10/31 Hyde AM 499 +4 350 +6 420 +6.5 0.1 R +7.5 427 +8.5 369 +9.5 356 +10.5 373 PM 367 +2 385 +288

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Anne & Hyde (GA)

Anne & Hyde (GA)

Member Since 2015
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-30-hyde-amps-398-pmps-hi.146728/

Sorry about dropping off the board last night. After the PMPS of Hi, I was so depressed/tired/demoralized that I went to bed.:banghead::banghead::banghead: Ready to face the day again after a good nights sleep.

thoughts about the R trial -

@Wendy&Neko, @julie & punkin (ga) and @Marje and Gracie - Thanks you for offering to help us through this experiment:)

we usually shoot 5:30 AM and 6 PM Eastern. I was planning on shifting tonight's shot to 6:30 PM to get ready for time change. I am also concerned about Halloween. Sometimes the door bell freaks the furkids out and they all hide upstairs. Hyde is generally the most brave but I don't want her hiding under the bed when I need to test her. Maybe I should wait till Sunday evening when the trick-or-treaters are gone and the time change over. I have lots of test strips and a can of MC and HC and karo if needed.

What do you think about these options?
  1. If her +10 is over 350, shoot 0.1 R and test every hour for 4 hours till the Lantus shot +2?
  2. Do the same but at Lantus PS time?
  3. Other suggestions?
Thanks again for any input/guidance
 
As high as she's been, I think we could also look at her +6 and see if it's high enough to shoot. That would be 11:30am your time, which as I'm looking at the clock, I see is in about 5 minutes. It's pretty likely the 0.1 won't do much, given that she's getting 14u L, but it's good to go through the motions of starting small just in case.

If she's over 300 at any point post-nadir til pmps, you could likely shoot the R.

Can you get another test soon and repost? I'll check back in a few minutes.
 
Good Luck! I hope the R helps- Sending Vines for the experiment and for a peaceful night tonight!
 
I should add, I don't mean for you to go ahead and just shoot, I'm just saying it's a possibility. Let marje or I take a look first to see what's going on. And if you want to wait til tomorrow, we can. Although i doubt the 0.1u will do too much and it would be good to have a 0.25u trial too.

Wendy is going to be out today.
 
So she's at 420? Yes, I think you could go ahead and give 0.1u. I'm "watching" your thread so I'll get notifications when there are posts.

Get a +1 and I'll look back for you then. Marje is going to check in soon.
 
Just checking in....sorry...I was talking to my mom when Julie emailed me.

I agree with Julie that 0.1u is not likely to do much but you never know. I'm sure you know to shoot R in the scruff only right?

Good luck...see you in an hour.
 
And just to sum up, you'll want to get tests on the + hour for the next 4 hours now.

I often found that the most significant change from the R was in the following cycle. So we'll see today how Hyde does and what her response to the R is.
 
I don't usually see much movement st +1 for Gracie. It's usually +2 and +3 and then by +4, it's slowed down.

Paws crossed for a little movement here at +2.

Gotta check my notifications...I had it set up for email notification and it didn't do it.
 
The reason I asked about the iaa is because sometimes cats with iaa can have a longer response to R. Instead of it being in and out in 4 hours, it can linger longer.

Drop of 58 points. that's a nice response.
 
That's still pretty good. You are looking for a 50-100 mg/dL drop over four hours. I've also found that the more you use R at the right times, the more effective it is. In other words, the first several times I used it on Gracie, I didn't see much change but over time, it worked with the lev to bring her overall curve down.
 
very nice! Now the question will be to see what happens next. Will it help to lower tonight's cycle?

This was really pretty perfect. As marje said, it's ideal to see a drop of 50-100 points - that's enough to lower the range to let the L do a better job. As small as that dose was, I think you can use it again when it works for you in a similar situation. Today's cycle looks like the R nadir was about +3 and it caused a drop of about 71 points from +1 (onset) to +3 (nadir).

The main thing to be aware of when you use R is that you need to think ahead about the L nadir and not use R at a time that the nadirs will coincide.

Sandy & Black Kitty used R at both shots and +6 regularly until his iaa broke.

You also wouldn't want to use it if it appears to be a bounce clearing - there's no advantage to causing a faster drop. If a bounce has cleared and bottomed out, and she's still higher than you'd like, you can use it to help move her a little lower again.

I liked using it to prevent a rise at the end of the cycle so that the next cycle started from a lower range. When punkin was past the nadir and rising, but still over 200, I would often use it to just make his blood sugar stay flat.

As you use it, you'll get a feel for what it does in Hyde and when to use it - and when NOT to use it. Sometimes if people use R and it brings the cat down too fast, it'll cause a bounce. Then you can get into a horrible cycle of bouncing high and going low from inappropriate timing or too large of a dose of R.

What are your thoughts on the trial, Anne?
 
I was thinking you already had all the above info and I didn’t want to be redundant. I will add one other thing. It’s helpful, once you’ve used R a few times, to do an R scale for how much you will use when. Of course, it’s just a guideline and circumstances on a specific day might have you changing that but, as an example, if Gracie is below 300 when I want to give R, I’ll usually just use a drop. If she’s in the low 300s, I’ll give 0.05u, and if she’s headed up faster above that, I’ll use 0.1u. Again, sometimes I vary from that depending on what’s going on but it’s a general guideline for when I’m not having to factor in any weird stuff. And as an example as to what I mean by “weird stuff”, I gave her a new supplement yesterday for her IBD only to find it caused her BG to skyrocket into pink. I didn’t want her in pink but didn’t know how long the effects of the supplement would last...but figured it would be longer than the R so I was careful and just gave a drop so I didn’t send her spiraling down. So common sense has to come into play with what is going on. There are some days that I know she’s gotten some big insulin poop out (BIPO or duration issue) and so I won’t give R because I know as soon as she onsets, she’ll come back down on her own.

Let your data be your guide. And we’ll help. :)
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
What are your thoughts on the trial, Anne?
Click to expand...
I was very glad to see her go back down into the pinks and stay out of the reds and blacks. I had a real hard time determining how much I was giving her. We regularly use .5u syringes. I used my cheaters and practiced with colored water but I don't think I can reproduce the shot regularly. It might have been as much as .25u it is so hard to see.

I don't think we should give R at the same shot time as L since the L alone can drop her over 200 points in 3 hours. I am hoping to try it again tomorrow afternoon after the L nadir. Because of the timing, it is not something that I can do on a weekday. DH and I are away from the house 12hrs and maybe when I get enough data, I can shoot the R in the middle of the night.
 
Just checking in to see how you were doing, well done Anne for your first test of R, always a bit scary first time but you you were in safe hands.
 
suki & crystal said:
always a bit scary first time but you you were in safe hands.
Click to expand...
Only thing that was scary is that after the shot, she joined me on the couch and fell asleep into one of those kicky, twitchy sleeps. I was thinking of testing her before +1 but since I had given such a tiny dose, I sat on my hands :nailbiting::nailbiting: and it was just a deep sleep chasing bunnies!

I did get the karo out and made sure that I could get it open, just in case.
 
Anne & Hyde said:
I was very glad to see her go back down into the pinks and stay out of the reds and blacks. I had a real hard time determining how much I was giving her. We regularly use .5u syringes. I used my cheaters and practiced with colored water but I don't think I can reproduce the shot regularly. It might have been as much as .25u it is so hard to see.

I don't think we should give R at the same shot time as L since the L alone can drop her over 200 points in 3 hours. I am hoping to try it again tomorrow afternoon after the L nadir. Because of the timing, it is not something that I can do on a weekday. DH and I are away from the house 12hrs and maybe when I get enough data, I can shoot the R in the middle of the night.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts!

Are you also thinking about increasing the L? It looks to me like she could use an increase to get on top of her. Your choice, of course, that's just my observation.
 
Congrats on your first R trial. It sounds like you got some valuable data. I'm glad Hyde was just sleeping. Those kinds of sleep can be scary.
 
You just need to get a few R trials under your belt and you’ll get a sense when you can shoot it and when you should hold off. And there will be days you might give it when you should have held off or not give it when you should have. We all do that! Every one of us.

You did great today!
 
Hi there :cool:

Well, you now have your first R shot under your belt (and beautifully documented on the ss) Well done!
Anne & Hyde said:
I had a real hard time determining how much I was giving her. We regularly use .5u syringes. I used my cheaters and practiced with colored water but I don't think I can reproduce the shot regularly. It might have been as much as .25u it is so hard to see.
Click to expand...
With time and practice you will gain consistency.

I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned however it bears repeating that one must be totally present when dealing with 2 insulin types. You don't want to grab the R thinking its the L and shoot 14u. . .

I wonder where Hyde goes on the overnights. . .
Ideally on the ss 'wide open spaces' containing no data should be avoided.
Looking at Hydes ss, 1/4 of the picture is missing.
Best to have as full a picture as possible, particularly with 2 high dose conditions whose disruptive effects on insulin availability are variable and can't be quantified.
Any chance you can manage an occasional test after PM+6?
 
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