Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
And don't forget about warming the ear first. That step is essential.Wendy&Tiggy said:
10 Units Twice Daily
- Thread starter Moretakitty
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Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
I also have a sock with rice that I nuked in the microwave that I used to warm the ear up and I also rubbed his ear with my fingers.
Thanks!
Wendy&Tiggy said:
I also have a sock with rice that I nuked in the microwave that I used to warm the ear up and I also rubbed his ear with my fingers.
Thanks!
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
I also have a sock with rice that I nuked in the microwave that I used to warm the ear up and I also rubbed his ear with my fingers.
Thanks!
They are the lancets for the OneTouch Ultra, so 28G I believe.Wendy&Tiggy said:
Used a few things from my finger to a cotton ball.Wendy&Tiggy said:
We are using the lancet tool.Wendy&Tiggy said:
Wendy&Tiggy said:
I also have a sock with rice that I nuked in the microwave that I used to warm the ear up and I also rubbed his ear with my fingers.
Thanks!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Ahaha!
First, the lancets that come with tools are often 33g which is too fine for a newbie.
Second you need something firm behind the ear to give you more traction, like a pill bottle lid
Third you might want to try freehanding the lancet, it gives you more control of pressure and depth and you can see better what you are doing . go in at a 45degree angle.
Wendy
Ahaha!
First, the lancets that come with tools are often 33g which is too fine for a newbie.
Second you need something firm behind the ear to give you more traction, like a pill bottle lid
Third you might want to try freehanding the lancet, it gives you more control of pressure and depth and you can see better what you are doing . go in at a 45degree angle.
Wendy
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Well the one touch ultra lancets are 28g, I double checked.
We did get a reading tonight however, it was 151.
We are going to check again in the morning.
Thanks!!
Well the one touch ultra lancets are 28g, I double checked.
We did get a reading tonight however, it was 151.
We are going to check again in the morning.
Thanks!!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Fantastic! At what point did you get the 151? Remember the insulin works in a curve so the blood sugar starts high at preshot , then drops to a low, then back up again for the next shot ( generally). So we recommend four tests a day if you really want to know whats going on
- Always always test preshot - you dont want to shoot when too low
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot if your schedule allows - you are trying to see here how low he goes because its the low number you base dose changes on
- before bed - 2-3 hours after nighttime preshot test to see what his nighttime plans are. If this number is same or less than the preshot test you may want to set the alarm for another test at +6 (6 hours after shot time) because this usually means an active cycle
Also its a good idea to track readings on a spreadsheet - this helps you track trends and us to advise you better: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
Fantastic! At what point did you get the 151? Remember the insulin works in a curve so the blood sugar starts high at preshot , then drops to a low, then back up again for the next shot ( generally). So we recommend four tests a day if you really want to know whats going on
- Always always test preshot - you dont want to shoot when too low
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot if your schedule allows - you are trying to see here how low he goes because its the low number you base dose changes on
- before bed - 2-3 hours after nighttime preshot test to see what his nighttime plans are. If this number is same or less than the preshot test you may want to set the alarm for another test at +6 (6 hours after shot time) because this usually means an active cycle
Also its a good idea to track readings on a spreadsheet - this helps you track trends and us to advise you better: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Great number, that 151. Now, you just need to post where, along the cycle, you got that number.
If you shoot at 8am and that number was at shot time, I would be worried about the amount of insulin you are giving. if that 151 was around mid-point in the cycle or hrs after the shot, it's a decent number.
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
Now, not all cats have that type of curve, but for now, since you are not regularly testing and have not done any curves, we'll use it.
One of my acros have nadir earlier, around +5; my other acro was closer to +10 or later.
The first curve looked like a valley; the second, like a mountain. Once you have done a few curves, you will be able to see where YOUR cat falls with a curve.
I have not seen any mention, but the ears truly do 'learn' to bleed. The healing after pokes for tests result in easier bleeding in time. You can also try the other side of the ear as well. One of mine was better on the underside of the ear tip; the other, on the upper, hairy side of the ear.
I should mention that I never warmed their ears, so you may find that step is not essential but rather just a bother.
For testing, I don't freehand because you cannot regulate your depth like you can with the lancet devise. Yes, some people may say it's better or easier, but it is never ever as consistent as when using the lancet device... the device is always the same angle and the same depth, and that's consistency.
I hope you will be able to set up a google spreadsheet because seeing the trends in your numbers are going to be quite important if you find your cat does have acromegaly because other acro owners will be able to help you with seeing where the numbers are headed.
The spreadsheet is good for normal diabetic cats too as you will be able to get some guidance from other diabetic cat owners.
I should mention that many cats, all acro cats, end up needing to switch to a longer lasting insulin like Lantus or Levemir, but once you are feeding a low carb wet food and doing curves, you will see how much insulin your cat truly needs, and if it is lasting most of the 12hrs.
Gayle
Moretakitty said:
Great number, that 151. Now, you just need to post where, along the cycle, you got that number.
If you shoot at 8am and that number was at shot time, I would be worried about the amount of insulin you are giving. if that 151 was around mid-point in the cycle or hrs after the shot, it's a decent number.
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
Now, not all cats have that type of curve, but for now, since you are not regularly testing and have not done any curves, we'll use it.
One of my acros have nadir earlier, around +5; my other acro was closer to +10 or later.
The first curve looked like a valley; the second, like a mountain. Once you have done a few curves, you will be able to see where YOUR cat falls with a curve.
I have not seen any mention, but the ears truly do 'learn' to bleed. The healing after pokes for tests result in easier bleeding in time. You can also try the other side of the ear as well. One of mine was better on the underside of the ear tip; the other, on the upper, hairy side of the ear.
I should mention that I never warmed their ears, so you may find that step is not essential but rather just a bother.
For testing, I don't freehand because you cannot regulate your depth like you can with the lancet devise. Yes, some people may say it's better or easier, but it is never ever as consistent as when using the lancet device... the device is always the same angle and the same depth, and that's consistency.
I hope you will be able to set up a google spreadsheet because seeing the trends in your numbers are going to be quite important if you find your cat does have acromegaly because other acro owners will be able to help you with seeing where the numbers are headed.
The spreadsheet is good for normal diabetic cats too as you will be able to get some guidance from other diabetic cat owners.
I should mention that many cats, all acro cats, end up needing to switch to a longer lasting insulin like Lantus or Levemir, but once you are feeding a low carb wet food and doing curves, you will see how much insulin your cat truly needs, and if it is lasting most of the 12hrs.
Gayle
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Thanks for the info!
The test was preshot. We gave him his shot right after.
I am keeping a spreadsheet to track his numbers.
We will be testing twice daily right now, preshot before the food switch. Once we switch his food, we will be changing the frequency of testing to include testing after food.
268 this morning.
Panya's Blood Glucose Testing
Edit Note: We give him his shot every 12 hours at 10am.
Thanks for the info!
The test was preshot. We gave him his shot right after.
I am keeping a spreadsheet to track his numbers.
We will be testing twice daily right now, preshot before the food switch. Once we switch his food, we will be changing the frequency of testing to include testing after food.
268 this morning.
Panya's Blood Glucose Testing
Edit Note: We give him his shot every 12 hours at 10am.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
Thats great! I cant seem to see the readings though - did you "share" it for anyone with a link?
Also Can you add the link into your signature so we can find it easily?
thanks
Wendy
Thats great! I cant seem to see the readings though - did you "share" it for anyone with a link?
Also Can you add the link into your signature so we can find it easily?
thanks
Wendy
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Re: 10 Units Twice Dialy
I redid the spreadsheet, it seems it would only open after about 5 minutes of waiting. Also I put it in my sig as per your request.
Thanks!
Wendy&Tiggy said:
I redid the spreadsheet, it seems it would only open after about 5 minutes of waiting. Also I put it in my sig as per your request.
Thanks!
BJM
Member Since 2010
Please see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some additional assessments you may wish to make.
Urine ketone testing is particularly important while you are working on regulating his insulin dose. Ketones form from fat breakdown. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
Urine ketone testing is particularly important while you are working on regulating his insulin dose. Ketones form from fat breakdown. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
yay ! I can see it. Can you also add your and your cats name to your signature as well as the insulin /dose and meter so people can see it at a quick glance ie Seena and Panya, PZI 10 IU BID. One touch ultra.
Did you give Panya insulin this morning? the U column (cell C4) is empty where I would expect to see the dose ie 10IU?
Wendy
Did you give Panya insulin this morning? the U column (cell C4) is empty where I would expect to see the dose ie 10IU?
Wendy
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Ah I see, yes he got his shot this AM and last night. I've updated that column and my signature. Thanks!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Ok cool. Actually these BGs are pretty good considering the dry food.. he is still getting the dry w/d right?
However the key thing is how low is Panya going?.. Its the low number that you really need to know because if its too low (under 50) then a dose decrease is needed. So we need to get some tests around +5 to + 7 because thats the typical low time. And some cats go lower at night hence the request for a before bed test.
Wendy
However the key thing is how low is Panya going?.. Its the low number that you really need to know because if its too low (under 50) then a dose decrease is needed. So we need to get some tests around +5 to + 7 because thats the typical low time. And some cats go lower at night hence the request for a before bed test.
Wendy
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Yes still only the Dry W/D.
I'll see if I can get a reading tomorrow.
Since we feed/give shots at 10am/pm, then go to work or go to bed, that's a little more to work in with us working, I will have to see if we can work in an afternoon shot though. We both work through the week so it might have to wait until this weekend.
I appreciate your help!!
I'll see if I can get a reading tomorrow.
Since we feed/give shots at 10am/pm, then go to work or go to bed, that's a little more to work in with us working, I will have to see if we can work in an afternoon shot though. We both work through the week so it might have to wait until this weekend.
I appreciate your help!!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
what time is it there now? Did you get a PMPS? And can you fit in a before bed test? Seriously I cant emphasize enough how important it is , if you want to prevent a hypo and get him regulated.
Wendy
Wendy
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Would you change the date on your SS? It says month 6 and we are in month 7.
Getting those mid-day tests can be tricky when you work full time. Most people can only get those on a day off. That's why other testing can be useful.
Why did you pick 10 am/10 pm as your test/shoot/feed time? What is a typical day like for you?
I'm asking to see if we can try to figure out when else you might be able to some get other test data.
ETA: If you are willing to share the info, you could add your location to your user control panel, profile tab, edit profile that would answer Wendy's question and be there in the future. Country, state/province, city is nice to see. It's optional but helpful in the event of an emergency. So someone knows if they can stay up with you to support you through a hypo for instance.
Getting those mid-day tests can be tricky when you work full time. Most people can only get those on a day off. That's why other testing can be useful.
Why did you pick 10 am/10 pm as your test/shoot/feed time? What is a typical day like for you?
I'm asking to see if we can try to figure out when else you might be able to some get other test data.
ETA: If you are willing to share the info, you could add your location to your user control panel, profile tab, edit profile that would answer Wendy's question and be there in the future. Country, state/province, city is nice to see. It's optional but helpful in the event of an emergency. So someone knows if they can stay up with you to support you through a hypo for instance.
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
We will be testing tonight before we give him his shot again, it's only 5:30pm here.Wendy&Tiggy said:
Whoops! Thanks for catching that. You'd think that someone who looks at spreadsheets all day wouldn't put that it's June when it's July!Deb & Wink said:
10am was when the doctor first gave him his first shot, so we've stuck at that time every 12 hours. We are typically later risers anyway, for a later work schedule. Hubby gets home later from work, around 8pm.Deb & Wink said:
Done!Deb & Wink said:
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
You aren't stuck at that time, you can move the shot by 15 minutes each time or by half an hour a day. Comes in handy if you know you need to be out in a few days and might be home at a different time.
I have no idea why so much picky little useless info and details are being asked from you.
The most obvious detail is the dose in your signature! Take that out because who is going to have to waste the time to change their signature every time the dose changes! Ridiculous.
As for asking why you picked your shot time, it's none of anyone's business. if you want to change it, you don't have to piddle around with the 15min each shot for change; you can easily do 30min or more each shot.... hey, if you wanted to get creative, you could shoot 2hrs early if you want 8am/pm and just give a reduced dose like 8u or something.
Your signature is for the info that YOU want to share, not what others tell you to put there.
You do not need to put your country, state, city, or any other info if you don't want. Even time zones don't matter because your spreadsheet is based on your shot time and then the number of hours after the shot.
A great deal of people work or are away from home during the week, so there is no need to be stressed about getting mid cycle tests. For some cats, mid cycle tests mean nothing because their nadirs are much earlier or later. You will be just fine to do a curve or two on your weekend or day off, testing every 2 hours and that data will let you know how well and how long your insulin and dose are working. The curves will also tell you the effect that the dry food is having on the numbers. Just see if you can have all food removed 2hrs before shot times so that your pre shot test number will not be food influenced.
It's going to be important that you are able to test a fair amount when you do the food switch to wet because you may need to cut the insulin dose way down.
Gayle
The most obvious detail is the dose in your signature! Take that out because who is going to have to waste the time to change their signature every time the dose changes! Ridiculous.
As for asking why you picked your shot time, it's none of anyone's business. if you want to change it, you don't have to piddle around with the 15min each shot for change; you can easily do 30min or more each shot.... hey, if you wanted to get creative, you could shoot 2hrs early if you want 8am/pm and just give a reduced dose like 8u or something.
Your signature is for the info that YOU want to share, not what others tell you to put there.
You do not need to put your country, state, city, or any other info if you don't want. Even time zones don't matter because your spreadsheet is based on your shot time and then the number of hours after the shot.
A great deal of people work or are away from home during the week, so there is no need to be stressed about getting mid cycle tests. For some cats, mid cycle tests mean nothing because their nadirs are much earlier or later. You will be just fine to do a curve or two on your weekend or day off, testing every 2 hours and that data will let you know how well and how long your insulin and dose are working. The curves will also tell you the effect that the dry food is having on the numbers. Just see if you can have all food removed 2hrs before shot times so that your pre shot test number will not be food influenced.
It's going to be important that you are able to test a fair amount when you do the food switch to wet because you may need to cut the insulin dose way down.
Gayle
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Thank you everyone for help and feedback.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Now that we know your shot time was set by the vet, and the fact that you are late risers, it makes sense. PZI is more flexible on moving shot times around a bit. More so than Lantus.
Ask if you need more info on how much you can move your shot times around. 12/12 schedule is best, but there is some flexibility. We want you to have a life too! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for sharing your location. Now that I know where you live, in case of emergency I can go find other members that might be on-line and can commit to helping you in the wee hours of the morning. I know some of the folks that are on here late at night that live in those western time zones. Now that I know there is a 3 hour time difference in our locations, it means I probably could not be around to help you late at night. It's why I asked.
Ask if you need more info on how much you can move your shot times around. 12/12 schedule is best, but there is some flexibility. We want you to have a life too! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for sharing your location. Now that I know where you live, in case of emergency I can go find other members that might be on-line and can commit to helping you in the wee hours of the morning. I know some of the folks that are on here late at night that live in those western time zones. Now that I know there is a 3 hour time difference in our locations, it means I probably could not be around to help you late at night. It's why I asked.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Hey there. Wow nice numbers. With that 50 the other night I would be inclined to reduce the dose a little - say to 9.5. Also you might want to get more tests in during the day etc as if she keeps doing that you can keep reducing. You dont want her going too low.
Wendy
Wendy
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Is your cat Panya ok? After seeing that 26 on your SS today, I got a little worried.
With that 26 today, you definitely want to reduce. By more than a tiny 0.5U. Think you may want to go back down to 9 or even lower. You know your cat better than we do. Think about how much you want to lower that dose.
Prozinc can be dosed on a sliding scale. That means, if the numbers fall in a particular range, you give one dose. If the numbers are in another higher range, you give a slightly higher dose.
This is an example of a sliding scale. Please, do not use this for Panya. It was developed specifically for another cat. It was based on sufficient test data and the ability of the caregiver to get at least 3-4 tests a day. She also knows this cat very well and can pick up on signs that she is feeling high or low.
Tiffy's sliding scale.
>550 - 3.5
>450 - 3.
>350 - 2.75
>250 - 2.25
>150 ONLY IF HOME TO MONITOR, STALLED 30 MINUTES TO MAKE SURE IT IS RISING AND SHE IS NOT ILL - 1.5
With that 26 today, you definitely want to reduce. By more than a tiny 0.5U. Think you may want to go back down to 9 or even lower. You know your cat better than we do. Think about how much you want to lower that dose.
Prozinc can be dosed on a sliding scale. That means, if the numbers fall in a particular range, you give one dose. If the numbers are in another higher range, you give a slightly higher dose.
This is an example of a sliding scale. Please, do not use this for Panya. It was developed specifically for another cat. It was based on sufficient test data and the ability of the caregiver to get at least 3-4 tests a day. She also knows this cat very well and can pick up on signs that she is feeling high or low.
Tiffy's sliding scale.
>550 - 3.5
>450 - 3.
>350 - 2.75
>250 - 2.25
>150 ONLY IF HOME TO MONITOR, STALLED 30 MINUTES TO MAKE SURE IT IS RISING AND SHE IS NOT ILL - 1.5
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
I just saw that 26.. I hope you gave syrup as that is WAY too low.. and you need to reduce the dose!!!!!
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Hi all,
Thanks for checking in and for the feedback. My vet is a little more responsive, as per his instructions we did not give him his insulin last night, checked him again this morning and he's way high.
The vet wants us to take him in, but I have a feeling that if we do that, his numbers will be elevated. He really does not like the great big outdoors and would prefer to sit inside where there isn't so much hustle and bustle so it really stresses him out.
We are going to play it by ear, adjusting where we can.
Thanks again.
Thanks for checking in and for the feedback. My vet is a little more responsive, as per his instructions we did not give him his insulin last night, checked him again this morning and he's way high.
The vet wants us to take him in, but I have a feeling that if we do that, his numbers will be elevated. He really does not like the great big outdoors and would prefer to sit inside where there isn't so much hustle and bustle so it really stresses him out.
We are going to play it by ear, adjusting where we can.
Thanks again.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
I am SO glad you didnt shoot last night - I never ever shoot under 50. plus again that 38 shows the 10 units is too high! PLEASE reduce the dose before he has a hypo. Try 9 units for a few days.
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Just a little update.
Panya is doing well. He seems happier, his dandruff is lower and he is down a pound. We are managing the Prozinc and switched his glucose monitor to the Relion. We are doing meal feeding twice a day and we are sticking to the Friskies Special Turkey and Giblets.
We are a far cry from where we were a month ago, spending so much on prescription food and going through insulin like it was water. I couldn't have done it without the information and assistance from people here. We are still a work in progress, but today Panya jumped on to the kitchen counter, which is not something he has done a lot in the past due to his size.
But thanks for your help everyone!
Panya is doing well. He seems happier, his dandruff is lower and he is down a pound. We are managing the Prozinc and switched his glucose monitor to the Relion. We are doing meal feeding twice a day and we are sticking to the Friskies Special Turkey and Giblets.
We are a far cry from where we were a month ago, spending so much on prescription food and going through insulin like it was water. I couldn't have done it without the information and assistance from people here. We are still a work in progress, but today Panya jumped on to the kitchen counter, which is not something he has done a lot in the past due to his size.
But thanks for your help everyone!
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
The 2 units are looking good.
Be sure now to get some mid cycle tests - you might find the 2 units now are even too high! If you catch a number under 50 (most likely midday or more likely middle of the night) then reduce by 0.25 !
Wendy
Be sure now to get some mid cycle tests - you might find the 2 units now are even too high! If you catch a number under 50 (most likely midday or more likely middle of the night) then reduce by 0.25 !
Wendy
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Today we went to 1.5. I am going to try to get a midday test today.
He's definitely not feeling sick or ill effects, he's lying with me more and spending time with me, and he's chasing his sister. Being a bit of a bully to one of the others. I have been home to watch him. He's more alert and active then ever. It's nice to see.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
ok good - hold that dose for 3 days unless he goes under 50 again.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
All right! Panya's getting his energy back and chasing his sister. That's one way we know our kitties are doing better, playing.
How are the other 4 P's? peeing, pooping, purring, preening? Appetite still good?
In addition to that mid-day test today, a regular 'one last test before you go to bed' is a good one to get. If you aren't testing at night except for your PMPS, you're missing half your data.
How are the other 4 P's? peeing, pooping, purring, preening? Appetite still good?
In addition to that mid-day test today, a regular 'one last test before you go to bed' is a good one to get. If you aren't testing at night except for your PMPS, you're missing half your data.
Moretakitty
Member Since 2013
Oh yeah the others are really happy about the wet food.They are unfazed by it all except now feeding time excites them more!Deb & Wink said:
Good point, we will do that again.Deb & Wink said:
Will do... he's 67 right now.Wendy&Tiggy said:
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