11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet...

[evakot]

Yesterday's condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28883

Good Morning LL,

Thank goodness, Big Kitty has dropped to his more normal numbers from his outrageous 471 (or 446 if the second test is to be believed) during the night. I decided to hold the 3.75 for one more cycle, to hopefully settle things down. Also- did not give Xobaline this morning in case the fructose in it didn't sit well with BK.

I am to drop off Big K's numbers at his vet today. I am bracing myself for the discussion why I didn't hold a dose for 7-10 days as she advised. Luckily, I have the article about Lantus protocol that I will be dropping off as well. My hope is to convince the vet to get the Acro/ IAA testing done...

Good Wednesday to All,

Eva

ETA: Wow, so the conversation with the vet went horrible at first. She almost dropped me as her client! She called back and said she read the article about Lantus protocol and looked at my spreadsheet and she realized that she will not be able to help me with my cat's care anymore! She stated that she doesn't know this protocol ("that's not what I was taught in school"), in fact works with Lantus very rarely, she doesn't have a dental X-ray machine, and she wouldn't have an ability to interpret the Acro/IAA testing. She was trying to "refer" me (read: get rid of me)to an internist vet, over an hour away from here. I figured she was mad about me not following her instructions and saw me as a potential liability. So, I started saying things to appease her about how much I trusted her and felt we could work together and get my cat better. After a while of going back and forward she finally started sounding like she is not as decisive about dropping me. At the end, she agreed that SHE WILL CALL THE SPECIALIST to inquire about what might be going on with Big Kitty's lack of response to insulin. I am also to bring Big Kitty in on Monday for sterile urine collection, cause she said that urine culture is the first thing the specialist will ask her about. I committed to look up how to send the blood samples to Univ of Michigan. PLEASE, IF SOMEONE COULD SEND ME THE LINK TO THAT INFO I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT.

OMG- crisis averted for now... @-) But the conversation was SUPER unpleasant and stressful at first...

 

[PeterDevonMocha]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364

Morning guys! Glad to see that big kitty dropped down off that red floor! I hope you can convince your vet to get you the tests you want done ... have a great day guys!!

 

[Michelle and Mannie (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364

Morning! Very nice to see Big Kitty with lower numbers. so much better than the red... I hoe that a great day is about to unfold.

Good luck with your vet. I hope that they are receptive to the information you bring them.

 

[Lisa and Do Lou (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364

Happy Big Kitty is off the red floor now he just needs to move off the pink floor come on down Big Kitty you can do it cat_pet_icon

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364

Morning! Very nice to see Big Kitty with lower numbers. so much better than the red... I hoe that a great day is about to unfold.

Good luck with your vet. I hope that they are receptive to the information you bring them.

She wasn't too receptive, that is for sure... :lol: Please see the addition to the first post...

 

[Karrie and Maverick]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Thank you for sharing your experience. I posted this week about my cats vet and her way of talking to me when I dropped his insulin on dose 2. I was so upset. I am working on being more assertive but dealing with vets has been negative for me for some reason. And I fear confrontation. So hearing stories like yours will give people like me a boost of encouragement that vets can be reasonable I'm hoping my vet will turn around - she is so good with Maverick. So I need to work on my communication skills. I want to present her with the dosing protocol and will pick a time in the future to do so, once a relationship on trust is developed. Just want to say good for you and good luck with getting things working for your Kitty.

 

[Cyn and Cosmo]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Umm. You're looking for MSU (michigan state university) not Univ of Michigan, I believe.

Here's info about acro, and about a third of the way down, a link to MSU's site.

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Thank you for sharing your experience. Just want to say good for you and good luck with getting things working for your Kitty.

Well, actually....I was happy that things worked out prematurely!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She just called me back about 2 hours after our initial conversation and said that uncharacteristically she heard back from the "specialist" right away! (That is the guy she was going to send me to, 2 hour drive round trip- at least I am glad I know of his practices ahead of time, so I won't be wasting my time driving to see him!) Here is what she said he suggested:

1. That so far there is no reason to suggest Big Kitty is insulin resistant (that I actually hear with relief)

2. That I should not bother with increasing the doses in increments less than 1 unit, because "there are no cats out there in the world who are unregulated on 3 units but regulated on 3.5"

3. That I should not be testing my cat as often as I am, because that is just stressing him out and making me anxious about his progress

4. That the Acro/IAA tests are "not exact science" and I could get a positive result that would send me on a "wrong path" but ultimately be a false positve

5. That I should hold each dose for 5 days and then increase by 1 unit

6. That my cat needs to lose weight so it would be better for him to go on the prescription low fat/high protein diet

So much for progress. My vet, of course, entirely agreed with the "specialist."

I still need to have a relationship with her tough, I may need her, especially if Big Kitty ever has DKA or a hypo. HOW DO YOU GUYS MAINTAIN A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH A VET WHO DOESN"T WANT TO FOLLOW LANTUS PROTOCOL??? Do you keep separate spreadhseets..? Do you just not show them the spreadsheet? Unfortunately, I know I won't be able to find a better vet here in town. I've tried 2 before- they wouldn't even agree to prescribe Lantus, she is the only one who does. How should I approach this?

E

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Umm. You're looking for MSU (michigan state university) not Univ of Michigan, I believe.

Here's info about acro, and about a third of the way down, a link to MSU's site.

Sorry, yes, I misspoke. Thank you for the info- sadly, it looks like I won't be needing it right now- she just called and took back her offer to do the testing...

 

[jan and Hep and sara (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

E,

Is there another vet in your area that might be more experienced with FD or at least work with you on this. If there is I'd do some calling and ask them how they feel on some of these things. You're paying for these tests. So why should it be a problem to them?

Good luck. I know it can be stressful. Thank goodness for FD.

jan and sara

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

E,

Is there another vet in your area that might be more experienced with FD or at least work with you on this. If there is I'd do some calling and ask them how they feel on some of these things. You're paying for these tests. So why should it be a problem to them?

More experienced vet- not from what I have gathered so far, and I did call around when I was trying to get him on Latus. Seems like most vets here in town observe the "old school" protocol- Humulin N, vet curves, prescription diet.

She is the only one who agreed to prescribe Lantus and is OK (more or less) with home testing. Except she thinks I am testing too much....

As far as the tests- I may be able to bring it back up later, if Big Kitty doesn't improve on higher doses. For now she and the so-called "specialist" believe it's premature...

Oh how I wish people would put their egos aside and just do what's best for the cat and the cat owner!!!!

 

[Kim 'n Shadow]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

OMG - the "specialist" - yikes!

Wow, you are really up a creek! Can you just use her for shots and Rx's? You aren't the first person to be told they were abusing their cat, tho, somebody else ran into a similar deal. Still, you gotta have a vet. I'm going to be interested to see what sort of advice you get about this.

 

[OptOut]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Ugh....it's like deja-vu reading your thread. My old vet must have gone to the same school as yours!

I used to go to one of the most respected vets in the entire Dallas-Fort Worth area. However, she didn't like me following the German TR protocol, she didn't think I should use a human glucometer, she didn't like me getting dosing advice from the Internet...the final blow came when I asked her to draw blood for the IGF-1 and IAA tests and she wanted to "refer me to a specialist". I changed vets after a few questions confirmed that the specialist didn't know any more than my vet about diabetes.

If you can't change vets, maybe ask another vet in town to just draw and spin the blood for you. Call MSU and ask if you can mail the samples yourself (it would be cheaper anyway). Your vet is very wrong on a whole bunch of things, but I'll only address the IGF-1 results.
1. Your vet doesn't need to know jack about the interpretation. If Big Kitty is above the threshold, he needs to be treated like an acro.While the only true confirmation of acro is a very expensive CT scan, the leading acro-vet in the US feels confident enough about the IGF-1 results, along with documented insulin resistance, that she will irradiate pituitary glands - EVEN IF THE CT SCAN DOESN'T FIND A TUMOR...that sounds pretty positive to me.
2. There's no wrong path to go down on IGF-1 and IAA...if kitty appears to be positive, you give them more insulin. Period. There are only 3 treatments for acro (besides controlling the effects), and none of them have been used extensively (i.e. SRT is on cat 15, pituitary surgery is very rare for cats, and there is a 6-cat drug trial trying to get off the ground);

PS - I did give my old, bad vet a doctored spreadsheet right before I dropped her.
PPS - Doctored ss work really well when they want you to hold for at least a week and increase by a full unit. You can increase by an appropriate amount every 2-5 days and then just doctor the dose on the fake ss.

 

[Kim 'n Shadow]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

hmm - cooking the books. your secret is safe with us. :smile:

 

[Michelle and Mannie (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

omg! this is so infuriating. VETS!!!!

I so agree with what was written by Boo - been there, done that.
1 - on the increments of increase limited to one unit only - ridiculous - all here have shown that even drop increases can mean number changes for kitties. In some case one unit increase could be detrimental for some cats, possible even overdose.
2- on testing - my vet told me the same thing. You cannot properly track progress without testing. one is then shooting blind - bad bad bad! I ignored my vet, and test as much as I want.
3- so many of those prescription foods are loaded with fillers and by-products that are not healthy for our kitties. my vet told me the same thing. I have ignored her on this too. once i went off the prescription foods I had better BG readings.
4- the questions on acro I cannot answer - as we have not had to go down that road.

I personally try to maintain a good relationship with my vet. I do like her, but have found her not to be totally informed on lantus, how it works, and how to get my kitty better regulated or even otj I simply do not address alot of these FD issues with them. Over time she has become more receptive, especially after seeing his SS. I took that to them when I could prove how well he was doing by following the protocol here. I wish you luck. I have put my faith when dealing with Mannie's FD with this board. These folks here know what they are doing.

 

[Lisa and Do Lou (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Thank you for sharing your experience. Just want to say good for you and good luck with getting things working for your Kitty.

Well, actually....I was happy that things worked out prematurely!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She just called me back about 2 hours after our initial conversation and said that uncharacteristically she heard back from the "specialist" right away! (That is the guy she was going to send me to, 2 hour drive round trip- at least I am glad I know of his practices ahead of time, so I won't be wasting my time driving to see him!) Here is what she said he suggested:

1. That so far there is no reason to suggest Big Kitty is insulin resistant (that I actually hear with relief)

2. That I should not bother with increasing the doses in increments less than 1 unit, because "there are no cats out there in the world who are unregulated on 3 units but regulated on 3.5"

3. That I should not be testing my cat as often as I am, because that is just stressing him out and making me anxious about his progress

4. That the Acro/IAA tests are "not exact science" and I could get a positive result that would send me on a "wrong path" but ultimately be a false positve

5. That I should hold each dose for 5 days and then increase by 1 unit




E

6. That my cat needs to lose weight so it would be better for him to go on the prescription low fat/high protein diet

So much for progress. My vet, of course, entirely agreed with the "specialist."

I still need to have a relationship with her tough, I may need her, especially if Big Kitty ever has DKA or a hypo. HOW DO YOU GUYS MAINTAIN A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH A VET WHO DOESN"T WANT TO FOLLOW LANTUS PROTOCOL??? Do you keep separate spreadhseets..? Do you just not show them the spreadsheet? Unfortunately, I know I won't be able to find a better vet here in town. I've tried 2 before- they wouldn't even agree to prescribe Lantus, she is the only one who does. How should I approach this?












Wow this is such a familiar conversation I am hearing for you see I am a vet tech who work for vets who think like your vet does, I am lucky that I finally had to just tell Do Lou's vet that this is how I am going to treat his FD and that was that I work for wonderful vets but so very behind the times in FD treatment and we do not use lantus where I work I also got the lecture of so much testing is really stressing him out and how I should only do fasting BG's and they do not believe in dose increases in small amounts either when Do Lou's vet asks me about how he is doing with this FD which is always does and if I say he is on a fat dose he is like what on earth is that so vets can be so frustrating and I have worked with these vets for 16 yrs. So just do what you know is best for Big Kitty you have this board which to me knows way way way more about treating FD then most vets.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

My vet tells me I test too much, as well. I laugh and say words to the effect, "It's my cat." The reality, though, is that Gabby is my cat. I know her and how she responds to Lantus better than my vet does because I live with Gabby and I have documentation regarding her response to Lantus. I also believe in empirical evidence. I can read the scientific literature and make an informed decision and if I don't understand a piece of that literature, I have resources that can help me. There are clinical trials supporting the effectiveness of Lantus. Rather than wait for my vet to research a question I've asked, I've picked up the phone and called the vet school in my region. I don't need my vet to help me manage Gabby's diabetes. At this point, my vet recognizes that I can manage Gabby's dosing at least as well as she can. Gabby gets way more stressed at the vet than my be poking her in the ear! Based on what the vet's telling you, I shouldn't bring my cat to the vet.

Shortly after Gabby was first diagnosed, some friends came for a visit. One of my oldest and dearest friends is an MD/PhD -- he's really, really smart. We were talking about FD. He made the observation that any individual, whether they are a medical professional or not, can become an expert in one illness. We can have more expertise than the vet we're working with because that vet has to have a working knowledge of a broad range of illnesses and in many cases, across a wide range of species. Because we are living with our cat's diabetes and want to know more about it, we each develop our own level of expertise. We may need a vet to help with other illnesses or how FD interacts with certain other of our cat's systems but we don't need them to assist with dosing. (And you can "forget" your SS at home.)

I do give my vet the link to Gabby's SS. I'm fortunate in that my vet and her group practice are very committed to continuing education. They don't believe in using Humulin N with cats. The internal med vet that cared for Gabby when she was on a critical care unit started her on N and when it wasn't working, I raised the issue of Lantus with my vet and she was supportive. I gave her the Rand protocol and a few journal articles. It's what we decided to use. We can get you the journal articles. If you approach your vet from the perspective of this seems to be the direction that the field is heading and would she be willing to learn with you, maybe you can make some headway.

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

I personally try to maintain a good relationship with my vet. I do like her, but have found her not to be totally informed on lantus, how it works, and how to get my kitty better regulated or even otj I simply do not address alot of these FD issues with them. Over time she has become more receptive, especially after seeing his SS. I took that to them when I could prove how well he was doing by following the protocol here.

Yes, I think being able to show "the proof" in good numbers is a key to convincing the vet. However, my cat so far has not made much progress, which I think made it sooooo much harder to convince her that what she "has learned at school" might not be relevant anymore. She even said to me: "why reinvent the wheel? I had used Humulin-N successfully and that is what we use here."

What a pain...

 

[Michelle and Mannie (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

oh yeah - I hear ya. It took us a while to have an SS that proved anything. For now - as Sienne said - "forget" the SS at home. I personally think she is your cat, you know her best, and can tell better than anyone what she needs. All that Sienne wrote is truly on target. Good luck - and stick to your guns!

 

[Lori in Ohio]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

I had 2 different vets at different offices.
One was a holistic Vet, which I could not always reach right away, so I also had a regular vet where I could get ahold of a person rather than a voice mail.

Neither of them knew much about Lantus and admitted that to me.
I showed the holistic vet the Lantus protocol and told her that is what I was following.

She did not like how long it was taking for my cats numbers to get lower, so had suggested I switch to ProZinc, since she had good results with it and knew more about it.
I said, "Give me until next week to see if I can get her numbers lower, I am going to start a more progressive dosing protocol"
She said "ok"
I never got a chance to switch tho. Gingers numbers got even higher that weekend, I rushed her to the ER, and ended up having to have her put to sleep.
(She ended up having alot more wrong with her than just diabetes)

My point of all this is: Many vets will work with you, even if they don't agree with you.

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Shortly after Gabby was first diagnosed, some friends came for a visit. One of my oldest and dearest friends is an MD/PhD -- he's really, really smart. We were talking about FD. He made the observation that any individual, whether they are a medical professional or not, can become an expert in one illness. We can have more expertise than the vet we're working with because that vet has to have a working knowledge of a broad range of illnesses and in many cases, across a wide range of species. Because we are living with our cat's diabetes and want to know more about it, we each develop our own level of expertise. We may need a vet to help with other illnesses or how FD interacts with certain other of our cat's systems but we don't need them to assist with dosing. (And you can "forget" your SS at home.)

I agree on developing expertise in FD treatment and am willing to learn to manage it on my own, with the great support of the people on this forum who have been doing this much longer than I and my vet combined. With that being said, I do need a vet to run tests for me, examine my cat,etc., and when I am needing to get him tested as a part of management of his diabetes she is going to ask to see his numbers and will ask about the dosing. That is when it gets complicated... :cry:

I was hopeful that giving her the article with the Lantus study will help. She did read it (I was almost surprised) because she quoted parts of it, but her approach was along the lines of: "if this is what you are wanting to do, I am not going to take the responsibility for you and your cat."

I wish I could just ditch her and go to a different vet, but as I said, the choices are worse than she is.

What I can start doing though is not show her my spreadsheet again, just not sure if that would fly now that she knows I am testing him religiously...But, maybe she would actually be pleased with me if I said: "I took your advice and decided not to test anymore"- huh, huh, huh!!! Maybe that would be the much-needed ego booster! :lol:

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

My point of all this is: Many vets will work with you, even if they don't agree with you.

I thought she was that vet, until today. Afterall, she agreed to prescribe Lantus, she didn't try to force me to change his diet (until she heard from the "specialist" today ) and she was OK not doing office-curves. That is waaaaay more than the other 2 vets I tried would even consider.

I think what got her miffed is that I didn't do as she said on holding the dose. I think she was not only offended by me disregarding her orders but also felt that I am an "unsafe" client, who is ultimately going to be a burden and possibly get her in trouble somehow. You know, the "classical" medical model is that the doctor is the expert, the patient needs to oblige. I do not think medical field has woken up from this perception yet. They rarely value patient initiative or wisdom (of course, it's a gross generalization here).

 

[Jenny and Sue]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

I will tell you what I did.

I started going to a new vet in June and fell in love with him. He was so much better than my last vet. THEN, Sue got diagnosed with diabetes. The vet put him on PZI. He prescribed DRY Royal Canin DS. I tried that for 11 days (called him daily to check on numbers). The numbers were usually between 350-574!! He said don't worry about it. I did my own research and came upon Dr. Pierson's site. Started consulting with her, changed the diet, called my vet and told him that I wanted Sue to be on Lantus. He said okay, but I know he didn't like it.

A couple days later, I started looking for a new vet. I started with recommendations from friends and would call each vet and I was really honest and said that I was looking for someone who specialized in feline diabetes. I ended up finding a very nice vet who primarily sees felines (and small dogs <20 lbs). I sort of gave her a quiz on the phone..."What food would you recommend? What insulin would you use? Have you heard of Dr. Pierson?" She answered all of my questions with just what I wanted to hear. I let her know that I am also consulting with Dr. Pierson and asked if she was okay with that. She was and she knows Dr. Pierson's work.

Things are working out very well. I got copies of my cat's blood work from the previous vet to share with the new vet.

Are there other vets in your area who could help?

 

[OptOut]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

If you want to give vetty-bean a Christmas present (strictly as a good will gesture and by the way, how about learning something...), you might get her an acro-calendar.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28962

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

I was hopeful that giving her the article with the Lantus study will help. She did read it (I was almost surprised) because she quoted parts of it, but her approach was along the lines of: "if this is what you are wanting to do, I am not going to take the responsibility for you and your cat."

That's the issue. You're not asking her to take responsibility for you or your cat. For a vet (or a physician) to take responsibility or tell you what to do is not respecting your ability to make decisions. It is the professional's responsibility to provide you with sufficient unbiased information to provide an informed consent. YOU are responsible for the decision. If the vet does not provide you with accurate information, deliberately misleads you, is not up to date on current practices, makes a stupid error, etc., it's malpractice.

You need to put on your professional hat and deal with the vet as one professional to another.

 

[Carrie & Trouble]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your vet :cry: Unfortunately, my vet isn't open to home testing and wants me to feed a strict dry food diet. I used to turn in "doctored" spreadsheets to her because she wanted me to quit giving insulin as soon as Trouble hit 200. I slowly started giving the vet spreadsheets less and less frequently and now only call to get a prescription called in to the pharmacy. I just say "oh yeah the numbers are really high." I am usually at the pharmacy when I call so they don't try to get me to bring him in for a visit. Sounds bad, but I put Trouble's care in the hands of the people on this board. Good luck keeping a working relationship with your vet. It's a tight rope to walk most days!

 

[evakot]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

I will tell you what I did.
A couple days later, I started looking for a new vet. I started with recommendations from friends and would call each vet and I was really honest and said that I was looking for someone who specialized in feline diabetes. I ended up finding a very nice vet who primarily sees felines (and small dogs <20 lbs). I sort of gave her a quiz on the phone..."What food would you recommend? What insulin would you use? Have you heard of Dr. Pierson?" She answered all of my questions with just what I wanted to hear. I let her know that I am also consulting with Dr. Pierson and asked if she was okay with that. She was and she knows Dr. Pierson's work.
Things are working out very well.

That is the beauty of living in a big city. You had lots of choices. There are NO feline specialists here and I would fall off my chair if someone here would have heard about Dr. Pierson. I will just have to work with who is practicing around here and try to do my best to educate them/work with them. It ain't easy...

 

[Jenny and Sue]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

That stinks. I didn't think of not having a lot of choices! Good thing we all have this board! I hope everything works out for you and kitty!!!!

 

[jan and Hep and sara (GA)]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

That does stink if you don't have anymore choices. Like Sienne said you're not asking them to take responsibility. You are taking it. It is your job to make the ultimalte decisions. Its your cat, and you know your cat. Maybe just be careful on how you talk to the vet. "Thanks but I would rather do this and I, in know way hold you responsible. Its just what works for me and Big Kitty."

I left the vet with the big ego. I did so without any confrontation. I knew he had a big ego and I didn't like the way the other vet treated me either. So I was lucky enough to have my new vet to change to. I don't live were there are a lot of choices either.

My new vet has never dosed my cat. She knows I do it and have the help from wonderful FD. She obviously has confidence in me and this site. She's fine with it, and I think she also uses it as a learning experience. Maybe your'e vet in time will turn around.

good luck again, and I hope the stress level for you goes down soon.

jan and sara

 

[Blue]

!

OK I must be missing alot of the story here.

BK is YOUR cat, YOU are dishing out the money, YOU are giving the shots, YOU are caring for BK, and ultimately, no exceptions, YOU ARE THE BOSS OF ALL DECISIONS.

Since you are stuck with a wannabe/old school vet, you need to make do. Lie your face off and just smile and nod. Tell the vet you are doing exactly what you were instructed to do. Say that you are feeding dry food. Say that you are increasing by full units. Say whatever this 'vet' wants you to do.

You need the vet for certain things, but advice on treating FD is NOT one of them. The protocol followed here on this site works and there is proof. I started on this board around the same time at 2 other persons: Ronnie/Luna and Randi/Max.
BOTH of their cats are OTJ by following this protocol so I think 2 outta 3 is pretty good numbers for proof that a method can work.
My two are still on insulin but will always be as they are both acro.

I had alot of trouble getting my vet office to send out the blood draw for Shadoe to MSU... they said she did not 'look' acro. I said ok fine ... you are so smart, YOU tell ME why she is needing 9uBID plus R!! I said draw the blood and here is the paper with the instructions. Call MSU; find out how to ship it to them. Get it done.
They dragged their feet but I was spitting mad and screaming at them about wanting the tests and it's my money. I made sure there was other clients there too ... they usher me into a room often, but not so much now because they know I research all and ask for what works and I intend to get it.

Honestly, you can lie through your teeth and tell this 'vet' anything because the 'vet' is not in your home, right? If BK gets sick, you can always blame the 'vet' for improper FD treatment as a contributing factor. Of course, you need for testing and meds for issues non-FD and dental work etc, but for FD, all you need is the rx for I guess the insulin and syringes. Being in Canada, I just go to the pharmacy and say give me this or that..

OK so your dose is still low, around 4u or so, so you still need to go through the protocol by the rules because it really does work. One of the two cats I mentioned earlier - Randi/Max - got up to almost 7u before finding the right dose, so the patience thing is needed along with going to start with being aggressive, with 4cycles and likely .5u increases. I don't know at what level of doses the others got the tests for acro & IAA, but I had Shadoe tested at 9u BID and Oliver at 12u BID +4R. I waited too long for him but I just could not believe I had TWO acros!

That's OK; I do have TWO acros. I consult my vets on nothing that is FD related; I educate them with info on every visit. I also gave them one of the acro calendars and told them to read all the info in it. The vet techs were thrilled with it!

Now, when I go to the vet, it's for b/w or u/a to check for infections or something. I go to them for dental as well. I took a kitten I got from a rescue for her full kitty check. And that's that. On each visit, I tell the vet what dose both are on, and I take in copies of their 2 spreadsheets so they can see for themselves. Every once in awhile I have them include a fructosamine test with the b/w and they are amazed at how well both acros test as well regulated.

You can take a look at our ss, and maybe you could see Randi/Max's ss to see his numbers. There are some kitties that are just thirsty kitties, so you can just hold off the acro/IAA testing till you are sure that BK is not a thirsty kitty. Please know that acro or not acro, you will not really change how you treat ... you will still give insulin and it will be what BK needs.
If it's 5u or 50u, you give what the kitty needs. The test will tell you if BK has a functioning pancreas or not, so you can hold off the testing because the expense may not be needed if BK turns out to be like Randi's Max! Wouldn't that be great!!

As for the acro results being iffy .... how many cats has your 'vet' had tested, or the 'specialist' for that matter? Ask them for credentials in treating FD and acros. Ask them about what the ranges are for both of the tests. Ask them to explain acro to you and also explain what IAA is. Ask the 'vet' to help you understand. Oh they don't have any info? Well, then how are they backing their advice? On things they have read or found on the internet? On a 15min class a decade ago in vet college?

OK /rant off ... there are so very many incredible vets, but I have not found any who know much about FD and none about acro.
Oliver has a heart murmur and one vet I see also has a vet with a similar heart issue, so I listen to her words on that topic. She knows nothing about FD though. Another vet is INCREDIBLE WITH ALL ANIMALS like a dr dolittle and handles all the dental work, but she openly admits she knows squat about FD and loves all the info she gets from me. She also is the best at knowing just what a/b and tx will work when my two are sick; she is an incredible vet. The vet techs are giddy when I give them the ss.

But none of them tell me what to do when it comes to FD or dosing.
My cats. My money. My decisions. My responsibility. End of discussion.

You have an incredible support system on this board. I doubt that you could have a question or concern that no one can answer or address.
To know the road ahead, ask the man coming back.

 

[Ann & Tess GA]

Re: 11/03 Big Kitty, AMPS 364; had a "blow-out" with a vet..

(((((((((((( E )))))))))))))) Too many of us have had bad experiences with vets unfamiliar w/ FD. I think Gayle is my hero in how she gets what her cats need. My ex-vet lasted 3 days after Tess's dx, that was because he was closed all weekend! You don't have a location listed. Where are you? Someone here may know of a vet you could try. Also are there any Universities or Colleges in the area that may have a vet school?

Good luck, remember you are not accountable to your vet it is the other way around. I hate to say go the fake SS route, but if that is what it takes to get BK the care he needs from the vet so be it. The only drawback is that when anti-jinx he improves she will think she was right. :?