10/5Doogle PMPS317+3 217+6 106+7 86+13 40+13.5 98

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Donna & Doogle

Donna & Doogle

Member Since 2011
Last Condo on 10/3 http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105683&p=1122357#p1122357

Sorry I havent updated but I have been so pissed with myself since 10/3. Doogle was 65@+9 after AMPS and he was hungry. But I didnt want to feed him any FF that would up his numbers because they had been so good the last 5 days or so. So I opened a can of chicken and gave it to him (not thinking anything of it). Well we go to check Doogle at PMPS and he was HI!! I was shocked!!!! So I went and looked at the ingredients on the can and I didnt know it had food starch in it! So I felt like utter crap for doing that to him. It was all my fault. Now ever since then his PS numbers have been horrible and he hasnt been back in the greens since 10/3. Now also on 10/3 his shot was delayed 2 hours because he was surfing in the 60-70s and I was not comfortable shooting 3.5u that low ( should have though). I went with my gut. So I know I depleted some of his depot too. Now I cant get him back to those numbers. I would think he would have replenished his depot by now and he didnt bounce most of time when he was getting those great greens. So we raised his insulin to 3.75 last night (due to the higher numbers and his history with DKA). He is getting ok nadirs but then jumps up after. All he is eating is FF pates or chunky chicken. I have given him turkey breast that I bought and boiled up as treats in between. We did stop the antibiotics he was on for his teeth (they were just in case he had an infection from scraping his gums) because it was impossible to get it down him (its Clindacure and it taste horrible). He was getting it twice a day after his cleaning (which was on 9/26). I really dont know what is going on? Am I just impatient after only 2 shots at 3.75u? I would hate to put him to 4u. He doesnt seem sick at all and was tested for a UTI when he got his cleaning and it was negative. Did I screw him up???? Do I need to go back down and start over? Or should I think about changing over to Levimer (I have read that some cats do better on it). Its been a year since he has been on Lantus now and has never really gotten regulated. I need some advice on what to do.
 
Re: 10/5 AMPS 338+3 180+4.5 136+6 108+7.5 210+9.25 285 Advic

Ugh on that canned chicken with starch in it. That's the stuff we eat? Yuck! Sorry about the resulting blacks.

Some thoughts on Doogle's dose. Remember that Lantus dosing is based on the nadir. Doogle was getting some very nice nadir's - he did get to 50 on 3.5U on the 3rd. That would have told me to hold the dose. BTW - the PMPS shot is missing on the SS, so not sure what you shot that night. I think that black was a combo of the starch he ate, the delay and a bounce from the night before and day of greens. Your SS says you had a partial fur shot on the 1st, and the results of that can be seen in later cycles as well. I think it all came together to get that ugly number. Following that, he went from Hi to 213 in 3 hours which is an amazing drop, and probably caused the bounce for the next morning. But Doogle did make it down nicely to blues that PM cycle and almost made green today.

Now you could be seeing some NDW from the dose increase. Going forward, I'd put on the patience pants for the 3.75U dose. I'd probably even give it more than 6 cycles because you were seeing numbers in the 50's in the previous dose.

I don't think going down and starting over is the answer. I've seen caregivers do that, and inevitably the cat comes back up in dose and often higher than they were before going down. Going down allows glucose toxicity to set in if you end up in flat high numbers again. Also not a good idea due to Doogle's DKA history.

The question of Levemir is a good one. I just made the switch a little over 3 weeks ago. Neko is also a bouncy cat, although she mostly bounces to just pink now. What I've seen so far is that she is slightly flatter and doesn't seem to have as much steep drops which can also cause bounces. But saying that, ECID and Lev cats can still bounce too. I still see pinks, maybe a bit less. Take a look at JD and Tess's SS. The main reason I switched is that Neko was driving me crazy, bouncing during the day and dropping at night. I was hoping I could change that. As it turns out - no such luck. The later onset and later nadir definitely breaks up my sleep more and were one reason I delayed trying Lev. And I'm in the process of relearning what Neko's patterns look like. It's early days yet, but so far I think the Lev is better for Neko and worse for me. Maybe in time when I get a better idea of what Neko looks like on Lev will things improve for me.
 
Re: 10/5 PMPS 317 Advice Please

Thanks Wendy! Duhhhh.....I was so upset I just forgot to put it in...sorry. I guess you are right. I did see a lower PS tonight than we have seen. He doesnt have ketones at least. I guess my patience is getting thinner these days in my older age. I am going to hold this dose for more than 6 cycles (as you can tell he was on 3.5u for awhile). I did convince the DH to start shooting more on the flank than closer to the spine or shoulder (just read it adsorbs better there). I have just read and seen alot of people praise Levimer after not being able to regulate well with Lantus. Thank you so much for your help! I dont get alot of people looking at my condos since he doesnt warrant any real attention. I have been doing this for a year now and I know all the ins and outs. So sometimes I forget to post or to embarrassed to post after making a stupid mistake like I did (I felt horrible all night long). Hopefully we can at least get back to a more normal am shot soon.
 
Re: 10/5 PMPS 317 Advice Please

Maybe part of tomorrow's condo you should post the Levemir question to see what people say. There are a few of us here now, and probably all with different reasons for switching. I've heard of some bouncy cats getting flatter, and some not. It's the sort of thing you won't really know until you try. Insulin is cheaper in Canada, so it's easier to call it an experiment and not be too worried if it fails.

I hold my doses for longer than 6 cycles too, but since Neko is an acrocat, I'm not trying to heal her pancreas, but rather keep her in nice but safe numbers.

And thank goodness for no ketones!
 
Re: 10/5 PMPS 317 Advice Please

I think Wendy's observations about dose and nadir are well stated. It helps me to think in terms of this question: "Are Gabby's nadirs in the range where I want them to be?" That helps me to make decisions about what to do with her dose.

A strategy you can use with either Lantus or Lev is to reduce the dose after 3 drops in BG into the 40 - 50 range. This is a bit more aggressive but you're very good about testing. It will also encourage holding the dose a bit longer.

As for Lev, Marje has had good success with Lev. When Barb switched Checkers to Lev, it made little difference. Like with most things with our kitties, it's an ECID thing. The nadir with Lev is later. If that works for your schedule, it may be worth considering. Other than the later nadir, the protocol is the same. FWIW, I've considered switching Gabby but the later nadir would not work as well for my schedule.

(You might want to add Doogle's name to your subject line!!)
 
Re: 10/5 Doogle PMPS 317+3 217+6 106+7 86+13 40

Well I know you are supposed to feed before a shot, but I think this is an exeption....LOL. I told the DH he should have gotten another test in before he came to bed early this morning after getting an 86 but he didnt. Doogle was fed at +7 and the DH came to bed at +9, so that may have given us an indication of this 40 at PS. So guess Doogle is telling me that its time to go back to the 3.5u and his depot is full. Maybe he didnt like me worrying also. So I fed him a MC and I will test in 15-20 mins. There is no telling to be honest how low he went before now. I know this is depleting his depot again which is going to start a whole new cycle. I will see how he bounces and decide if I shoot through it or not. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/5 Doogle PMPS 317+3 217+6 106+7 86+13 40+13.5 98

Well 30 mins later and we are up to 98. Should I wait a couple of hours to give him as shot or wait till he is up higher to do it?
 
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