11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292/+7 204/+9 163/ +10 181

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Tina and Boozle

Tina and Boozle

Member Since 2013
11/13 Late Dosing

Good Morning! Thank you for leaving that explanation for me last night, Julie.

I gave him his shot four hours late yesterday. The two shots he had yesterday were 12 hours apart. So we shoot for lunch to...shoot? ;)

Got to get ready for school. I'll check back before I leave.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432

Hi Tina. I read through your condo from last night.

Just remember that whenever you shoot this morning or this afternoon, that you will need to shoot 12 hours after that.

The two shots you did yesterday, were they 12 hours apart?

Please get a ketone test when you can. How is Frank this morning? Is he eating fine?
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432

Yes Ma'am, they were 12 hours apart.

We started splitting his meals up, as Julie suggested, and he is now eating fine and no vomitus.

Today, I can leave school fifteen minutes early. His shot will be at 11:45pm ( +13.75). According to what Wendy posted last night, his schedule should look like this?

Cycle 1 11:45 (today)
Cycle 2 11:30 (tonight)
Cycle 3 11:15 (Friday afternoon)
Cycle 4 11:00 (Friday Evening)
Cycle 5 10:45 (Saturday Afternoon)
Cycle 6 10:30 (Saturday Evening)
Cycle 7 10:15 (Sunday Morning)
Cycle 8 10:00 (Sunday Evening)
Cycle 9 9:45 (Monday Morning)
Cycle 10 9:30 (Monday Evening)
Cycle 11 9:15 (Tuesday Morning) <- This is where I will run into a problem. I need to shoot at 8:30 or before. I can only be 15 minutes late to class before I get counted absent.

Okay, absolutely have to finish getting ready for school. Will test at 8:30 (+11)and update the SS. I have to leave directly after that though. ~O)

Have a good day everyone!
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432, +11 381

If you can reliably get tests at +10 and +11, it may be possible for you to shoot an hour earlier than your plan. If Frank's numbers are high, this may be possible.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432, +11 381

Tina

You did great yesterday! Sorry I missed out on all the action...my one work day ;-)

The other way to get back on schedule is to skip a shot. However, we do not want to skip shots if Frank is showing any ketones or is high and flat (because he had trace ketones recently, right?). So while there is potential to move his shot time backwards by shooting early when he's high as Sienne suggested (and you can't do that every day), if he throws you a lower number and he's not had any ketones at all for a bit, then you could possibly skip a shot and that would allow you to get back on your regular shot time.

We should play it by ear...any time you can get a +10/+11 test, we could help you decide whether to shoot early or to skip.

I know you are a web developer for forums :-D sometimes, we do a lot of cross posting in a condo and things get lost. I always recommend to new members they when they open their condo, they scroll back to the last post they know they've already read. I still do that in Gracies condo and am amazed at what I might have missed with cross posting.

Have a great day!
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432, +11 381

Hi guys .. glad you got some good advice this morning on how to get back on track .. wonder if Frank will hit up some yellows soon? Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 11/14 Frank +8 331, +9 333, +10 432, +11 381

thanks for clarifying about yesterday's shots. in my head, in one scenario, they were as little as 6 hrs apart! :shock: so i'm very glad to hear they were ok.

I'm glad you got advice from everyone this morning on how we move forward. let's see how he is when he gets his am shot today at lunchtime.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354

I have to go back to school so I only had time to skim... he did get his insulin at 11:45 (+13.75). I haven't been here to test ketones, but I will be home by 3:45 to get a +4 and will be here and available for the next four days. So a +10 & +11 is no problem.

Back to school! Thank you, ladies, and I will see you in a little while!
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354

just to confirm so i have the scenario right - he just got a shot at 11:45am and ideally, you'ld like his shot time to be at 6:30 - is that right?

We're trying to figure out the best options for getting him back on schedule.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354

if the times Julie mentioned are right and you're looking to move your shot time by about 6 hours, then what I would do (if no ketones) is just make one of the shots at +18. In other words, you shot at 11:45 today, skip tonight and shoot at about 6 in the morning. That would be +18 after this morning's shot. Sure, it will affect the depot a little bit, but at least you get it all over with at once and can get on with things.

I skimmed through the last couple of threads and wanted to take a minute to explain where the low numbers came from (because I bet you will see them again soon). Lantus is a depot insulin, which basically means that it has a cumulative action. When a cat starts out on Lantus, our protocol says to hold the initial dose for 5-7 days. That is about how long we have found that it takes for the insulin depot to form, so that is about as early as we will be able to tell whether the starting dose is going to do anything for that cat. Most cats end up needing dose increases right away. In your case, on Day 4, Frank's depot was filled and the insulin started to work. He got green on 1u, that's great! Now we just need to wait for the dust to settle, for the impact from the delayed shot and the bounce to clear out, and see if he can get back to green again.

There is more information on the insulin depot in the sticky: What is the Insulin Depot?
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292

That is correct. He got insulin at 11:45am and I need to get him back to getting it at 6:30am. If we do it slow, I need him to get to 8:30am by Tuesday, which gives me tonight then four days to work it out. Then, slowly working back the schedule from 8:30 to 6:30 will be no problem.

I've noticed that he is becoming more responsive. We thought he might be deaf when he first came here because he did not respond to sounds. Now he looks this way when we talk in "kitty" voice.

Peter- Sorry for just saying hi to the ladies this afternoon. I didn't see you. You sneaked in on me!
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292

heehee that's Devon. She and Peter both posted when Mocha was on insulin, but she's an angel who keeps coming by to encourage people. so you covered her too, when you said hi to the ladies!

yay to seeing that yellow pop up today! it's barely yellow, but it counts.

so let's see if we can lay out some choices with pros/cons for you. The options include

trying to work backwards - but 5.75 hrs is a lotta backwards and you can't do it too fast. You have the schedule idea already on how that might look, and i know you still come up short on tuesday morning.

or you can go forwards - you're already nearly half way to the next shot time, as Libby suggested. That's essentially what Marje is suggesting too, when she says skipping a shot.

this could happen all at once or spread out - so either he has one long cycle of 18 hrs, knowing the insulin peters out around 12ish hrs or shortly after in most cats. or some combination of longer-than-12-hr cycles.

every time the shot time is off you risk messing with the depot or shed. if you shoot early its like getting a slight increase. that can work if he is high and you're around to monitor him. so the risk of shooting early is the cat might go low because of too much insulin. if you shoot late, it's like a little bit of a missed shot, so he gets a little bit less than he would if the shots were on time. the risk there is the cat is high from not-enough insulin. all of us have missed shots because of various things - sometimes the needle goes all the way through or it pulls out while you're shooting and some insulin leaks. we call that a "fur shot" and never reshoot. better not enough than too much.

we're all a little cautious about skipping the shot, though, mainly because you had that trace of ketones earlier. we want enough insulin in there to not develop ketones!

it's a little bit of a crazy schedule right now, since you're going to be shooting at almost midnight tonight.

if he were my cat, i'd probably move it later, either over 2 days or all at once. i might be inclined to go all at once in this case, just to avoid confusion about what time you're shooting, and to get it done with so he can settle in and hopefully get back on track. If you decide to slide it forward, your schedule might look like
thurs shoot 11:45am, the Friday 6:30am (18.75 hr cycle) (done with all at once)
(or same idea but delay one day)

then you would stay with shot time at 6:30am.

or if you wanted to do it in 2 increments, it would look like

thurs shoot 11:45am, Friday 3:30am (15.75 hr cycle)
Friday 3:30pm, Saturday 6:30am (15 hr cycle)

or Thurs shoot 11:45am to Thursday shoot 11:45pm (12hr cycle)
and then delay from thursday night til Friday afternoon (15.75hr cycle)
Friday shoot 3:30pm, Saturday 6:30am (15hr cycle) (this option keeps you from having to shoot during the night)

So there's some thinking on the pros and cons of each. Do you have questions? Does one of these options seem the most do-able to you, given your life and schedule?
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292

oh yeah - and WOO-HOO on him hearing and being more responsive!

i'm just saying i hope my math on the times was correct. it gives you the idea, at least - you can double check the numbers.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292

He seems to float better through the night than he does during the day. If he seems to be floating in the pink, as he usually does, I think I might just do it all at once. He's used to running HI >600 from late afternoon until early morning and he was still making progress. Being in the pink and low to mid reds is a major improvement on where we were. And... if this round of cycles is already thrown off, might as well start fresh. That is my assessment based on my superficial knowledge of the situation, anyway. We are negative on ketones, as well. Does this sound like a rational line of thinking or is there something I am missing?

I don't think I have any other questions. I am still in that space where I am not sure that I know the questions to ask.

The fun thing about all of this is going to Spring semester. I have morning and evening classes. I'll be 5am and 5pm or noon and midnight. lol
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292/+7 204

hehe we all understand that place. that's why we all volunteer and try to tell you what you need to know.

sounds like a plan. i'm liking that he's down to 204 now - that's super. he's getting there.

one thing you learn with a diabetic cat is to take each day one at a time. we'll help you figure out spring semester when it gets there. it's amazing how you can rearrange your life around your diabetic cat's needs! :lol: other people think we're crazy, but those of us here all get it. ;-)
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292

julie & punkin (ga) said:
we're all a little cautious about skipping the shot, though, mainly because you had that trace of ketones earlier. we want enough insulin in there to not develop ketones!
Click to expand...
Not me. I'm not concerned about the 18 hour cycle, as long as you have a negative ketone test. For sure that's what I would do for my own cats. I see that you got a negative ketone test, so go for it! If you had seen ketones, I would have just suggested waiting until another day to make the switch.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292/+7 204/+9 163

He's actually at 163 now. Maybe we will see him go in the green again. Now I am wondering...

If he goes below 150, since at this point, I shouldn't shoot below that, would it be better to stay up tonight and see how long it takes him to hit 150 and rise, then possibly shoot if it can push that schedule forward enough to make a difference? Last time, it took him two hours past his normal shot time to get over 150. I know nothing can predict that he will do the same thing, but two hours forward means a three hour gap to close in four days. I can get up at 4:45am easier than I can get time out of school in the middle of the day.
 
Re: 11/14 Frank AMPS 354/+4 292/+7 204/+9 163

If he gives you a number around 150 that you are concerned about shooting, I'd take the opportunity to skip, get a good before bed test, get a good nights rest, and shoot at your normal time in the morning. Then you are back on schedule :-D
 
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