11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102 +6~99
- Thread starter Steven & Shadow
- Start date
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Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: 11.01.13, Shadow,AMPS~89
Nice!!!! Keep up the excellent work, you 2!
Nice!!!! Keep up the excellent work, you 2!
Josie & Ripley (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 11.01.13, Shadow,AMPS~89
What a nice report! Lovely greens lately!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Have a good day
What a nice report! Lovely greens lately!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Have a good day
bettyandhank
Member Since 2010
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89
MORE BEAUTIFUL NUMBERS!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
saw this from last night:
Can you believe from shooting blind 2U BID to this in just a couple weeks! WOW!
I think you should share with your vet in detail what you are doing. Maybe it will help her to better understand and help another patient in the future.
Many cannot conceptualize how these teensie amounts of insulin can do anything..but your kitty is case in point. It can!
When we were first DX that vet would have started us on 3UBID to be 'conservative'. I found this out only later because I asked for my records after we moved on and saw it in the notes. Turns out 1U BID was too much for Hank pretty quickly. He also responded to micro-doses. So by the time we try vet #3 we were already well on our way down the dosing ladder with help from the wonderful folks here. However had no vet at this point.. and what if the insulin dropped/broke or something else were to happen? So we tried another vet who I heard had a diabetic cat of her own. Figured I could learn something and she would 'get it'. While she was impressed with our charts and fine with home testing,..she herself tested her own cat only every now and then 'if he looks funny'. Said he is rarely under 200. I thought to myself, well how do you know he wasn't this morning? ;-)
By then we were on .50 or .25U which she just thought was not enough to even bother. (or measure). She said fine to take him off then not conceiving that .25 much less LESS than that was even doing anything. We continued for at least another couple weeks.. going from .25, .10, drop, then....essence of insulin ;-). I wanted it to stick! Sometimes I think taking them off is almost as scary as putting them on. :lol:
Regardless you now 'get it'. And the more people who do get it the better for more kitties who you hope can get OTJ.
So happy for you and your boy! He must feel so much better!!
MORE BEAUTIFUL NUMBERS!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
saw this from last night:
BINGO!!
Can you believe from shooting blind 2U BID to this in just a couple weeks!
WOW!I think you should share with your vet in detail what you are doing. Maybe it will help her to better understand and help another patient in the future.
Many cannot conceptualize how these teensie amounts of insulin can do anything..but your kitty is case in point. It can!
When we were first DX that vet would have started us on 3UBID to be 'conservative'. I found this out only later because I asked for my records after we moved on and saw it in the notes. Turns out 1U BID was too much for Hank pretty quickly. He also responded to micro-doses. So by the time we try vet #3 we were already well on our way down the dosing ladder with help from the wonderful folks here. However had no vet at this point.. and what if the insulin dropped/broke or something else were to happen? So we tried another vet who I heard had a diabetic cat of her own. Figured I could learn something and she would 'get it'. While she was impressed with our charts and fine with home testing,..she herself tested her own cat only every now and then 'if he looks funny'. Said he is rarely under 200. I thought to myself, well how do you know he wasn't this morning? ;-)
By then we were on .50 or .25U which she just thought was not enough to even bother. (or measure). She said fine to take him off then not conceiving that .25 much less LESS than that was even doing anything. We continued for at least another couple weeks.. going from .25, .10, drop, then....essence of insulin ;-). I wanted it to stick! Sometimes I think taking them off is almost as scary as putting them on. :lol:
Regardless you now 'get it'. And the more people who do get it the better for more kitties who you hope can get OTJ.
So happy for you and your boy! He must feel so much better!!
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89
Good job, Steven & Shadow!
Ella & Rusty
p.s. I shot Stu, my first diabetic cat, without testing for 4 years with PZI Vet, one of the older insulins that no longer is available. We brought him in once a month to be "tested" and occasionally this involved a dose increase (fortunately PZI Vet was not a "depot" insulin). When we were switched to Lantus by a new vet (we had moved), the dose was set at what it had been on PZI Vet. Stu was checked every 2 weeks to see how he was doing on Lantus. In a little over a month Stu's dose had been raised by 1 or 2 units at a time and was at 7 units! The poor kitty was struggling and looked awful. It was at that point that I found FDMB and learned how to home test. The people here saved Stu's life.
Good job, Steven & Shadow!
Ella & Rusty
p.s. I shot Stu, my first diabetic cat, without testing for 4 years with PZI Vet, one of the older insulins that no longer is available. We brought him in once a month to be "tested" and occasionally this involved a dose increase (fortunately PZI Vet was not a "depot" insulin). When we were switched to Lantus by a new vet (we had moved), the dose was set at what it had been on PZI Vet. Stu was checked every 2 weeks to see how he was doing on Lantus. In a little over a month Stu's dose had been raised by 1 or 2 units at a time and was at 7 units! The poor kitty was struggling and looked awful. It was at that point that I found FDMB and learned how to home test. The people here saved Stu's life.
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89
Shadow is doing great Steven!!
What a difference between then and now! You're both doing so great and I know you're concerned that you might not be able to do so much testing (with your work) so it would sure be wonderful if you could get Shadow OTJ entirely!
He sure looks like a cat on a mission!!
Shadow is doing great Steven!!
What a difference between then and now! You're both doing so great and I know you're concerned that you might not be able to do so much testing (with your work) so it would sure be wonderful if you could get Shadow OTJ entirely!
He sure looks like a cat on a mission!!
Steven & Shadow
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56
Yeah, 0.1u looks to be keeping him between 50 and 100. His last test at AM+6 was 56 so I fed him a little early. I'm supposed to be out of town the weekend after this one and 0.1u is a tough dose to do for a pet sitter. I guess I'll preload some syringes if I have to. They don't have a problem giving him a shot but I'm not trusting anyone with a dose you can barely see. I'm using a magnifying glass holder built for electronics work to do his dose as it is.
Yeah, 0.1u looks to be keeping him between 50 and 100. His last test at AM+6 was 56 so I fed him a little early. I'm supposed to be out of town the weekend after this one and 0.1u is a tough dose to do for a pet sitter. I guess I'll preload some syringes if I have to. They don't have a problem giving him a shot but I'm not trusting anyone with a dose you can barely see. I'm using a magnifying glass holder built for electronics work to do his dose as it is.
bettyandhank
Member Since 2010
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56
lol :lol: :lol: on the magnifying glass.
weekend after next is a long time away. It may be that magnifying glass is a non-issue. Shadow is working this juice.
You may be on 'essence of Insulin' by then (anti-jinx).
Another GORGEOUS day of numbers. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You realize how great he is doing, yes????
lol :lol: :lol: on the magnifying glass.
weekend after next is a long time away. It may be that magnifying glass is a non-issue. Shadow is working this juice.
You may be on 'essence of Insulin' by then (anti-jinx).
Another GORGEOUS day of numbers. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You realize how great he is doing, yes????
Steven & Shadow
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102
I’ll admit I have my doubts about the efficacy of these micro-doses but I am a skeptic by nature. I haven’t generated a lot of data but what I have suggests that currently without at least some insulin Shadow’s blood glucose level will drift higher into not good territory and that what most would call a very small dose puts him in danger of drifting too low into the hypoglycemic danger zone. I’m guessing most vets would scoff at micro-doses and recommend going off the juice at this point but I’ve already seen the drift upward without insulin so I’m sticking with the program.
I think its important to remember that vets are business people as well as animal care experts. They have reputation and legal issues to consider. They don’t really know their clients and have to think in terms of the lowest common denominator based on the premise of doing the least harm to the animal, and the family as well. If they discourage home testing it may be not just that they are losing a little business from less testing but also that they are seeking to save the animal from people who don’t stick with the program and allow their cat to drift into DKA land. If they discourage raw food or home made food it is probably because they are worried about possible contamination from maybe not so sterile storage and kitchen facilities. If they discourage micro-doses it may be because they simply can’t recommend to people they don’t really know and trust, actions that require a high degree of care and accuracy.
I remember my vet, who I like and whose knowledge I respect, telling me when Shadow was diagnosed that statistically the most common outcome after diabetes diagnoses in cats is euthanasia. A lot of people can’t or won’t deal with it. She was straight up about the costs, hassle, etc. and was gauging my response I think. I can’t remember what I told her but I remember her face was visibly relieved whatever I said.
Shadow’s kicking butt.
I’ll admit I have my doubts about the efficacy of these micro-doses but I am a skeptic by nature. I haven’t generated a lot of data but what I have suggests that currently without at least some insulin Shadow’s blood glucose level will drift higher into not good territory and that what most would call a very small dose puts him in danger of drifting too low into the hypoglycemic danger zone. I’m guessing most vets would scoff at micro-doses and recommend going off the juice at this point but I’ve already seen the drift upward without insulin so I’m sticking with the program.
I think its important to remember that vets are business people as well as animal care experts. They have reputation and legal issues to consider. They don’t really know their clients and have to think in terms of the lowest common denominator based on the premise of doing the least harm to the animal, and the family as well. If they discourage home testing it may be not just that they are losing a little business from less testing but also that they are seeking to save the animal from people who don’t stick with the program and allow their cat to drift into DKA land. If they discourage raw food or home made food it is probably because they are worried about possible contamination from maybe not so sterile storage and kitchen facilities. If they discourage micro-doses it may be because they simply can’t recommend to people they don’t really know and trust, actions that require a high degree of care and accuracy.
I remember my vet, who I like and whose knowledge I respect, telling me when Shadow was diagnosed that statistically the most common outcome after diabetes diagnoses in cats is euthanasia. A lot of people can’t or won’t deal with it. She was straight up about the costs, hassle, etc. and was gauging my response I think. I can’t remember what I told her but I remember her face was visibly relieved whatever I said.
Shadow’s kicking butt.
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102
You have the situation totally right Steven.
Not only is it impossible for vets to keep up with the latest treatments for every disease for every animal they see, even the ones that do know better figure that their clients won't do the work necessary so are hesitant to bring it up.
Unfortunately, it's true that a lot of vets first recommendation is euthanasia, which is really sad, but all the more reason that we talk to our friends and family about our experiences treating our own cats at home. The only way to stop the senseless death is to educate.
And you're totally correct that Shadow is kicking butt too!!
You have the situation totally right Steven.
Not only is it impossible for vets to keep up with the latest treatments for every disease for every animal they see, even the ones that do know better figure that their clients won't do the work necessary so are hesitant to bring it up.
Unfortunately, it's true that a lot of vets first recommendation is euthanasia, which is really sad, but all the more reason that we talk to our friends and family about our experiences treating our own cats at home. The only way to stop the senseless death is to educate.
And you're totally correct that Shadow is kicking butt too!!
Steven & Shadow
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102
Yep. Lots of stuff going on with our critters and I'm sure it's tough to keep up on it all.
For the record my vet did not recommend euthanasia. She was immediately optimistic about his future and encouraged treatment if I was up to it. She only mentioned euthanasia in a statistical sense, I think, to let me know that I wasn't the only one if went that route. That has got to be the worst part of her job.
Yep. Lots of stuff going on with our critters and I'm sure it's tough to keep up on it all.
For the record my vet did not recommend euthanasia. She was immediately optimistic about his future and encouraged treatment if I was up to it. She only mentioned euthanasia in a statistical sense, I think, to let me know that I wasn't the only one if went that route. That has got to be the worst part of her job.
bettyandhank
Member Since 2010
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102
It's old school thinking...but yes people still say it. Would you put Grandma down for having diabetes?...ya' know!
You do realize on these teenie micro-doses you won't have the same kind of huge swings as you do at higher doses...so not that you don't need to worry at all, but maybe you can worry a little less.
And yes, Shadow’s kicking butt BIG TIME! \M/ \M/
WOO HOO!! flip_cat
It's old school thinking...but yes people still say it. Would you put Grandma down for having diabetes?...ya' know!
You do realize on these teenie micro-doses you won't have the same kind of huge swings as you do at higher doses...so not that you don't need to worry at all, but maybe you can worry a little less.
And yes, Shadow’s kicking butt BIG TIME! \M/ \M/
WOO HOO!! flip_cat
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 11.01.13 Shadow AMPS~89 +6~56 PMPS~102
My vet didn't either...He wanted to sell me all kinds of expensive prescription food and then have me coming in once/week for bloodwork
I was SO thrilled that fate stepped in though. I'd taken China in because of her weight loss, drinking a lot, etc. and the blood test showed diabetes. He wanted to do a urine on her too, but she didn't have any at the time, so since the next day I had to bring my dog in for her shots, I told him to just keep her overnight. I used that time to do research and found the FDMB.
When I went in the next day, I knew what I wanted, and what I didn't want. HE on the other hand, was quite upset with me and my questions, so after saying I'd try a diet change (he said "insulin was a hassle") and bring her back in 2 weeks (which I had no intention of doing), I brought her home, switched her to low carb wet and went shopping for a new vet.
Vet #2 wasn't much better...said I shouldn't believe anything I read on the internet and that dry food was just fine
Vet #3 finally agreed to work WITH me instead of dictate TO me, and since then, I've been doing all her treatment at home and just following up with him every few months. He's learning from China and me!
My vet didn't either...He wanted to sell me all kinds of expensive prescription food and then have me coming in once/week for bloodwork
I was SO thrilled that fate stepped in though. I'd taken China in because of her weight loss, drinking a lot, etc. and the blood test showed diabetes. He wanted to do a urine on her too, but she didn't have any at the time, so since the next day I had to bring my dog in for her shots, I told him to just keep her overnight. I used that time to do research and found the FDMB.
When I went in the next day, I knew what I wanted, and what I didn't want. HE on the other hand, was quite upset with me and my questions, so after saying I'd try a diet change (he said "insulin was a hassle") and bring her back in 2 weeks (which I had no intention of doing), I brought her home, switched her to low carb wet and went shopping for a new vet.
Vet #2 wasn't much better...said I shouldn't believe anything I read on the internet and that dry food was just fine
Vet #3 finally agreed to work WITH me instead of dictate TO me, and since then, I've been doing all her treatment at home and just following up with him every few months. He's learning from China and me!
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