11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269, +11/321, PMPS 342, +1/333

Status
Not open for further replies.

KPassa

Member Since 2012
And my responses to my previous condo as well as my first post so I don't end up with three threads going at once. :lol:

Thanks everyone for all this great info! For his AMPS, I've begun giving him a bite to eat first thing and then testing, then giving him the remainder of his breakfast with his insulin shot. That seems to be working a little bit better for us. I still have an angry, huffy, sometimes growling kitty, but at least he's no longer crying or squirming. I can test him any time later (even just an hour) and he's sitting in my lap, purring. I guess he's just not a morning cat and needs his ~O)

On Friday, we had our first vet visit since I started home testing and I was a bit trepidatious as to what the vet might say. It turns out he was scared that I had gone off my own and started looking up "cures" on the internet or something. But when he saw a copy of my spreadsheet with all of Mikey's numbers, he was so pleased that he said that we don't even need to continue doing the bi-weekly follow-up for regulation since I was doing a pretty good job of it myself already. He also took the copy of the spreadsheet for himself and made a few notes on it, saying that this was the first time he'd seen anything so efficient. Then he gave me his email address and asked me to email him the link to Mikey's spreadsheet as well as any other links I've found. My vet has come through for me again and has proven it's been more of a lack of information rather than willful ignorance on their part! :mrgreen:

As mentioned in previous posts, I've been having a really hard time gauging how much food I should give him. There's conflicting information regarding the proper feeding amount for diabetic cats, having set meals vs. free feeding, if set meals then how many per day, etc... and on top of it all, those recommendations are for adult cats! It seems I'm a pioneer on this with kittens. :? So, last Thursday, I once again adjusted his food consumption by increasing it back up to where a kitten should be and allowing him to free feed instead of trying to modify it for a "diabetic" kitten and/or regulate it to X number of set meal times. But, I'm already starting to see again what I had seen before when he was first diagnosed and the vet recommended decreasing his food amount until he stabilized on the insulin: a bloated little belly and a tendency to overeat. It's also worth mentioning that at the vet visit, Mikey had gained an entire pound (now up to 5.5) when he'd been stuck at 4.5 since the beginning of September up until I had weighed him last week. Hopefully that weight was him growing up into a big boy and not growing out into a fat cat. ;-)

I also lowered him to .75u last Monday (not smart to change two things around the same time, I know). Since then, his numbers seem to have stabilized (no more super highs and super lows), but it's still consistently over 220. I'd like to get more +4 through +9 AM readings because that's always been where he's dipped super low and I only have 1 day's worth of that data since the food/unit change. I'm working from home tomorrow, so it's easier to test him more consistently throughout the day that way. Does it look like I should I raise him back up to 1u or should I wait a few days longer to establish more of a pattern on the .75u dose with the increased food amount?
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

What a great vet! I'd not only give him the link to your SS but also the link to the Lantus board and point him to the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board. The dosing protocols we use, info on how to keep your cat safe, etc. are all there for your vet to review.

I do think Mikey needs a bit more insulin. The 0.75u is keeping him mostly above 200. Do you think you can measure what we would call a "fat" 0.75u? In other words, it would be a drop more than what you're currently shooting but less than 1.0u.

As for food and big kitten bellies, when my non-FD kitten was younger, he'd go through growth spurts. He'd have a belly and then a couple of days later, he wouldn't and would seem to have gotten bigger over night.
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

Hello there, good news that he is putting on weight.. means the insulin is helping him process his food!

Do I understand right - you reduced his dose because you increased his food? Not sure I understand the logic there but the problem now is that he is yellow and pink which is above where a normal cat should be - we are aiming to get him blue ....and hopefully green... all the time.

The reason he was bouncing before is that you were bringing him into more normal blue numbers with the insulin. But his liver panicked when it saw the drop into blue as its no longer used to being in the normal range. It started shooting out glucose to compensate - this effect can last for up to 48hours after what the liver perceives as a low. Note that this is the liver reacting.. its not an actual low or a hypo.. just lower than the liver has gotten used to recently! And we want to train the liver that blues and greens are ok.

Most cats seem to bounce like this until the liver stops panicking and realizes that blues and greens are ok and then OTJ can follow. Bouncing can happen for quite a while.

I would put him back to 1IU.
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

Sienne and Gabby said:
What a great vet! I'd not only give him the link to your SS but also the link to the Lantus board and point him to the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board. The dosing protocols we use, info on how to keep your cat safe, etc. are all there for your vet to review.

Yes, I'm definitely planning on giving my vet every single link I've encountered these last few weeks (including here). I was so thrilled that he was open to everything I had been doing and I hope I'll soon have converted him to recommending home testing and wet food for all his diabetic patients :smile:

Wendy&Tiggy said:
Do I understand right - you reduced his dose because you increased his food? Not sure I understand the logic there but the problem now is that he is yellow and pink which is above where a normal cat should be - we are aiming to get him blue ....and hopefully green... all the time.

I lowered his dose last Monday to .75 because he was getting super low numbers during the day, then would rebound in the evenings to 300s and then back down the next day to even lower numbers than the day before. Then, last Thursday, I switched his feeding up again from measured and fixed meals spaced out about every hour or so to as "free" feeding as possible. So, between Monday and Thursday last week, he was being fed the same amount as he had been the week before, however on .75u instead of 1u. Since Thursday, when I changed to "free" feeding, his numbers have seemed to be going much higher (see Friday's partial curve test). So, that is why I was wondering if I needed to increase his insulin dose back up to 1u since I had increased his food consumption after decreasing his insulin dose to .75u or if I should wait a little longer till I get more data.

What I mean by free feeding: when I'm at work, I leave a can of wet food and one or two frozen Nature's Variety medallions out so by the time they defrost, he'll have finished the remainder of his wet food...if he didn't already eat it (he's never had a lack of appetite). I'm also pretty much ignoring the recommended serving size/calorie count on his food since even giving him the "double for kittens" amount doesn't seem to satiate him.

I say "pretty much" because Mikey seems to want to just eat and eat and eat. For example, yesterday, he went through one 3 oz can of FF, one 5.5 oz can of Nature's Variety and one frozen medallion. (I'd feed him only EVO or Nature's Variety if I could afford it exclusively, but I can't so I supplement his FF diet with it instead.) Then, last night, I opened a 5.5 oz can of EVO and gave him the whole thing to see if he had a "shut-off switch." He finished it off in about 10 minutes and still was looking around for more! When it was time for bed, I gave him his "overnight" 3 oz can of FF and he polished the entire thing off as well! This is also what I think is making it so difficult for me to do the AMPS in the morning since he finishes off his "night meal" the second I lay it out for him (around midnight, usually) and has nothing else to eat till 7 am the next morning.

Note: I don't generally feed him as much as I did yesterday (>600 calories!) and try to stay relatively close to the "double" amount for kittens that all the packaging recommends based on overall calorie count for the the day. Feeding him 3 different kinds of cat food plus 3 different types of his BG testing freeze-dried treats is a mathematical nightmare for counting calories, not to mention having to double the amount shown! I had to create a separate spreadsheet just to keep track of that! Yesterday was more of an experiment to see if he could free feed responsibly while I'm at work or sleeping. Answer: probably not yet. :roll:
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

One thing to consider is a timed feeder. This will prevent Mikey from gobbling everything up all at once. Some people will use a 5-compartment feeder whereas I use a 2-compartment feeder. Mikey may be inhaling food because he's not yet regulated. Most cats, until regulated, will eat like crazy. Because the food isn't getting into their cells, they are hungry all the time. Hopefully, his appetite will decrease once his numbers are a bit lower.

I sent a PM to another member here who breeds Abyssinians. She probably knows more about kitten behavior than most vets. Hopefully, she'll see my note and stop by. Lisa may be able to offer some insight into feeding a kitten.

As far as dose, we base dose decisions on what the numbers tell us. Unless a cat is totally refusing food, other than the carb content, food doesn't enter into the decision about whether to increase or decrease dose. At this point, you're seeing nadirs that are consistently above 200. If following the Tight Regulation Protocol, that would indicated an increase of 0.25u. However, given that the dose of 1.0u dropped Mikey's numbers into the 40s, I'd consider "fattening" the 0.75u dose by adding a drop. The other consideration is that you've got a diabetic kitten. Kittens may may metabolize insulin differently due to their size and age. I'd want to see how Mikey does with a small increase.
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269, +11/321, PMPS 342

Sienne and Gabby said:
Do you think you can measure what we would call a "fat" 0.75u? In other words, it would be a drop more than what you're currently shooting but less than 1.0u.

For monetary reasons, I'm still trying to use up the rest of my 1u syringes (50 more to go) so I've been having to eyeball .75u already. (I measured out a few times what I thought was .75u till I was able to consistently actually draw .75u). On his PMS, I've gone ahead and "eyeballed" it up to ~87.5u this time. That way I know I'm not jumping the gun too fast by bringing him back up to 1u. Start low, go slow, right? :-D

Sienne and Gabby said:
One thing to consider is a timed feeder.

That's the whole reason I did the experiment yesterday and I actually just bought a two-compartment feeder on the way home from work today! :lol: I was planning on using the frozen NV medallions in it, but can I also use canned food? Should I freeze it first, too?
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

I use canned food and add water to the food to keep it fresh. You can always make "catsickles" -- adding water to canned food so it's soupy and then freezing it in ice cube trays. I always add water to my guys food. Diabetes is tough on the kidneys and water keeps the kidneys working in a good way.
 
Re: 11/12 Michelangelo AMPS 269

Although my Tobey was and is not diabetic, when he was a baby, the vets said to let him eat as much as he wanted. He'd eat and then go into a food coma :lol: :lol: he eventually slowed down on the eating but when he hit 10 lbs at around 11 mos, I started controlling his calories.

You might want to see about getting some digital calipers to help with the microdosing. Many of us use them...it helps with consistency and also dialing in small doses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top