11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94, +2 65, 5.30 79

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phlika29

phlika29

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone

Today looks a little like yesterday's condo.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=128350

I reduced his dose last night to 0.5 but I guess the she'd is still full. On a very positive note he passed a MASSIVE motion. Something you might expect a child to pass :shock: . I am very pleased as today I was going to take him to the vets if he hadn't gone. Maybe that's what made his blood sugar drop :-x is certainly spent enough time trying to coax him, massaging into going as well as miralax. It wasn't even hard, just very big. Anyway enough toilet talk ;-)

I need to get a grip of managing these +2/possible late nadir. I will try to get a +11 test today to see where he is at but in the meantime can someone advise me how they slow down a quick glucose drop. Should I be giving more food at +1 and if so just low carb or low carb and a drop of honey. By slowing it down will it actually prevent it from going lower later on?
 
Re: 11/14 remi AMPS 106, +1 86, +2 49, 2.30 70

Sometimes I give Max mc at +1 to slow down the process. For me that is 9% because that is what I have that he will eat. I did that tonight and it seemed to work. I'd try something over your usual lc and see if it helps.
 
Re: 11/14 remi AMPS 106, +1 86, +2 49, 2.30 70, +3 68, +3.30

I'm not sure how you're dividing up meals already, but feeding at preshot, +1, +2 and +3 is a good starting point for trying to slow down early cycle drops.

When deciding what to give at +1, I'd compare the +1 test to the preshot. Assess how quickly he's dropping at that point and decide if you want to just give LC at +1 or if you want to add a drop of honey to it. He's doing really well so I don't think one drop of honey given pre-emptively at +1 to flatten his cycle will hurt anything.

Keep track on his ss what you give at +1 and over time, you'll be able to look back and see what you did in a previous situation and what the response was. That will guide you in what to try next.

Does that make sense?
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94

Thanks Julie

I usually feed him at PS, +2, +4 and +6. But will try the regime you suggest

I managed to get in a late test and it seems to be pretty level tonight with the PMPS.

+10.30/ 92
PMPS 94
+1 94

I will feed again at +1 and I think that unless it is higher than the PS test I will add a little honey as I am out tonight at +2 until at least +4 and very nervous of leaving him.

I also hope it was okay to keep to the 0.50 insulin dose tonight even though he went low today as it was within 4 cycles of his last below 50 glucose because of the shed. I do to think I explained that right but hopefully you go what I meant. It was only yesterday evening that I dropped to .50
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94

I'm not sure I would go with PS, +1, +2, +3, since his drops are usually occurring before +2. What ideas do you have?

I'm curious, what % carbs is the food you usually use at PS? And approximately what quantity? And (one more), when you feed low carb or low carb + honey to try to stop the drop, what quantity of food are you feeding then?

I'm trying to think things through.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94

I use the same food all of the time as I daren't change it in case his IBD flairs. It is the thrive complete chicken and it is very low carb. I forget quite how low at the moment but the protein content is 75 %. Will find the details in a second. I went for that one as it is very low in fat and fat does seem to be a trigger for his liver issues. I am thinking of changing it over at some point as his last blood test showed high urea levels which the vet did say could be many things including high protein diet. What I am not sure is whether long term this high urea level actually causes kidney damage rather than just being a side effect of something. Anyway I digress...

Quantity wise I give 20g at preshot, 15g +2, 15g +4 and 15 g at +6.

With regards bringing his BG level up I give 2 drops/blobs of honey in tsp of the same low carb food. The other day when I went out and was worried he might get low I did 2 drops of honey in his usual 15 g bowl.

I don't really have many ideas on this one I am afraid. :oops:
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94

Sorry Libby I didn't say hi

Here is the thrive info

thrive Complete Chicken Breast

% kcal Protein: 75.3%
% kcal Fat: 22.8%
% kcal Carbs: 1.9%

Serving size per tin: 75g
kcal/tin (approx): 56

I was thinking of trying this
http://www.happykittycompany.co.uk/coll ... icken-200g

Calories from
Carbs are 4%
Protein 45%
Fat 40%

The fat content worries me though as REMI has chronic pancreatitis, cholangihepatitis and IBD. But then again I don't know if the protein content of thrive is doing him damage. Anyway I know these isn't quite the subject I am meant to be discussing but you'd be surprised how much mental energy searching for a food takes up :lol:
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94

So his +1 is the same as his preshot 94. So perhaps the shed is draining a little now the dose has dropped. I am sort of relieved as I am off out tonight whilst my mum is going to come and sit with him I would rather not have to give her lots of instructions about honey.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94

Trust me, I know! KK had all kinds of fun health issues and feeding him was not an easy thing to do. Well, it was easy, he LOVED food but food didn't love him.

I was thinking that maybe a slightly higher carb food might help (higher than what he is getting, but still low carb). I don't know how to work that with his special diet needs, though. Maybe 8-10%, or since he is currently getting under 2% then maybe switching to that 4% food could be enough. I don't have my links handy on this computer, but there have been good discussions here over the years that lowest carb isn't necessary best for all cats. At one point I had to switch KK to a food that was around 12% (not for his diabetes, but trying to get a handle on other stuff) and his numbers got much better. I did have to increase the insulin dose, but it leveled out his fast drops so I *could* increase the dose. I wouldn't recommend 12%, that's too high unless that's what you have to feed for other reasons. I can even remember one cat that was driving us nuts with his drops and bounces on almost no insulin. He needed insulin, couldn't maintain normal numbers without it, but any teensy weensy dose would send him way too low. For that cat, switching from 0% EVO to 3-4% Wellness was the answer. Eventually he went OTJ once we got the bouncing stopped.

*IF* you can really show that this is a late nadir instead of an early one, then in theory putting a feeding toward the end of the previous cycle might help. If somebody whose cat has a +6 nadir feeds at +3 to cushion the nadir, then somebody whose cat nadirs at +14 might want to feed at +11. Trouble is I'm not sure if this is really a +14 nadir, but filling in some late cycle tests over the weekend could help with that.

Another thought rumbling around in my head (not necessarily in your case, but I've noticed it around the board) is that maybe when you're trying to steer numbers maybe you're not giving enough food at each test. What I mean is that back when Lucy was on insulin, if I saw a low number and wanted to put on the brakes, the usual advice was to give 2 tsp of food and retest (low carb or higher carb, depending on the situation). Now I usually see advice to give a tsp. or less at a time. I don't think a tsp. of food would have worked for any of my cats. On the other hand, Jill's Alex could just look at a piece of no-carb freeze dried chicken and get 10-15 points off of that. Know thy cat, I guess. :lol:

Or, maybe he'll just stay nice and flat on his own from here on out. He was doing it before so we know he can.

Have to get back to work, but maybe something in here will give you some ideas.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94

Thanks Libby. I hadn't even thought about feeding that late in the cycle but it makes sense. As you say if I can get some late readings that may help to pin point the issue.

For tonight I have given 15 g of low carb at +1 and will retest in a minute. Then mum is coming over to cat sit and continue to feed him and so am hoping that he doesn't give me a low reading in a minute.

Will reread over the thread tomorrow and digest it better and tonight I am going to stuff myself stupid on Greek food :-D

Thankyou Libby, Julie and tiff (is it tuff, I am never sure).
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94

Oh oh. It his +2 is 65 .. I see what you mean about more carbs.

I am going to have to put in 2 drops of honey in his food and then leave the same again for mum to give him.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94, +2 65

Libby and Lucy said:
Another thought rumbling around in my head (not necessarily in your case, but I've noticed it around the board) is that maybe when you're trying to steer numbers maybe you're not giving enough food at each test. What I mean is that back when Lucy was on insulin, if I saw a low number and wanted to put on the brakes, the usual advice was to give 2 tsp of food and retest (low carb or higher carb, depending on the situation). Now I usually see advice to give a tsp. or less at a time. I don't think a tsp. of food would have worked for any of my cats. On the other hand, Jill's Alex could just look at a piece of no-carb freeze dried chicken and get 10-15 points off of that. Know thy cat, I guess. :lol:
Click to expand...

Can you say a little more about this, Libby? I've been going by the "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" sticky (quote below) that says "approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy" for dealing with low numbers.

If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only.
(If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
Click to expand...
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94, +2 65

julie & punkin (ga) said:
Can you say a little more about this, Libby? I've been going by the "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" sticky (quote below) that says "approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy" for dealing with low numbers.
Click to expand...
I know where it is stated. Remember, I pre-date that sticky. :lol: That seems to be one of those things that has changed over the years. I've sometimes wondered if that is why there are so many who have trouble bringing their cats out of low numbers and/or never get any sleep because they can't get control of the cycle.

For Lucy I would usually use 2-3 tsp. and sometimes I still had trouble keeping her out of the 30s. ECID but Lucy was a pretty normal diabetic cat.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94, +2 65

Libby and Lucy said:
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Can you say a little more about this, Libby? I've been going by the "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" sticky (quote below) that says "approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy" for dealing with low numbers.
Click to expand...
I know where it is stated. Remember, I pre-date that sticky. :lol: That seems to be one of those things that has changed over the years. I've sometimes wondered if that is why there are so many who have trouble bringing their cats out of low numbers and/or never get any sleep because they can't get control of the cycle.

For Lucy I would usually use 2-3 tsp. and sometimes I still had trouble keeping her out of the 30s. ECID but Lucy was a pretty normal diabetic cat.
Click to expand...

That is interesting that you say that about the larger amount. I definitely give Max more than one teaspoon and when I haven't he didn't come up much like what happened to me the other day. I was feeling like perhaps the reason why he would double his number between +8/pre-shot was because I did that. Maybe he was just trying to get regulated.
 
Re: 11/14 remi +10.30 92, PMPS 94, +1 94, +2 65

Hi everyone

I just got back from my meal and am overly full. As remi seemed to be heading low before i went out I put two drops of honey into this normal bowl of food and he ate that up. Then I left mum with another bowl of wet food and honey and said to put it down after an hour or if he came up to her wanting food. In fact he didn't want any more and he hadn't eaten it by the time we got back so I think that first bowl kept him out of trouble. I just took his + 5.30 79.

I have noticed with remi that he becomes a lot more alert when he runs low and he asks for food. Whilst I wouldn't rely on that I am happy to leave mum for a few hours knowing that more than likely he will want to eat if he is going lower than I want.

Libby I have been thinking about the low vs medium carb during the evening and what you said makes perfect sense (thanks for the link Jill). So I think this will be my job for tomorrow-deciding on what food would be best for remi with regards carb taking into account his other issues. Hopefully a slightly higher carb content will help level him out and may also mean a slightly lower protein content which would drop his urea levels. It's the fat that worries me the most. In fact deciding on remi's new wet food and transitioning him over was the most stressful part of the diabetes diagnosis. I don't relish having to do it again. Libby I think remi is like KK, he loves food but the feeling isn't mutual.

Okay off to bed in a minute but will reread the thread in the morning and the link Jill kindly posted.
 
thanks for the clarification, libby! :-D i know you know about the low numbers sticky ;-) - i just wondered if you were suggesting it needed to be updated, or if you were more talking about other circumstances besides low numbers.

Thanks for letting me hijack to ask questions, Sarah.

Consider also that you can change the carb content of his regular food by adding the honey. If it's a perfect food otherwise, and you're concerned about his IBD flaring if you change to a different food, that might be an option that works for you.
 
An additional comment even though there is a new condo for Remi today.

I've sometimes wondered if that is why there are so many who have trouble bringing their cats out of low numbers and/or never get any sleep because they can't get control of the cycle.
Click to expand...

As said earlier, "know thy cat" and as always, ECID. And to that, I don't necessarily think so many are having trouble with getting control of the cycle because they don't feed enough.

When Gracie is coming down fast or getting low, we always give her at least two tsp of food (and lately we've had to use HC) and it often has very little effect on her. It depends on a lot of variables including where she is in the cycle. She doesn't handle the FF gravies well and I have to be very cautious about how much food she gets because she is a very small kitty. She only needs 110 calories/day to maintain a perfect weight. So if I have to feed extra one cycle, then I have to feed less the next to balance her calories out. Thankfully, this is not an every day thing but since I had to give up the 10% food that worked great for her (because of the fish), it's been difficult to find one that does work with 2-3 tsp even given a couple of times. We do not like giving karo but have had to resort to it until we can find another food that works well for her. Of course, the karo also adds calories she doesn't need :roll:

Others might have the same issues. Some times the feeding times need to be adjusted. And as said, some cats are more carb sensitive than others.
 
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