11/16/20 - Squeaky! +6=78. AMPS=600 +6.5= 372 PMPS=318 +5.5=321

Jan D & Squeaky

Member Since 2020
Disregard my message on your 10/30. You already did it on your own.

I wonder if he went even lower last night. I would have gotten one more test to see. He’s bouncing either way. Is the budesonide doing its job?
 
Disregard my message on your 10/30. You already did it on your own.

I wonder if he went even lower last night. I would have gotten one more test to see. He’s bouncing either way. Is the budesonide doing its job?

Thanks Elise. The main issue for which we were using budesonide was diarrhea. Yes it is doing it's job. He's been having great poops.

The vomiting seems to be related to the high BG numbers.

Yes he seems to be bouncing worse and worse. In the main forum, I've been discussing what happened this morning (4 vomits) with THH who is very experienced. She says, "If he's vomiting due to pancreatitis, pancreatitis is very painful. Pain will increase bg. If the cerenia doesn't help enough, he may need pain medication like buprenorphine or gabapentin."

However, seems he is vomiting when his BG numbers get too high. I have no clue if it's related to pancreatitis.

Keeping the ?? up until others chime in.
 
Domino effect. Pain will increase glucoses, high glucoses make them feel yucky, which can cause vomiting, nausea. Could be having a flare. Could give pain med for awhile and see if glucose comes down and vomiting stops. Do you have cerenia? It also helps with inflammation.
 
Domino effect. Pain will increase glucoses, high glucoses make them feel yucky, which can cause vomiting, nausea. Could be having a flare. Could give pain med for awhile and see if glucose comes down and vomiting stops. Do you have cerenia? It also helps with inflammation.

Gave him 4 mgs of cerenia this morning after vomits. THH advised continuing cerenia until eating normally.

How much bupre should I give?

Oh my, he hates the bupre.
 
Gave him 4 mgs of cerenia this morning after vomits. THH advised continuing cerenia until eating normally.

How much bupre should I give?

Oh my, he hates the bupre.

How much bupre, hmmm. What was scripted? Is it fresh bupre? It depends on concentration of it and Squeakys weight.

We had a Squeaky, we bottle fed her since she was 3 days old. She lived until she was 20 yrs. She was dilute torti and had tortitude you wouldn't believe. Did not like women.
 
@Wendy&Neko - @Vyktors Mum @Bandit's Mom This is what I sent to the vet today.

Summary: He has mostly been eating only baby food for the last 3 to 4 days, not his usual raw pork which he loves.

Last night his blood glucose went down to 78. This morning, over 600. This morning he had 4 vomits. I gave him 4 mgs of cerenia this morning after vomits.

Okay in general, something seems to be going amiss with Squeaky. This morning I've figured out that when his numbers go over 600, it seems to be causing vomiting. This has happened three times already, over 500 and vomiting.

His curves were flatter 2-1/2 months ago when we started giving insulin. Now they are way extreme. Yes the bounces are shorter in duration, which is said to be an improvement, but they are more extreme, mostly on the higher end. So why does some part of this seem to be getting worse instead of better?

No history of ketones. Last test was Friday, normal.

Squeaky has vomited two small hairballs in the last two vomiting episodes. He NEVER used to shed before. 12 years I wondered why this cat never shed. I wonder if he would be vomiting if he was not shedding as usual.

He is on 3 units now of lantus insulin.

I am still waiting to hear what some other experienced people have to say. I know you are doubtful about their methods, but they have had 452 diabetic cats go into remission since 2008. Plus as you said, they are there at 2 am for me. And 9 am. And 3 pm. And 9 pm.

So as I see it the issues are: 1) bounces are more extreme 2) high numbers seem to be causing vomiting. 3) has mostly been eating only baby food for the last several days instead of the raw pork he loves so something is off there. 4) back legs are still weak.

About the back legs, board suggested Vitacost Vitamin B12 methylcobalamin, but it seemed to upset his stomach he had diarrhea after that. I have ordered another one to try, specific for cats: zobaline.

Other than that, he is mostly doing okay. Poop is good. Eating enough. Hates pilling, ear pricks and shots of course. Loves cuddles, fires in the wood stove, going outside.

Thanks, let me know if you have any questions. Looking forward to your assessment. I have put some comments from board members below and am waiting for some other experienced people to comment.

Best,
Jan and Squeaky

People on the board say:
THH advised continuing cerenia until eating normally. 4 mgs /day
THH says: "If he's vomiting due to pancreatitis, pancreatitis is very painful. Pain will increase bg. If the cerenia doesn't help enough, he may need pain medication like buprenorphine or gabapentin."

Olive says: "Domino effect. Pain will increase glucoses, high glucoses make them feel yucky, which can cause vomiting, nausea. Could be having a flare. Could give pain med for awhile and see if glucose comes down and vomiting stops. Do you have cerenia? It also helps with inflammation."

Critter Mom says: "It is possible that the shedding may be due to Squeaky benefitting from the insulin treatment. As you know, when a kitty becomes diabetic it can't use the nutrients it eats effectively. In order to protect itself, the body tends to focus the energy available on life-sustaining functions to the detriment of processes like regrowth of the hair coat. With insulin treatment the body becomes better able to use ingested nutrients so it is then able to steer resources to additional bodily functions. Sometimes kitties then start to replace the hair coat and this can cause marked shedding."

Wendy says: "Yes, shorter bounces is good. It's a sign he's getting more used to normal BG numbers. Only once he is comfy in those numbers with the amount of bouncing go down."
 
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Thanks Elise. The main issue for which we were using budesonide was diarrhea. Yes it is doing it's job. He's been having great poops.

The vomiting seems to be related to the high BG numbers.

Yes he seems to be bouncing worse and worse. In the main forum, I've been discussing what happened this morning (4 vomits) with THH who is very experienced. She says, "If he's vomiting due to pancreatitis, pancreatitis is very painful. Pain will increase bg. If the cerenia doesn't help enough, he may need pain medication like buprenorphine or gabapentin."

However, seems he is vomiting when his BG numbers get too high. I have no clue if it's related to pancreatitis.

Keeping the ?? up until others chime in.

Max had chronic pancreatitis for a few years before becoming diabetic. For many cats it’s very painful. I did give him bupe at times but not not always. It’s such a difficult disease because different cats react differently and the symptoms change with subsequent bouts. Max always became inappetent. If I caught it as it started many times I could prevent him getting worse with ondansetron and sometimes cerenia. A couple times he vomited but rarely. A few times he had diarrhea but it went away once or twice without medication and a few times quickly after a few doses of flagyl. Stress was a factor with him for sure. More than once I went for a routine check and he got pancreatitis soon after coming home. I firmly believe it’s a trial and error thing. Definitely when not feeling well the bg would increase.
 
How much bupre, hmmm. What was scripted? Is it fresh bupre? It depends on concentration of it and Squeakys weight.

We had a Squeaky, we bottle fed her since she was 3 days old. She lived until she was 20 yrs. She was dilute torti and had tortitude you wouldn't believe. Did not like women.

Wow about your Squeaky!

Bottle says: .2 ml by mouth. 8/19/2020 0.3mg.ml oral solution (chicken) Squeaky weighs 13.4 lbs.
 
I would try it. If his bg drops an hour or two after, you'll know the high bg was at least partially caused by pain.

Hmmm. Thanks for your thoughts. Something to think about.

However historically whenever he gets over 600, his BG always drops pretty quickly afterwards anyway. And then goes low, and then he bounces again......
 
It won't hurt to try the bupre.

Thank you, maybe not. Well he hates it. He told the animal communicator that it hurts his mouth. He also doesn't like the drugged feeling it gives him.

Plus..... He got pilled this morning, feels lousy, unhappy about ear pricks. I don't want to do more yucky stuff to him unless I am sure it's a good idea.

Waiting to hear from the vet. I have emailed her. I will keep this in mind. At least, his numbers have fallen today from 600+ to 372. I appreciate your input.

Looking forward to more input from others! Keep those thoughts coming, they are all helpful. They help give me a bigger picture of what's going on. Thank you all. Thank you Olive. (My grandma used to have a friend named Olive.)
 
What about giving him 0.1mL buprenorphine instead of 0.2mL? Maybe that will help his pain without making him so groggy.

Yes I did not hear back from the vet..... Okay I will plan on doing this when we do our evening routine. He isn't fond of me picking him up unawares to do some "dastardly deed". Better to make it part of the routine.

Thanks.

Or maybe..... that's just what he needs right now. I will try. It's a long time until 9:30, 3 hours.....
 
Squeaky weighs 13.4 lbs
Gave him 4 mgs of cerenia this morning after vomits. THH advised continuing cerenia until eating normally.
THH is not a vet. I would run giving Cerenia and dosing by your vet. 4mgs would be under dosing for a cat of his size. According to the section on nausea in (2016) ISFM Consensus Guidelines: Diagnosis & Management of Feline Chronic Kidney Disease a cat should get 2 mg/kg for Cerenia by pill. Squeaky weighs 6 kg, so dose would be closer to 3 times larger.

What protein of baby food is Squeaky eating? Is it a protein that is OK with his IBD? That could cause vomiting. Baby food is also not a complete food so you will have to find something else he will also eat soon.
 
THH is not a vet. I would run giving Cerenia and dosing by your vet. 4mgs would be under dosing for a cat of his size. According to the section on nausea in (2016) ISFM Consensus Guidelines: Diagnosis & Management of Feline Chronic Kidney Disease a cat should get 2 mg/kg for Cerenia by pill. Squeaky weighs 6 kg, so dose would be closer to 3 times larger.

What protein of baby food is Squeaky eating? Is it a protein that is OK with his IBD? That could cause vomiting. Baby food is also not a complete food so you will have to find something else he will also eat soon.

Hi Wendy, thanks for your reply. I have run it all by the vet; she did not answer today. No surprise about that.

He is eating ham baby food. Pork is good for his IBD. I don't think it is causing the vomiting. I think the high BG is causing the vomiting. Yes I know it is not a complete food. He has also been eating a little of the homemade "supplement" consisting of egg, eggshell calcium, and beef heart and liver.

So kindly, if you can, tell me what you think about his extreme bounces that seem to be getting worse instead of better? And more frequent, shorter in duration. And the vomiting at the high points, over 600?

I am baffled.

Thanks a bunch,
Jan
 
Budesonide is bitter, that maybe why he is ignoring his food if you are putting it in his food. I ended up getting it compounded chicken flavour liquid and that was easier to give. You should try pilling it to make sure he is getting it.

Neko would occasionally do a foamy vomit in really high numbers, but only once she got used to better numbers. Shorter bounces is good.
 
Budesonide is bitter, that maybe why he is ignoring his food if you are putting it in his food. I ended up getting it compounded chicken flavour liquid and that was easier to give. You should try pilling it to make sure he is getting it.

Neko would occasionally do a foamy vomit in really high numbers, but only once she got used to better numbers. Shorter bounces is good.

Thanks, it is vanilla flavored budesonide. That doesn't seem to be the problem. He's been on it for a while. The vet says cats like the vanilla. I didn't notice an issue. And a few days, I did pill him instead of putting it in the food. The IBD issue was diarrhea.

It did seem like trying the methyl B12 Vitacost with folic acid, he didn't like that and it might have caused the vomiting two days ago. But I took him off it.

It was early this morning, he jumped out of bed and vomited. That would have been the time when he was coming up from 78 to 600.

Thanks for your input, it is helping the thinking process and the ruling things out process!!!!

I know this seems like a mystery....... How many cat experts does it take to unscrew the challenge of Squeaky's issues? :cat: :bighug:

EDIT: today he also ate some pan seared pork that I ground up using a baby food grinder. And some beef treats.
 
It won't hurt to try the bupre.
They get use to it after awhile if it given routinely

Thank you for bugging me about it. I think it was a good idea. His numbers are not so extreme today and I am grateful.

He was on it before, I know about the tolerance. Thanks again. I feel relieved that he's not bouncing so extremely today. Two or three cycles in a row like that, how hard on the cat. Thanks again.
 
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