10/8 Gracie PMPS 278 +2 252 +4 289 +6 291

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Marje and Gracie

Marje and Gracie

Member Since 2010
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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26865

Recap:
AMPS: 282
+2: 294
+4: 336
+6: 321
PMPS: 294
+2: 295
+4: 282
+8: 268

Good morning everyone....a day of mixed emotions....such sadness for Linda but Bear will be starting his journey to another happy, peaceful place. We are keeping them in our thoughts and prayers.

Gracie is doing well this morning although being difficult about eating her 2, 3, and 4% foods. Yesterday I had to give her 6% and I don't know how much that influenced her numbers. Can anyone tell me if up to 6% really changes the BG? Most of the food she likes best is 5-6%.

Is it possible for someone to look at her spreadsheet please and see if they can tell me the trend that is occurring here? I did not think she would bounce like this with the nice blue surf she had on Wednesday...it just didn't seem extreme. I am concerned as to whether I am getting the insulin in her. I've been shooting in the scruff and I pinch up her fur really well...the needle glides in. She has meowed a couple of times right after I pressed the plunger so don't know what I'm doing wrong. The thing about Grace is she has a little fat pad up around her shoulders and neck (what neck). She has a perfect Scottish Fold build and so she's very rounded everywhere. I just wonder if I'm getting through the fat...I use a 5/16" needle. I have not smelled insulin since her blue day and her fur is not wet so it's going somewhere. This morning I tried a chest shot....2" down from spine and just behind shoulder blades. Again, she meowed right after I pushed the plunger in but the needle went in just smooth and she never felt it. So....I don't know what these numbers are telling me....is she in another 72 hour bounce from a blue day? Am I not getting the insulin in? I feel lost right now.

Thanks for the help...you all are most awesome. Gracie sends love out today and peaceful vines to Bear as he crosses the RB.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 Need Advice please

No advice Marjorie, but wanted to say Muffin meows occasionally with her shot too. I assume it's because I've shot in the same place recently. I've tried flank shots, and she meows at those every time, so I don't do them any more, I just try to do a different area of the scruff each time. I'm sure you're getting the insulin in her just fine, as long as you're feeling the needle going in and not smelling anything. I'm sure other, smarter people will be along.

So sad about Bear Man.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 Need Advice please

Lots of questions. :mrgreen: Let's see if I can get them all.

First, she could be bouncing from the blue. It's annoying when they do that! Usually if they are bouncing from blue, it means they need more insulin. You've been on this cycle long enough that you can increase whenever you're ready. That will hopefully kick start her.

About carb %, it's an ECID thing. For some cats going up to 6% is almost the same as feeding them high carb. For some, it makes little difference. Experiment and see what happens when you feed different foods. Keep notes in your spreadsheet of what you feed so you can see trends as they emerge.

About shooting, for my cat (she's a plus-size model) switching to a 1/2" needle seemed to make a big difference in her numbers. Others have found the same thing when their cat is chubby. It's worth a try. Like most changes with Lantus, it will take a little while to see the results. The longer needles don't come in 31 gauge, so you do have to get a little thicker needles (29 gauge is the smallest), but it didn't bother Lucy and doesn't seem to bother Jazzy.

Verra verra sad about Bear too. He is one of the all-time legends of LL.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 Need Advice please

I switched back to the longer needle after using the short ones for awhile. (I read a comment by the infamous vet tech Jojo in someone's condo that said she preferred the long and that changed my mind so I switched) I have never met Jojo since she left the day I came to LL, but she knows her stuff.
Not sure if the 1/2" 12.7mm needles would be better for you. It's a matter of trying something different and seeing if you like it better. The gauge is larger than the shorties but my two don't seem to mind at all.
Are you sure to shoot at an angle so that the needle is parallel to the body and not INTO the muscle?

As Libby said, ECID and you have to experiment and document the different carbs with Gracie...
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305

Thanks, Anne, for stopping in....it helps to know what others are doing, etc, and I always enjoy your posts.

Libby and Pat: Thank you so much for the quick response. As you can see, she hasn't budged much this morning. I have been noting on my spreadsheet in "comments" the %carbs she is getting. I am at such a state of exhaustion right now that I can't see the forest for the trees :lol: :lol: It seems to me that she does better with the 2-3% carbs but for some reason she is on strike with them right now. I want her to have a high quality diet and so haven't offered her Fancy Feast or Sophisticat except as part of my hypo kit. I may have to rethink that. I did feed her raw in the past and then one day she just turned up her little nose and hasn't eaten it since. grr_red grr_red

I will try the longer needles and see if that helps. I am shooting at about a 45 degree angle...I pinch a good amount of skin/fur, make sure I can see the skin, and then put the needle at an angle...it goes in easy enough so I feel I'm not hitting muscle...plus...she'd probably go bonkers if I did and she doesn't even move when I put the needle in.

Libby...so even though she might be bouncing, I still increase? Do I increase to 1.25 (she's a steroid induced kitty sensitive to change and meds) just to give her a little bump?

I so appreciate the help, comfort, and support I have found here. Thank you.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305

I would think that the next dose would be 1.25u Marjorie....
I have a question for you: did you ever try mixing the raw with some canned? I mix it with Wellness and my two like that...
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305

Pat...thank you...I'll increase to 1.25u tonight.

Do you just mix plain raw with Wellness? In other words...you just buy organic ground chicken or rabbit and mix it in or do you buy one of the brands like Nature's Variety which is all ready to go out of the package...just thaw and serve and it has all the good stuff in it?
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305

I buy chicken thighs, skinless/boneless and mix it with the Feline Future powder with Liver. http://www.feline-future.com
I make 2 lb batch and then freeze it in little containers. I mix it with the canned when I serve it. I have a food processor and it has just become part of my weekly routine now...
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305

Thanks, Pat!!! I tried Feline Future with some of my other cats and they wouldn't eat it but I'll try it with Grace. Thank you.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 1 more Imprt ?

Pat/Libby...as a follow up, I remember that my vet has always told me..."only make one change at a time" esp with Gracie so we can see what is causing any changes. So which do you think is more important here...a dosecrease to 1.25u using the 5/16" needles or keep the same dose and use the 1/2" needle? Here's my thinking: she has responded in the past to the insulin and so perhaps I should do the dosecrease with the shorter needle and then after a couple cycles, change to the 1/2" needle...or do you think it's best to do the 1/2" needle first and see if after a couple cycles, her numbers come down at 1u? I guess I don't understand what could have changed in her that she couldn't hold 1u before but now she needs more juice and am wondering if it's the shorter needle problem? Thank you for the help!
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 1 more Imprt ?

I'm not Libby or Pat but here's my 2 cents. Unless you've been giving fur shots, the length of the needle shouldn't make a difference. You're shooting subcutaneously. If you really want to stagger the change, I'd increase the dose and try the new needles tomorrow.

If you look at Gabby's SS and the SSs of some of the kitties that have been around for a while, doses go up and down. I don't have a cogent explanation as to why. 1.0u may be fine for a while and then you need less and then you need more. Sometimes the dose has to go up before it comes down. Cats are inexplicable -- that's the best explanation I can give.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 1 more Imprt ?

Sienne....didn't mean to leave you out...thought you would be at work and Pat/Libby had been on helping out. Thank you.

So I'll increase the dose tonight and see where she goes. I'll get the needles just in case. I know I'm not giving fur shots....I clear a spot through the fur and I can see/feel the needle go in and I always check around it to make sure it's dry and smell to make sure I don't smell the insulin. One day,I know I didn't get it in because I could smell it very strongly on her. Thank you!
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

Sounds like a good plan to me Marjorie. It sounds like you are very careful to be getting the insulin where it belongs, I'd be surprised if that's the problem.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

FWIW, marjorie, you know i'm a newbie but the vet in june when we were on vetsulin showed me she holds her fingers over the part of the syringe with the insulin in it for a minute or so so that it is not as chilly when injected. that took care of binks meowing when i injected him. others may know if this is valid or not...that vet knew crap-all about FD, so it may not be a good practice...but i have done it ever since
celi
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

Marjorie, did you use the Feline Future with or without liver? I use the one without and add fresh liver. I tried the Wild Kitty powder w/ liver and she wouldn't eat it. I don't know how much different the two FF powders are.

I have to try mixing the Wellness and raw. Tess is not that great a fan of Wellness, but I would love to get her to eat it. Pat how much do you process the thighs? I tried the food processor last time and she preferred it when I just chunked the meat.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

You can put your two fingers around the syringe to take the chill off the insulin...but with the 1.0u dose, I doubt it makes much of an impact, ya know?
And Ann...I process it to the nth degree but still end up with a chunk here or there which they leave in the bowl... :razz:
Some people don't like handling the livers...I have only bought it with liver in the powder...
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

I freeze the meat and liver for a couple of hours and it is pretty easy to cut up.
 
Re: 10/8 Grace AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264

This may be more for Celi than Marjorie but Lantus can sting. It's not that big of an issue for most cats and/or cats who are on small doses. Many of the acro moms switch their cats to Levimir because with the big doses, the sting is more pronounced.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264 +5 277

Celi and Anne: thanks for your support and for the info on holding the syringe to kind of warm the insulin.

Sienne: good to know it can sting...if I know Gracie, that's probably it...she's so sensitive :!:

Pat and Ann: thanks for the info on FF. It's been many years since I used it and I don't remember if I used the liver powder or didn't. So I'll have to look at her site in depth and see. I've tried to get Gracie back on raw many times and if I just put a tiny dab in with her food, she sniffs it and walks away (sound like Muffin?). Anyway...I'm game to try anything to get her back on lower carbs. Do you all know % carbs and also calories in a serving or is it on FF website?

You all have helped me so much today and it has really boosted my morale....which I think was just low this morning because I was so darn tired. But everyone is...just like one of you said...if you have a FD kitty, you're gonna be tired :-D But they are all so worth it.

I'm headed out now to run some errands since numbers are high. Have a great afternoon.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264 +5 277

I can't figure out why I keep missing your condos... bad me!

I've used both needle lengths - really found no difference in Mannie's numbers. But I did prefer the shorter ones, with no definitive reason why.

and so agreed on this... Fits my guy - we've gone up, we've gone down, and repeated many times over...
Sienne and Gabby said:
If you look at Gabby's SS and the SSs of some of the kitties that have been around for a while, doses go up and down. I don't have a cogent explanation as to why. 1.0u may be fine for a while and then you need less and then you need more. Sometimes the dose has to go up before it comes down. Cats are inexplicable -- that's the best explanation I can give.
Click to expand...

I hope you and Gracie have a good day today! Maybe she can find those blues again tonight. And yes on the fatigue thing - I think sometimes that it is my middle name. :lol:
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264 +5 277

Just thought I would add my 2 cents about the needle length I have used both for Do Lou and cannot tell any diff at all with him have gone from scruff to flank and so on and still does not seem to make and diff with his numbers but like others have said ECID my vets push the longer needle which is what I had for the longest time but after a while and I have no idea when we switched someone on here mentioned using the shorter needles and we have been ever since for at least 4 months anyway maybe 5. At least Gracie is moving in the right direction for you today :-D
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264 +5 277

Thanks Lisa and Michelle for visiting...I have missed you two!!! I went to Walmart to get the longer needles but once you buy them...even if you don't use them or open the box, they're yours and I got to thinking...I probably wouldn't shove a 1/2" needle all the way into her anyway so why not try the dosecrease first and then see what happens in the next few days.

I got a chance to run errands and actually snuck in a golf lesson...it was nice to think of something else for a change. Glad to know everyone is tired and it's not that I'm just getting old :lol: :lol:

TIme to do cat chores and then I'll check in...I want to get a +11 on Gracie tonight before I dosecrease. Thinking of Bear as he travels on his new journey.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 305 +4 264 +5 277 +11 276

Hi Marjorie and Gracie! What's up there in AZ? Gracie - you sure have a nice flat yellow going on there. As Sienne always says - watch out - those flat yellow usually mean that sometime soon one kitty may be very busy.

have a great night!

We too are thinking of Bear man. He was such a legend here in LL. a legacy. I know all were enriched for having known him, and his story. One courageous kitty.

Hey Gracie - you still doing OK? ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278

I did the dosecrease to 1.25u; my Hocks order didn't come so am running to pharm to get some more strips and local pub for dinner (takee outee). Promise to get solid, not liquid dinner...altho now I know what drives people to drink :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278

My hocks order came today - got the BD 1/2u syringes. It may just take some getting used to, but I had more trouble fine tuning the dose. Plunger is MUCH better, but I still had an air bubble I couldn't get rid of. (I think it was a smaller one tho)
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278

Hey Marj & Gracie--Worked all day &will be out working this weekend--
Gracie has been doing well, Yellow is good, It usually is followed by a blue--I used both needles & like the 5/16" much better--I actually have some 1/2" if you like them--
I'm just so down, with Bear & Stu, I'll just say you are a good momma bean & wish you a good nite! HUgs!
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278

Thanks, Anne...I hope to get my BD's soon...glad they have better plungers....I've had trouble fine tuning the Relions cuz sometimes the plunger won't move no matter how I turn it clockwise or counterclockwise.

Roni....I hope you have a wonderful weekend but don't work too hard. I think I'm going to stick with the 5/16"...I do like them...we'll see how she does. I appreciate the offer on the 1/2" though. Gracie is actually a very small cat ...I think because she got squids before we started the juice and so every time I pinch her, she thinks it's going to be the big needle. Poor darling.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278 +2 252

Hey Marjorie - sounds like you had a relaxing day. I have used 5/16" exclusively and I'm happy with them. And Shadow is quite...portly. (but we're working on that). good luck with the dosecrease.

you also ask about the difference in3, 4 and 6%. I feel like everything below 10% is LC so I'm not that discriminating and it doesn't seem to make a lick of difference in my big girl's #s. I do notice other kitties are more friable and the 6% makes a big difference. Gabby and Mocha come to mind. Do an experiment - feed the same one all morning and plot your numbers and see what it does for Gracie. Shadow doesn't bounce much and she doesn't have other health issues and those sorts of things are bound to factor in.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278

Marjorie, Feline Future is changing their name to TC Feline and redoing their website , still lots of good info, but some things are temporarily unavailable. They didn't list carbs, surprise. .........sheesh, just went to their site again. Their formula and analysis appear to have changer along with the name.

Anyway , for the old formula I figured less than 1% carbs from the analysis. Go to Tess's condo from yesterday (near the end), Kim asked some questions about Feline Future. I attached a PDF of the calculations i did to figure out the carbs.
 
Re: 10/8 Gracie PMPS 278 +2 252 +4 289

Well..that number is curious and not what I expected. I don't think it can be a food spike...she got some 6% at +2 because she wouldn't eat the 0% but then she ate the 0% at +3. Confusion reigns with my baby girl. Good night all....gonna set alarm to recheck in one hour.
 
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