chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Will be doing a blood glucose curve today at my vets request. He's eating wet food again; guess I was right, he only seems to want dry food after he bounces.
10/5, Sam, AMPS: 194, +1 173, +3 119, +5 101, +7 139, +9 144, +11 108, PMPS 101.
- Thread starter chuckstables
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chuckstables
Member Since 2022
My vet had wanted every 2 hours for 14 for some reason, so that's what I'll be doing I guess. I actually took his blood sugar one hour after his dose; his blood sugar had already dropped by 18 points.
Glad to see you are able to monitor him today. That lower number at +1 might just mean his numbers have been sliding down all night, and he's breaking the bounce already.
The fact that he only wanted to eat dry yesterday may be tied to how he went lower the night before. He's learned that the higher carb dry food makes him feel better when his numbers are low.
The fact that he only wanted to eat dry yesterday may be tied to how he went lower the night before. He's learned that the higher carb dry food makes him feel better when his numbers are low.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
That's what I was thinking too. He's down to 117 last test, he's eating wet food again, haven't given him any dry today. Like historically for about 3 weeks he's been having almost no dry food per day. Same thing the first day I started testing; he would only eat dry. He won't eat wet food if he bounces.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
He's now at 101 at +5.
I see he's going back up a bit. What this tells me is that for the moment, you keep this dose. Especially if he decides to keep low carb wet on the menu.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Great, thanks for your help. I still have another few tests I need to do, so I'll do those and keep the dose as is. I am slightly concerned about where he's going to be after his nighttime dose. His daytime numbers seem to be high sometimes; but his nighttime numbers get low it seems. Guess it depends on where he is pre shot. He had a can of friskies chicken pate today, along with a little bit of chicken and maybe 10-15 pellets of dry food as a snack (and three low carb treats). He'll likely have another half can before his second dose.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Next test; he's now 144, only up 5 points from 2 hours ago (closer to 2 hours and 15 minutes but still).
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Hey; he's back down to a 108 during his last one (one hour before testing). Any ideas?
Some cats do what we call a Lantus double dip, where they go down a little bit at the end of the cycle. Let's see what he does by PMPS time.
How much can you monitor tonight?
How much can you monitor tonight?
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
As much as need be until about 3-4 am. I barely sleep as is, I can stay up. I work from home at 10:05 AM PST tmrw (I live in Metro Vancouver in BC, Canada). It's currently 9:20 pm. I'll give him a PMPS reading; that'll be in 40 minutes, would you mind being around to let me know what to do based on his reading? If not that's totally fine; you've been amazing.
Keep in mind I fed him around +5 hours, he hasn't had much since then. He'd probably half another third or half a can at this point. Should I start feeding him now? It's the friskies chicken pate (or purina proplan DM pate, whichever is better, probably firskies due to the higher carbs at this point).
I will try to check in about 20 minutes from now. Do NOT feed until your PMPS test. Otherwise his PS number will be influenced by food. For future, it's OK to feed until about 2 hours before the preshot test.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
I fed him 30 minutes prior to his PMPS test. His PMPS test was 101; what do you think? He had maybe 1/3rd a can of low carb wet food.
How long before the 101 did he eat? With SLGS, you don't shoot if they are below 90 at preshot time. A 1/3 of a can within the last 1/2 hour could easily bump his numbers from below 90 to 101. In which case it wouldn't be safe to shoot.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
He had maybe like 1/3 of a can of almost zero percent wet food 25 minutes prior to his shot; purina proplan DM pate. It is at most 3% carbs. 4 bucks a can.
So you have three options. One is to skip insulin tonight and resume tomorrow morning at whatever time is convenient for you Option 2 is to wait 20 minutes and retest, and see if he's going up and decide then what to do. The third option is a reduced dose tonight, but that will still requite some monitoring. Possibly late with him trending down.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Should I give a bit of dry food to raise his blood sugar? I could also try just 2 units tonight and see how he does. I'd like to keep him on 2.25 otherwiese I feel my vet will be pissed.
Did you read the three options above? None of them involve feeding right now.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
I did, he historically eats more than he has today though (typically 2 5.5 oz cans of friskies, these days it's 1-1.5 cans over the last week since I started adjusting his dose). What dose would you suggest giving then assuming he doesn't test up within 20 minutes? I had thought that a low carb wet food wouldn't impact his blood sugar 20 minutes before, thought it took a couple hours for him to start digesting it, it's why I gave it to him before (as he was begging me for food).
Also; how would you suggest I deal with him not eating as much as he was when he was on 1/3rd dry food? I've transitioned him off; he just doesn't seem to enjoy it as much sometimes. He's highly food motivated, hard to see him beg me all day for dry food and not give him any.
Doing my best over here....
You don't want to artificially raise his blood sugar with food at this point. Because that increase will wear off once the food is worn off. And then you'll be left with the lower numbers he'd have been without the food.
If you are waiting 20 minutes, that is without food. If he goes down some more, I would suggest either skipping, or a one time much lower dose, like 1 unit. You would go back to 2.25 units in the morning, unless he goes under 90 this night.
If you are waiting 20 minutes, that is without food. If he goes down some more, I would suggest either skipping, or a one time much lower dose, like 1 unit. You would go back to 2.25 units in the morning, unless he goes under 90 this night.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Sounds good. It's just tough. I'm new to this, I don't know what I'm doing. Please kinda keep that in mind; I'm not trying to be difficult. All I see is my little pocket cat that I had since I was 15 begging me for food and not okay.
I'll retest shortly. If he's still lower I'll give 1 unit as per your instructions. Makes sense why you wouldn't want to artifically raise his blood sugar. Keep in mind all of this is totally against what my vet has told me; it's why i'm super hesistant to listen to you guys. You've been right every time; but everyone I know tells me to stop worrying and listen to the vet. I know they're wrong; but it isn't easy.
Do you have any idea how many calories he was getting on dry food vs. how much he's getting on wet food now? We don't want him losing weight. The other thing to consider is that when cats are much better regulated (today was an awesome cycle!), his body doesn't need as many calories as when he was unregulated.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Probably about 40% dry food and 60% wet? The vet says he is overweight now; he gained 0.5 kg's over 1 month. He's now 13 lbs apparently, so he has weight to lose. In august he was 9.4 lbs; that was at diagnosis. For a few months he was almost purely on dry food. I tried to transition him off of dry food 4-5 weeks ago. 2 weeks ago he was eating pure wet food (95% wet, 5% dry), only recently did he start refusing the wet food and demanding only dry. That's when I started testing cause I thought something was wrong there. He'd alternate between refusing wet food and being fine with it on a 2-3 day cycle. For a bit I thought he had stomach cancer like his brother.
As for now; he was doing fine until the last like 10 days. He was eating like almost 2 cans of 5.5 oz cans of wet food per day, sometimes he'd be more picky and want dry food. But I'd come home from work and he'd be ravenous crying and following me around, so I think he was hypo then as well.
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I'm trying to figure out calories. How many cans of wet food today? I think you said he was getting Friskies? They are around 175-185 calories per 5.5 oz tin. Dry food calories is measured by cup. I'm not sure which one you are feeding, so not sure on the calories. And most people don't measure how much dry food, but rather just make sure the bowl doesn't get empty, so it's harder to calculate how much they are getting.
Sounds like it's OK if he loses a little weight then. If a cat is overweight you want to slowly reduce the amount of calories they are getting. From the Catinfo website, she says one way to calculate a starting goal for calories is: Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
Of course, this differs based on cat metabolism and activity level, but it's a good first approximation. I suspect he was too thin in August and a happy medium might be somewhere around 11? Might be worth asking the vet his idea weight. If it was 11, then the above formula would mean around 220 calories. Or about 1 1/3 can of Friskies.
Sounds like it's OK if he loses a little weight then. If a cat is overweight you want to slowly reduce the amount of calories they are getting. From the Catinfo website, she says one way to calculate a starting goal for calories is: Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
Of course, this differs based on cat metabolism and activity level, but it's a good first approximation. I suspect he was too thin in August and a happy medium might be somewhere around 11? Might be worth asking the vet his idea weight. If it was 11, then the above formula would mean around 220 calories. Or about 1 1/3 can of Friskies.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
In terms of sheer calories? At his peak about 5 weeks ago he was eating half a cup of dry food (605 kcals per cup), plus a can of purina proplan DM (maybe a bit less; he would never eat all of it), that's about 178 kcals per can.
Actually apparently he's 13.2 lbs according to his latest results; just checked. Ideal weight is about 11-12 lbs is what the vet said. He's apparently a norwegian forest cat, long hair, large breed.
Would you suggest I buy a scale to weigh him every few days? He certainly has been pooping less since I switched him to wet food.
If you want I have before photos and after, I can show them to see how much he's gained? Looks like a different breed of cat honestly.
And yes; I measure the amount of dry food I give him down to the pellet at this point.
Actually apparently he's 13.2 lbs according to his latest results; just checked. Ideal weight is about 11-12 lbs is what the vet said. He's apparently a norwegian forest cat, long hair, large breed.
Would you suggest I buy a scale to weigh him every few days? He certainly has been pooping less since I switched him to wet food.
If you want I have before photos and after, I can show them to see how much he's gained? Looks like a different breed of cat honestly.
And yes; I measure the amount of dry food I give him down to the pellet at this point.
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chuckstables
Member Since 2022
His last test was 5.6 as well, that's 40 minutes after his last one (101 mg/dl in US units, same as last one, that's 40 minutes later). I had given him a little bit of wet food maybe 45 minutes ago? Only like maybe 0.25 oz's though (right before I posted, he was still a bit peckish so I gave him like a spoonful more). Just a spoonful. Should I just give him 1 unit tonight?
EDIT: Giving him a token dose of 1 unit, I think it's pretty clear what I need to give right now. Will test +2 and go from there. Thanks Wendy; you're amazing as always.
EDIT: Giving him a token dose of 1 unit, I think it's pretty clear what I need to give right now. Will test +2 and go from there. Thanks Wendy; you're amazing as always.
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I think that reduced dose is a good idea tonight. It will make him higher in the morning, but I'm worried that he'd go too low overnight otherwise.
NFC's are large cats, and wonderful temperaments. Neko was part Maine Coon I think, she was a rescue. i bought a pet/baby scale and weighed her periodically, more often when I was trying to change her weight. She was too large, but that was because of her acromegaly. The vet thought her weight was pretty good but I didn't want her to gain because she had arthritis.
I'd start with a +2 tonight and if it's going up, you can call it a night. Will be interesting to see where he is exactly in the morning.
NFC's are large cats, and wonderful temperaments. Neko was part Maine Coon I think, she was a rescue. i bought a pet/baby scale and weighed her periodically, more often when I was trying to change her weight. She was too large, but that was because of her acromegaly. The vet thought her weight was pretty good but I didn't want her to gain because she had arthritis.
I'd start with a +2 tonight and if it's going up, you can call it a night. Will be interesting to see where he is exactly in the morning.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
I think so as well; I'm curious where he ends up in the morning. He really is a lovely cat; he's been this way since I was a kid. It's why I'm so insanely attached to him. He helped me a lot when I was a teenager, and he's always been my little buddy. He's like a lap dog. We thought he was part maine coone as well honestly. His brother was cool as well, just not as good as sam was to me.
I really can't thank you enough for your patience and help. I hope he's going into remission. It would be a godsend to me at this point. Honestly I'm just more worried my vet will give me crap. She's nice enough; but she doesn't seem to like it being implied that she's not able to care for him as well as I can. Though I get pretty defensive sometimes, so it might just be me misinterpreting it.
If he's down in +2, any suggestions?
The vet doesn't have the right to get after you for keeping your buddy safe. You are home with him, she's not.
If he's down at +2, it'll depend how much. Below 90 earns that reduction down to 2.0 units, and feel free to carb him up. Maybe even some dry food. If it's just a couple points down, then that's just within meter variance and not as much a worry and he could get regular food. If he's down just a little or a lot, I'd still get a later test to make sure he's OK. The depot will control the first part of the cycle, but he should start coming up because of the reduced dose.
I'm tagging Bhooma @Bandit's Mom and Bron @Bron and Sheba (GA) who are in different parts of the world and able to help you if he's down quite a bit at +2.
If he's down at +2, it'll depend how much. Below 90 earns that reduction down to 2.0 units, and feel free to carb him up. Maybe even some dry food. If it's just a couple points down, then that's just within meter variance and not as much a worry and he could get regular food. If he's down just a little or a lot, I'd still get a later test to make sure he's OK. The depot will control the first part of the cycle, but he should start coming up because of the reduced dose.
I'm tagging Bhooma @Bandit's Mom and Bron @Bron and Sheba (GA) who are in different parts of the world and able to help you if he's down quite a bit at +2.
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Thank you,
My experience with vets has been super judgy. My current vet is 100x better than my old one (who basically said i was an idiot who was going to kill sam if i switched from caninsulin, who refused to send the script to my current vet which charged half of what he did), but she still doesn’t like me changing his dose without waiting a week for her to call me back…
It’s frustrating. I just need someone (like you; seriously, god bless you Wendy) who will tell me what to do. You’ve been a godsend.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Just reading through the thread. Have you done the +2 yet?
chuckstables
Member Since 2022
Gave up, he was not having it. I think i kinda did him in with all the testing. He was 266.4 AMPS