11/02 Cole - PMPS 241 / +1 281 / +2 248

Butters & Lyla said:
When you have a moment, please let me know the name of the MC you're feeding.
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it was Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato - but looking at it, I'm not sure if it qualifies as MC.
Then I tried the IAMS Iams Perfect Portions Chicken as it has gravy - but I can't read the %
Now this last time I'm trying some prescription food Royal Canin Fiber which is 6% protein, 2% fat - so I think this is better? HC?
 
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Okay good. Hopefully he is still going to go up. The honey isn't going to hold him but maybe the other food or a bounce will kick in. Hold off feeding and test again in another 15 minutes. He has a tiny bit of buffer. I'm glad you got the test after 15 minutes.
 
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Colio said:
it's wet

Royal Canin Fiber - Veterinary Diet
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I can't find carb content for it but it's not ver high carb if we use the rough anaylis from Pierson - it's at most 7%.

The rough analysis is you take 100% and subtract out moisture, protein, fat, fiber, and ash. Here's the Commercial Cat Food page from Pierson - https://catinfo.org/commercial-cat-foods/#Calculating__Percentage_of_Carbohydrates:

Royal Canin doesn't have ash listed so I subtracted the rest and got 7%...and then maybe minus about 1-2% for ash. Here's the RC info - https://www.royalcanin.com/ca/en_ca/cats/products/vet-products/feline-fiber-canned-cat-food
 
JaxBenji said:
I can't find carb content for it but it's not ver high carb if we use the rough anaylis from Pierson - it's at most 7%.

The rough analysis is you take 100% and subtract out moisture, protein, fat, fiber, and ash. Here's the Commercial Cat Food page from Pierson - https://catinfo.org/commercial-cat-foods/#Calculating__Percentage_of_Carbohydrates:

Royal Canin doesn't have ash listed so I subtracted the rest and got 7%...and then maybe minus about 1-2% for ash. Here's the RC info - https://www.royalcanin.com/ca/en_ca/cats/products/vet-products/feline-fiber-canned-cat-food
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I did a poor job of shopping for what I thought was MC and HC food ... :(
 
Colio said:
I did a poor job of shopping for what I thought was MC and HC food ... :(
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Honey and LC works too - in fact it's listed on the low number sticky - we should have asked what exactly you had from the start. And now you have a shopping list :bighug::bighug::bighug:So from here on out, use your prescription food + honey. Small bites. Like tsp food with tsp honey. We want him to keep eating if needed.
 
Actually let's just do a tsp of the fiber food. no honey. and test in 20. That honey brought him up but will wear off.
 
If he's up again at the next test...which I'm hoping he will be, we can probably give an hour pokie break (and you can take breath again too :) :) :))
 
I think this is a summary of food and numbers. Did you get a +3? It doesn't look like it but not sure if I missed it because that was right when I ran out earlier today. I like looking back at #s and food after the fact to see how my cat reacted to the food. It's all a learning experience :bighug:

+2 49 *3 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+2.5 77 *no food
+3 ??
+3.5 52 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4 59 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4.5 65 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+5 59 *2 tsp ~7%, 2 tsp honey (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+5.25 70 *no food
+5.5 95 *1 tsp Fiber Rx ~7% (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
 
Colio said:
up to 99

What next - food?
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He's flat from 20 minutes ago (95 and 99 are essentially the same). We can wait 30 and see what he does with no food. We are coming up on the second half the cycle so the insulin impact should be coming down. What do you think?
 
JaxBenji said:
He's flat from 20 minutes ago (95 and 99 are essentially the same). We can wait 30 and see what he does with no food. We are coming up on the second half the cycle so the insulin impact should be coming down. What do you think?
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I'll wait and Lyla is bringing me some HC so should have better options in 30 minutes... I hope this stays flat
 
Sounds good - so next test around +6.25.

+2 49 *3 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+2.5 77 *no food
+3 ??
+3.5 52 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4 59 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4.5 65 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+5 59 *2 tsp ~7%, 2 tsp honey (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+5.25 70 *no food
+5.5 95 *1 tsp Fiber Rx ~7% (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+5.75 99 *no food
 
Colio said:
:) If I test in a hour and he is up, I assume wait / if he is down again?
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He *should* continue to rise till PMPS but he's cat :) and honey does wear off. So the extra test is just insurance.

If he's lower, we'll see the number and see if we want to feed. We can give small snacks up to +10 to make sure the PMPS isn't food influenced (if he's in low #s at +10, we would of course feed and discuss the PM shot)
 
Colio said:
Actually at +6.5
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Awesome - corrected the timeline below. Also added the AMPS...I keep track of breakfast and dinners too so may be worth noting.

See you at +7.5.

AMPS 137 *breakfast
+2 49 *3 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+2.5 77 *no food
+3 ??
+3.5 52 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4 59 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4.5 65 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+5 59 *2 tsp ~7%, 2 tsp honey (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+5.25 70 *no food
+5.75 95 *1 tsp Fiber Rx ~7% (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+6 99 *no food
+6.5 122 *no food, test in 1 hour
 
Hi, I'm back. Good to see Cole is still rising. You want him to stay up for two full hours without any food or honey, not sure if Susanne mentioned. I'll pop on and off I just have to feed Butters.

So I gave you 3 pouches: those are all MC foods.
And three cans: those are HC foods.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Hi, I'm back. Good to see Cole is still rising. You want him to stay up for two full hours without any food or honey, not sure if Susanne mentioned. I'll pop on and off I just have to feed Butters.

So I gave you 3 pouches: those are all MC foods.
And three cans: those are HC foods.
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Thank you so much Lyla for your kindness and help today. It helped with my stress over not having the right food - and I am so appreciative. :bighug:
 
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Team effort. :bighug: Also, others have helped me as much and more. I'm just paying forward the kindnesses other people on the board have shown me.
So when you need one, double check what % to use if someone is helping you. HC should definitely have been used today. I'm not great with AT numbers but I'd say roughly between 58-67, an MC would be a good place to start. You'll need to play around at first while you figure out how responsive Cole is to the carbs. That's why it is so important to note what % carb food you feed him and what impact it had on his BG, so you know for next time.

The summary that Susanne did for you, I recommend you copy that right into the remarks in your spreadsheet. :)
 
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He is up a bit more, that's good. We are almost at the 2 hour mark without food. How do you feel about withholding food for another hour and testing again?

That will bring us to 8.5, then we can see where he is at and discuss when next to feed (no food 2 hours prior to giving insulin), and hopefully start getting a slightly better idea of where he might be headed for PMPS.
 
You're doing wonderful! I think Cole is in a safe spot. He should continue to rise to PMPS.

Butters & Lyla said:
AT numbers but I'd say roughly between 58-67, an MC would be a good place to start.
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FWIW, I would use HC any time you are under the "take action number" which is 68 on AT2. If Cole is near 68 but above it, I would use MC to help keep him surfing. If Cole is under 68 but super close to it 68 (say 65-67), you could try the MC to see if that raises him (assuming you can test in 30 minutes from feeding). You will adjust all this feeding strategy as you get more familiar with how Cole reacts to food. I can bring Jax up from the 50s (on human meter) with MC but when he dips into the 40s (on human meter), I usually need to give him a bit of the HC. It's an ECID thing.

And do a tsp at a time of the gravy whether its MC or HC. The idea is to get the kitty to safe numbers and then have them stay there as long as we can and if our schedules allow :) If our schedules don't allow, we would be more heavy handed with the food.

Hope that helps. Excellent work today :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
And updated timeline :)

AMPS 137 *breakfast
+2 49 *3 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+2.5 77 *no food
+3 *missed due to work conflict
+3.5 52 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4 59 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+4.5 65 *1 tbs 3%, 1 tsp honey (Beyond the Grain Chicken and Sweet Potato)
+5 59 *2 tsp ~7%, 2 tsp honey (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+5.25 70 *no food
+5.75 95 *1 tsp Fiber Rx ~7% (RC Fiber Vet Diet Wet)
+6 99 *no food
+6.5 122 *no food, test in 1 hour
+7.5 135 *no food, test in 1 hour
 
JaxBenji said:
You're doing wonderful! I think Cole is in a safe spot. He should continue to rise to PMPS.


FWIW, I would use HC any time you are under the "take action number" which is 68 on AT2. If Cole is near 68 but above it, I would use MC to help keep him surfing. If Cole is under 68 but super close to it 68 (say 65-67), you could try the MC to see if that raises him (assuming you can test in 30 minutes from feeding). You will adjust all this feeding strategy as you get more familiar with how Cole reacts to food. I can bring Jax up from the 50s (on human meter) with MC but when he dips into the 40s (on human meter), I usually need to give him a bit of the HC. It's an ECID thing.

And do a tsp at a time of the gravy whether its MC or HC. The idea is to get the kitty to safe numbers and then have them stay there as long as we can and if our schedules allow :) If our schedules don't allow, we would be more heavy handed with the food.

Hope that helps. Excellent work today :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I am printing this out so I have it to refer to - I learned alot today - wish it hadn't been so dramatic, but you and Lyla have been wonderful. :) Thank you for the support
 
I use a human meter, like Susanne. All things being equal, I would use LC to bring Butters up from the 50s, MC to bring her out of the 40s, and HC lower than that. This is what I was taught. And it assumes she hasn't had a big dramatic drop. If she has, then I'll be more aggressive and break out MC food earlier. I'd also use MC sooner if she was sliding lower earlier in the cycle. Totally clear, right?;) We err on the side of caution when you're new. It is somewhat an ECID thing and somewhat what you're taught. You'll find what works well for Cole. That's why you wanna keep a variety of foods on hand and track what you use.
 
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Colio said:
Up to 193 @ +8.5

Usually I feed dinner in an hour - so +9.5. Thoughts?
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You are free to do as you please :) Withhold food 2 hours before shot time.

BTW, do you usually feed two meals or several small ones? I used to feed Jax two meals but then switched to several small ones (with a little larger breakfast and dinner which I serve at shot time). I serve a small snack at +9.5 or +10 (1-2 tsp) and then dinner at shot time.
 
I'd say we're good. Nice job. Carry on as normal with dinner. You can give him a poke break to PMPS. But do post at PMPS time with the number.
Remember Cole earned a reduction to 2.75u.
 
JaxBenji said:
You are free to do as you please :) Withhold food 2 hours before shot time.

BTW, do you usually feed two meals or several small ones? I used to feed Jax two meals but then switched to several small ones (with a little larger breakfast and dinner which I serve at shot time). I serve a small snack at +9.5 or +10 (1-2 tsp) and then dinner at shot time.
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It used to be 2 meals, with dry down all the time. Now that we are only having wet food, it's several small meals, and two larger ones for breakfast and dinner. Evening shot is about 2.5 hours after dinner.
 
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