10/30/31 - Squeaky! AMPS=435 +7=263 PMPS 81 Skip +.5=97

[tiffmaxee]

When you shoot low cats tend to have a flat cycle. You would shoot and feed a meal which will prevent a drop too low. That is exactly what Chris was saying.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Chris' post implies that if the BG is high, the insulin will cause a larger drop and if the BG is low, the drop won't be as much.

Exactly....if you shoot in the 300's, the same dose might drop kitty down to the 100's (for a 200'something point drop) but if you shoot at say 70, there may be only a drop of a few points.

A perfect lantus "curve" is basically a straight line

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

When you shoot low cats tend to have a flat cycle. You would shoot and feed a meal which will prevent a drop too low. That is exactly what Chris was saying.

Exactly....if you shoot in the 300's, the same dose might drop kitty down to the 100's (for a 200'something point drop) but if you shoot at say 70, there may be only a drop of a few points.
A perfect lantus "curve" is basically a straight line

Wow! Who knew? This is important information. Now you see, I read that "How to handle low numbers" post and all it talks about is hypoglycemia. It doesn't give the slightest bit of understanding about low numbers -- what is a low number, what is a hypoglycemic number, what is a healthy number, if you shoot an over 50 number what happens etc. This is why when Squeaky went down to 81 and nobody was here to help, I gave him honey. I thought, oooh. Too low. If I shoot it might kill him.

No wonder so many newbies on this board are scared to death to have greens or to shoot if there are greens. You all do a fantastic job AND I think that post needs some improvement.

1. Okay Elise, usually we feed then shoot. Your comment said shoot then feed. Do you mean, test (results are under 100) feed, shoot, feed.

2. Okay I've been told if numbers are lower than 150, stalling (not feeding, test to see if going up or down) is necessary. What am I missing here? Please connect the dots.

3. I am not sure I understand Chris' comment about a perfect lantus curve yet, but help me understand the other stuff first. Since hopefully we will start dealing with more blues and greens soon, hopefully.

THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH

 

[Katherine&Ruby]

Wow! Who knew? This is important information. Now you see, I read that "How to handle low numbers" post and all it talks about is hypoglycemia. It doesn't give the slightest bit of understanding about low numbers -- what is a low number, what is a hypoglycemic number, what is a healthy number, if you shoot an over 50 number what happens etc. This is why when Squeaky went down to 81 and nobody was here to help, I gave him honey. I thought, oooh. Too low. If I shoot it might kill him.

No wonder so many newbies on this board are scared to death to have greens or to shoot if there are greens. You all do a fantastic job AND I think that post needs some improvement.

1. Okay Elise, usually we feed then shoot. Your comment said shoot then feed. Do you mean, test (results are under 100) feed, shoot, feed.

2. Okay I've been told if numbers are lower than 150, stalling (not feeding, test to see if going up or down) is necessary. What am I missing here? Please connect the dots.

3. I am not sure I understand Chris' comment about a perfect lantus curve yet, but help me understand the other stuff first. Since hopefully we will start dealing with more blues and greens soon, hopefully.

THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH

Following this thread!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Your comment said shoot then feed. Do you mean, test (results are under 100) feed, shoot, feed.

No, I think what she meant was after you do the Pre-shot test, you're also going to be feeding then shooting so the food is going to help "prop up" that Pre-shot test. That's why getting the occasional +1 test is important so you can learn what kind of "food bump" your cat usually has. It's always Test/Feed/Shoot...You test to make sure they're high enough for insulin at all, then Feed to make sure they're at least willing to eat and Shoot, usually while their head is in the bowl.

2. Okay I've been told if numbers are lower than 150, stalling (not feeding, test to see if going up or down) is necessary. What am I missing here? Please connect the dots.

The "stall at 150" is for when you're still newer to the sugardance, don't have much experience or data and don't fully understand how your insulin works. As you gain more experience, more test data and learn how your cat responds to both food and insulin, that "stall point" starts to come down until you're shooting lower and lower Pre-shots.

3. I am not sure I understand Chris' comment about a perfect lantus curve yet, but help me understand the other stuff first. Since hopefully we will start dealing with more blues and greens soon, hopefully.

When you first start treatment, you're first curves are going to be kind of all over the place....there usually isn't anything even resembling a "curve" but as your cat becomes better controlled, you'll usually start to see something like this

The PS is at the top left of the smile, the nadir (lowest point) is the bottom of the smile and then as the insulin wears off (or a bounce starts), it climbs back up high by the next PS.

Gradually, the smile "flattens" to something like this:

The PS to nadir to PS isn't as "deep".

Eventually, what you want for a "close to perfect" Lantus curve is more of a grin...with the PS to nadir to PS only varying by a small amount. (Like China's numbers....her cycle, from beginning to end would only move like 20 points)

Make sense?

 

[thebigfuzz]

Love the visual analogy @Chris & China (GA)

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

No, I think what she meant was after you do the Pre-shot test, you're also going to be feeding then shooting so the food is going to help "prop up" that Pre-shot test. That's why getting the occasional +1 test is important so you can learn what kind of "food bump" your cat usually has. It's always Test/Feed/Shoot...You test to make sure they're high enough for insulin at all, then Feed to make sure they're at least willing to eat and Shoot, usually while their head is in the bowl.

The "stall at 150" is for when you're still newer to the sugardance, don't have much experience or data and don't fully understand how your insulin works. As you gain more experience, more test data and learn how your cat responds to both food and insulin, that "stall point" starts to come down until you're shooting lower and lower Pre-shots.

When you first start treatment, you're first curves are going to be kind of all over the place....there usually isn't anything even resembling a "curve" but as your cat becomes better controlled, you'll usually start to see something like this The PS is at the top left of the smile, the nadir (lowest point) is the bottom of the smile and then as the insulin wears off (or a bounce starts), it climbs back up high by the next PS.

Gradually, the smile "flattens" to something like this: The PS to nadir to PS isn't as "deep".

Eventually, what you want for a "close to perfect" Lantus curve is more of a grin...with the PS to nadir to PS only varying by a small amount. (Like China's numbers....her cycle, from beginning to end would only move like 20 points)

Make sense?

Wow what a lovely explanation! I am going to lift all this great information I'm getting and organize it into an article and present it to Wendy for a post for beginners to read.

Okay so something seems to be going amiss here with Squeaky. His curves were flatter 2-1/2 months ago when we started. Now they are way extreme. And this morning I've learned when his numbers go over 600, it's causing vomiting. Yes the bounces are shorter in duration but they are more extreme. @Wendy&Neko -- WENDY, MOVING THIS DISCUSSION TO 11/16/20 THREAD IN LANTUS.

So why does this seem to be getting worse instead of better?

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi Jan. This thread is dated 10/30. It’s confusing. How about starting a new one with today’s date? Thanks.