donaleen and Ozy
Member Since 2013
Yesterday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105887
Last night Carl took the time to write a long response with many questions... I appreciate that. I have so many things roiling around in my head about the protocol and bouncing and how to make Ozy better. I will try to respond here. I tried to respond in yesterday's condo and I got into html trouble.
Carl said: I am not seeing what you are seeing, then. In the last seventeen cycles, I see two cycles that I would call "yuck"... Most cycles are either good ones, or the "consequence" of good cycles that we refer to as bounces. That doesn't qualify them as "bad cycles". There are dozens of beans here that would swap spreadsheets with you in a skinny minute.
I say: In the last 14 cycles he has had only two cycles that were healing cycles (enough green). The rest are at best useless and many are high enough to be damaging and leave me desperately try to get a ketone test. Why should "bounce" cycles get a pass? His numbers are high. That ain't good. And, yes, I agree there are cats with higher numbers than Ozy. I find that discouraging, not comforting. For example, I don't know how Lara handles it with River. She says River feels bad when he is high, too.
Carl said: I understand that you feel that on bouncy days, Ozy looks like he feels like crap. There is a possibility that those crappy days have little to do with his BG numbers.
I say: Well there is a correlation between high numbers and when Ozy feels bad. Is that a cause? Maybe not. But I think it is. There are other people who say their cats feel bad when the numbers are high (Lara and Julie, for example). It is possible that he is getting pain from pancreatitis, but he doesn't have the symptoms I associate with pancreatitis. Maybe I should just Bupe him when he is high.
Carl said: I'm not trying to be dense, but I guess I just don't understand what the expectations are....Even though there is a standard protocol to follow, every cat is an experiment.
I say: My number one goal for Ozy is for him to have a high quality of life. That means engaging with the rest of us. Being interested in the world around him. The five P's. I expect him to feel better more of the time than he is. I am ready to experiment to make that happen. I am willing to test like crazy. I am NOT willing to leave him at a dose that keeps him in the 300's most of the time. So, I raised his dose this morning because I would rather test a lot and bring him up if I need to than see him feel bad.
He was at 3 units for 10 cycles. That is the conservative number of cycles to wait. Only twice did he have reasonable numbers. Now you can tell me about "bounces", but to me it just sounds like blah blah blah blah. It just isn't making sense to leave him in high numbers when it gives him a shitty quality of life. I have started calling this whole bouncing thing the Church of the Bounce because it doesn't make sense to me and I am just supposed to "believe". (In Portland, we have a Church Of Elvis.)
I used to feed him when he asked. But then he started gaining weight really fast (from 14.5 in early July to 17.6 in two months. Now I limit his food using the Dr Lisa guide. I also feed him pretty regularly spaced out meals all 24 hours. When his numbers are high, he begs for food all the time. I see that as another sign that he is not well.
So, I hope this helps you see where I am and what confuses me and doesn't work for us (Ozy and me).
Bottom line: I don't "get" bounces. When his numbers are high it is time to change his dose.
Last night Carl took the time to write a long response with many questions... I appreciate that. I have so many things roiling around in my head about the protocol and bouncing and how to make Ozy better. I will try to respond here. I tried to respond in yesterday's condo and I got into html trouble.
Carl said: I am not seeing what you are seeing, then. In the last seventeen cycles, I see two cycles that I would call "yuck"... Most cycles are either good ones, or the "consequence" of good cycles that we refer to as bounces. That doesn't qualify them as "bad cycles". There are dozens of beans here that would swap spreadsheets with you in a skinny minute.
I say: In the last 14 cycles he has had only two cycles that were healing cycles (enough green). The rest are at best useless and many are high enough to be damaging and leave me desperately try to get a ketone test. Why should "bounce" cycles get a pass? His numbers are high. That ain't good. And, yes, I agree there are cats with higher numbers than Ozy. I find that discouraging, not comforting. For example, I don't know how Lara handles it with River. She says River feels bad when he is high, too.
Carl said: I understand that you feel that on bouncy days, Ozy looks like he feels like crap. There is a possibility that those crappy days have little to do with his BG numbers.
I say: Well there is a correlation between high numbers and when Ozy feels bad. Is that a cause? Maybe not. But I think it is. There are other people who say their cats feel bad when the numbers are high (Lara and Julie, for example). It is possible that he is getting pain from pancreatitis, but he doesn't have the symptoms I associate with pancreatitis. Maybe I should just Bupe him when he is high.
Carl said: I'm not trying to be dense, but I guess I just don't understand what the expectations are....Even though there is a standard protocol to follow, every cat is an experiment.
I say: My number one goal for Ozy is for him to have a high quality of life. That means engaging with the rest of us. Being interested in the world around him. The five P's. I expect him to feel better more of the time than he is. I am ready to experiment to make that happen. I am willing to test like crazy. I am NOT willing to leave him at a dose that keeps him in the 300's most of the time. So, I raised his dose this morning because I would rather test a lot and bring him up if I need to than see him feel bad.
He was at 3 units for 10 cycles. That is the conservative number of cycles to wait. Only twice did he have reasonable numbers. Now you can tell me about "bounces", but to me it just sounds like blah blah blah blah. It just isn't making sense to leave him in high numbers when it gives him a shitty quality of life. I have started calling this whole bouncing thing the Church of the Bounce because it doesn't make sense to me and I am just supposed to "believe". (In Portland, we have a Church Of Elvis.)
I used to feed him when he asked. But then he started gaining weight really fast (from 14.5 in early July to 17.6 in two months. Now I limit his food using the Dr Lisa guide. I also feed him pretty regularly spaced out meals all 24 hours. When his numbers are high, he begs for food all the time. I see that as another sign that he is not well.
So, I hope this helps you see where I am and what confuses me and doesn't work for us (Ozy and me).
Bottom line: I don't "get" bounces. When his numbers are high it is time to change his dose.
Another thing the ever-wise Jojo always said is that Lantus (and Lev) are "Zen" insulins. You have to wait for the numbers to come to you. If you are someone who wants to chase numbers, these are not the right insulins for you to use (not "you" individually, but that's what she always said).
And the other thing I do is when Gracie bounces into yellow....we go out and do something FUN for ourselves.
