? 10/7 Ivy amps 399, +3.5 172, +7 88, +9 162, Pmps 273, +3 118 Libre

Staci & Ivy

Staci & Ivy

Member Since 2022
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...pmps-112-1-180-2-246-3-133-5-53-libre.282293/
Good morning,
Bouncing up this am from last 2 cycles of long stretches of Libre blue cycles with some brief dips to Libre “green” (really lower to mid 100s).

We had a Lantus “double dip” yesterday about an hour before pmps. I fed 1 tsp of 9.25% food so she didn’t tank at pmps.

Question: Is it advisable to feed an hour prior to Amps or pmps if they are dropping? (I know you’re really not supposed to feed anything 2 hours before to not be food influenced)
I’m never sure that to do here.

Have a great day everyone. :)
 
Mikanmama said:
Good morning Staci!

As a general rule of thumb, I think we don't feed them 2 hours prior to a preshot test so as to avoid the PS value being food-influenced. But I may not be getting this right, or maybe there are exceptions.
I'll tag @Angela & Cleo and @Bandit's Mom to see if they can chime in.

Hope you and Ivy have a nice, relaxing day! :bighug:
Click to expand...
I am sure you are correct, just not sure if we are just supposed to let them continue to keep dropping at that time. Thanks, Kit! :bighug:
 
Staci --

I wouldn't have fed yesterday at AM +11. However, I would have tested. Ivy was in safe numbers. You don't have any idea if the numbers would have leveled off or not.

A couple of things to factor in to your thinking:
  • If you feed within the 2 hours prior to shot time, the PS test is food influenced. It may give you a false sense of security.
  • At PMPS, you're going to be feeding Ivy which will raise her BG level.
  • Lantus onset is typically at +2 which means that the insulin from the previous cycle is wearing off or is worn off and the new dose won't kick in for a couple of hours. Thus, the food is raising numbers.
All of that said, it can really depend on where the numbers are. If Ivy is at 40, definitely feed her regardless of when you see that low of a number. It can also help to remember that a green pre-shot isn't necessarily dangerous. Once a cat is better regulated, shooting numbers under 100 is likely to yield a flat, green cycle. (Take a look at Smudge's spreadsheet as an example.)
 
Feeding after nadir for many cats will tend to put the brakes on whatever duration you may have left. Remember too that with a double dip, you’ll see the cat reach nadir in the cycle, numbers go up, then they come back down a little into preshot, but not as low as the nadir was. Seeing that double dip, vs thinking like you did yesterday that she was having a late nadir helps you understand what the previous cycle indicates to give you confidence in the next shot.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Staci --

I wouldn't have fed yesterday at AM +11. However, I would have tested. Ivy was in safe numbers. You don't have any idea if the numbers would have leveled off or not.

A couple of things to factor in to your thinking:
  • If you feed within the 2 hours prior to shot time, the PS test is food influenced. It may give you a false sense of security.
  • At PMPS, you're going to be feeding Ivy which will raise her BG level.
  • Lantus onset is typically at +2 which means that the insulin from the previous cycle is wearing off or is worn off and the new dose won't kick in for a couple of hours. Thus, the food is raising numbers.
All of that said, it can really depend on where the numbers are. If Ivy is at 40, definitely feed her regardless of when you see that low of a number. It can also help to remember that a green pre-shot isn't necessarily dangerous. Once a cat is better regulated, shooting numbers under 100 is likely to yield a flat, green cycle. (Take a look at Smudge's spreadsheet as an example.)
Click to expand...
Thank you, Sienne. This is why I asked. For next time. Still learning. So much to understand :bighug:
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Feeding after nadir for many cats will tend to put the brakes on whatever duration you may have left. Remember too that with a double dip, you’ll see the cat reach nadir in the cycle, numbers go up, then they come back down a little into preshot, but not as low as the nadir was. Seeing that double dip, vs thinking like you did yesterday that she was having a late nadir helps you understand what the previous cycle indicates to give you confidence in the next shot.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Christie. I didn’t understand that it was a double dip and what that meant. I was just worried she was dropping and would be too low to shoot in an hour.
I will try to remember this the next time, which I’m sure will be quite soon :bighug:
 
You’re welcome :). Perhaps a little homework for you this weekend - look back on Ivy’s SS and where you see a double dip having happened then see how the next cycle went.
 
+3 213 and dropping.
Ivy’s cycles are becoming very regular and that if she’s higher at pre-shot by onset she’s dropping much lower than where she began the cycle.
Of course then she bounces pretty high after she hits a low Nadir.

I guess that’s pretty normal. We’ll see how low she wants to go today.
Feeding 1 to 2 tsp of 9.25% at +1,2,3.
 
Not all high numbers are from bounces, sometimes all you are seeing is the natural rise that happens at the end of the cycle and/or food bumps.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Not all high numbers are from bounces, sometimes all you are seeing is the natural rise that happens at the end of the cycle and/or food bumps.
Click to expand...
Do you think she’s not bouncing from these lower numbers she’s seeing?
I thought she bounced up after spending time in lower for her numbers.
I don’t think she really gets a big good bump at all. (I probably have no clue).
I did look at her SS and it seems when she does this double dip, she continues to go lower into the next cycle (typically at pmps).
Is that what you are seeing on her SS?
 
The reason I mentioned looking at some of the patterns with the double dip is that I believe I have seen some past posts in the past where you were concerned about what dose to give, since you were finding an apparent drop via the Libre. For example on Aug 22nd where in your post you were worried about what shot to give at pm. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...2-pmps-241-1-400-pm-dose.280749/#post-3096899

I would view that cycle differently than if she were progressively coming down to preshot where the nadir is close to or at preshot.

Yes, she does her fair share of bouncing, I was just pointing out that not all high numbers are considered automatically as bouncing, you need to see how the cycle(s) play out. I believe I mentioned this before, but not all cycles will look the same, and I tend to find it helpful to look at the bg cycles over a period of several days to see what the waves of action are.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
The reason I mentioned looking at some of the patterns with the double dip is that I believe I have seen some past posts in the past where you were concerned about what dose to give, since you were finding an apparent drop via the Libre. For example on Aug 22nd where in your post you were worried about what shot to give at pm. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...2-pmps-241-1-400-pm-dose.280749/#post-3096899

I would view that cycle differently than if she were progressively coming down to preshot where the nadir is close to or at preshot.

Yes, she does her fair share of bouncing, I was just pointing out that not all high numbers are considered automatically as bouncing, you need to see how the cycle(s) play out. I believe I mentioned this before, but not all cycles will look the same, and I tend to find it helpful to look at the bg cycles over a period of several days to see what the waves of action are.
Click to expand...
I do try to study her SS to try to understand what is going on and what may happen based on her past. It’s difficult to understand some of what I see. I assume with time you get more used to what you see. Thanks for explaining more of this. :)
 
Admittedly with the multiple data points that the Libre offers, it’s hard to see the forest for the trees ;). Which is why I think trying to watch for the trends over several days vs. just one cycle to another becomes helpful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top