thinking the same thing. A house with little ones who see their kitty getting pokies and shoties...

Things like Cheerios left sitting on the coffee table, crumbs on the floor, sharing a few licks of milk or juice....
 
Blue said:
Well Lori & Gator...my concern is we're not seeing a real shift down. I think we go up assertively on dose. Claudia I would get the Acro tests done.
Click to expand...
I'm a little short on time and have not really followed Charlie [I'm finding it challenging just to track Squamee :smile: ]. I'm going to see if I can't dedicate a little time tonight to studying things and maybe add some additional thoughts. But basically I agree with the acro/IAA test [except the growth hormone test is currently unavailable??] and proceeding. He's looking to me like he needs more insulin. Best case the deltas look like not even 50% - not very deep: again a sign that more insulin is needed.

Define "assertively" [size and frequency]?

Another thing is that I'm better with the smaller doses. Nancy is experienced with the bigger doses but she is potentially dealing with some other priorities as I understand.
 
Pmps:384, 4.4u
I'm with Lori- gonna hold for another day or so, if for no other reason than to give charlie's ears a rest. They're pretty beat up after today. He's such a good boy! Then I guess we go up again. The acro test will have to wait till dh is back to work. Thanks for all the support today, everybody!
 
i know the $ is tight and i don't think we havet suspect acro or even test at this point.
after all, even if he is acro...what are we gonna do differently.
and btw, you can't raise the dose if you don't know his nadir...i mean you can but...well, go ahead but then check for nadir with raised dose.
you don't have to do full curves..just get in that +6 on 2 hour empty tummy if possible
and claudia, this type of testing won't go on forever. really once we get him on track you'll only occasionally curve and occasionally nadar.
 
I don't want to raise for a day or 2. Today's nadir was at +9. is that when I should continue testing for it? How long should I stay at 4.4?
 
Hi Claudia,
From what you have told me /us in the past about Charlie, I think acro is likely.
Also, as I said before, you don't have to worry about getting the test, because it doesn't really change anything we're doing now. If he gradually gets to 16u along with Cody and friends, you saved $200. :-D

Gator, they stopped doing some other related test(forget the name); the IGF1 is still done at Michigan State U vet lab. I forget the details of the other test, but the doctor who does the stereotactic radiation in Colorado wanted her "patients' to get that test as a followup- it was offered somewhere out west....like Minnesota maybe.

Claudia,
I would use this vial and see where you are dose wise. You have roughly 400 units. at 10u/day that is about 5 weeks. Its time to start talking to your vet about the future possibility of other insulins like levemir so she can do her research (which takes TIME in our experience). At high doses (probably about 8u BID,) lev becomes more cost effective. It becomes harder to switch the larger the dose, because without a diagnosis its start over time. With a diagnosis (or a slowly ramped up high dose ) I switched from 14u prozinc to 7u lev, and flew back up. Ive seen some folks switch and use the same dose, but... I would be terrified. (Although he ended up at a similar place)

Obviously, if the test were free it would be great to know-
but you still have to ramp up, and test and test- just what we are doing with out knowing.
The bad news is that testing doesn't let up in acro- you have to be on watch for the surprise fluctuations at any time. Dont tell anyone but acros are smarter :-D :lol:
 
Im trying to remember, but as we got up in dose I think I saw nadir around +7/8 more often. when do you feed?
How about a +5 and +8 or there abouts (Before food)
 
Just looking ahead - is there some point at which we might want to "transfer" Claudia over to high dose forum? Like over 5u? Would there be any benefit of this?
 
NOOOOOO gator. what do we need the high dose forum for?
and i don't think 5u is high dose. those peeps shoot 10u plus.
claudia should stay right here with us as we know her and charlie and his 'specialness'
unless she switches insulins...or gets acro tested. we have a room for acro right?
 
Yeah, I can test at 5 and 8. 5 is right before he eats, and 8 would be 3 hours after the meal. I'll do those. I just hate that my vet thinks that maybe his numbers are good enough. I feel like she wouldn't be receptive to learning about other insulins or pursuing acro testing. I feAr that if I bring up the thought that Charlie may end up high-dose and that lev would be more cost effective would just lead her to say that I should just leave him where he is in dose (remember she said that he may be good enough since he isn't showing any clinical signs). Which I will not do. I will raise him on my own and when I can afford it I would switch vets.
 
claudia it's really easy for her to just script you levemir. why does it have to be such a big deal for her? she knows he's diabetic. she knows your treating it. OMG, what's wrong with people. i say don't ask, just say you are going to try levemir for your next script. be assertive.
 
lori and tom said:
NOOOOOO gator. what do we need the high dose forum for?
and i don't think 5u is high dose. those peeps shoot 10u plus.
claudia should stay right here with us as we know her and charlie and his 'specialness'
unless she switches insulins...or gets acro tested. we have a room for acro right?
Click to expand...


Maybe we're not ready to transfer just yet...but maybe a peep could check in on Charlie?
 
Charliemeow said:
Yeah, I can test at 5 and 8. 5 is right before he eats, and 8 would be 3 hours after the meal. I'll do those. I just hate that my vet thinks that maybe his numbers are good enough. I feel like she wouldn't be receptive to learning about other insulins or pursuing acro testing. I feAr that if I bring up the thought that Charlie may end up high-dose and that lev would be more cost effective would just lead her to say that I should just leave him where he is in dose (remember she said that he may be good enough since he isn't showing any clinical signs). Which I will not do. I will raise him on my own and when I can afford it I would switch vets.
Click to expand...


I just set Attie up with Dr. Price in Strongsville Animal Hospital. Draw back...she is not versed in Lantus. Plus...she is willing to work with where we're at and learn and ....is ready to recommend a specialist for his IBD issue if food tweeking fails. One vet direction to go. Obviously I like her...

Second option is to try the Avon Lake Animal Hospital. http://www.avonlakeanimalclinic.com/index.php They actually link over to FelineDiabetes.com as an internet resource on their website. Big fancy place...
I've got an email in to them to find out about pricing for Attie's GI tract to be scoped.
 
Wow this is a lot harder on a phone....
I have felt many of your feelings and will post more tomorrow. It part of why we got to 14 u before we finally switched. I just couldn't afford 2 vials a month anymore. Time will tell for charliie . Well just have to see where he goes. Btw thanks gator for the cosco tip. Bought a vial for$ 85. Cheapest prior was 101 ;))))
 
Yes, I just do about everything except stand on my hands about the Costco tip. :-D Glad it worked for you. If you have AAA make sure to get the http://www2.caremark.com/aaa/ AAA discount card signed up with them for EACH cat [and human]. Also their own Costco discount program for "non-insured," I'm somewhat confident, can even help with pet meds and is sometimes even cheaper than the AAA program which is generally the lowest. You just have to get to know the pharmacists and ask them to check which is lower. It seems most have pets themselves and take interests in the folks who are caring for their animals. cat_pet_icon

Costco doesn't do everything perfect but they are par none in customer service. :smile:
 
I suppose I could just demand the script if it came to that...but I'm not a very aggressive person. But you gotta do what you gotta do. But I wouldn't do that till my dose got significantly higher. There's always the chance that when I get to a certain point, his need for insulin may start to decrease (unless he's acro of course).

I'm lucky that pz at the vet is only $90. The nearest Costco is 35 minutes away, so not really worth the drive to save $5. But I've heard it's more expensive at other vets, so that is a great tip!
 
I just wish Costco pharmacy would sell the good hardware too at good prices - like GNP or Monoject insulin syringes and Terumo needles. And I've not yet be able to get IV sets from them at any price :cry: $90 is an OK price at a vet & local to you. Some pet only or even human medicines are not even available at all vets. Our local vet here does not carry buprenorphine for instance, and to be able to get it from Costco is great. I've found them very willing to special order in anything with having to worry about getting overcharged.
 
I think Costco will mail order meds- if that helps anybody.
Probably not a good idea with insulin that needs to stay cold.
The price I mentioned ($85) was for a vial of lev, I didn't ask about Prozinc.
I was hoping they woud have a better price for my DD's epilepsy med, but it is still $50 more than Medco by mail. Anybody want my daughter's $650/month Rx bill???? She's really nice :o
 
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