10/3 Chester's +11.25=86, pmps (delayed) 94, +1=211

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Jaye and Chester

Jaye and Chester

Member Since 2010
He earned (well within a couple of points) a reduction back to 1.25 last night but he's high this morning, maybe due to the HC gravy last night.

I had no clue what to do...which is my perpetual state of mind with this disease.

Ended up giving him a skinny 1.5 although his appetite wasn't great (from last night's food?)

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26448
 
Re: NO CLUE what to DOSE 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301

Hi Jaye,

I'm not a very good advice giver since I'm still in newbie status. If someone doesn't come along before you shoot, I'd go w/what you are more comfortable with for now.

While I'm not 100% on this, but if you were following the protocol, I believe the dose reduction comes when they hit under 50.

When I read that the first time and when Curry was higher (in the 200's) that number scared me...since it was a dramatic drop from 250 to 50. So I understand you wanting to give a tad less insulin and try to even out Chester's numbers a bit. Especially when you see a discrepancy btwn the two meters you are using.

If a more experienced person happens along shortly for you ...and you decide to shoot less insulin....no worries...you will get some feedback on that from others later today and chalk it up to learning about how Chester responds to difference scenarios.

This whole process of trying to figure out how to treat this disease is like a darn roll coaster. I too have my good days and also my very frustrating days.

Hang in there.
 
Re: NO CLUE what to DOSE 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301

Tena and Curry said:
While I'm not 100% on this, but if you were following the protocol, I believe the dose reduction comes when they hit under 50.
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Thanks, Tena, for responding so early on a Sunday morning! (well, early for me...I have no clue what time zone you're in).

I've been told that using a AlphaTrak puts my dose reduction number at 80. He was at 84 when I decided to step in and feed...probably too much.

Gave him a skinny 1.5....a compromise!
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301

Jaye and Chester said:
Failed dose, eh? This site has a name for everything. I'm glad there's a pleasant euphemism for me screwing up a bit.
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I recognized myself in your comment. When I asked my vet if I screwed up w/a dose, his reply was ....its all good information for the future. You can't really screw it up...you can only see how the kitty responds. And then make the adjustment to what you are doing by the results you get. And that seems to change every day or at least a few times a week.

Just my 1 cent thought. (not even a 2 cent thought this morning) :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301

A skinny 1.50 was hard for me to measure, I guess you're much younger with better eyesight.
The bounce is from his liver overreacting to the lower numbers that he's not used to. The high carb food, I think, just made him get there faster. He'll come down. Good luck with the new dose.
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301

I agree with Dyana,

if you were that low there is going to be a panicky liver issue.

Take a look at my spread sheet over the past few days. I've actually highlighted out the two days of hypo numbers and when I suspect the "bounce" should clear by.

Attie is typically a very bouncy boy and I can even see it in the bounce numbers. Right now he is very insulin sensitive coming back from the LO reading. To me he is bouncing from yellow numbers right now because he is sensitized to the drop.

I am not totally disregarding these pink, red, or yellow numbers...but I'm not putting much weight on them until at least 72 hours have passed in this case. I even did 3 cycles of BCS.
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301,+2=369,+5.5=281

Hey, Folks....

I'm not sure that I really gave him a reduction (?) Can a skinny version of a dose be considered a true reduction if it's not a full .25 unit? But I'm wondering if that's actually where Chester belongs, at least for right now. I was joking yesterday when I said I suspect his optimum dose to be 1.3333333333 units but 1.5 is too much (even with snacks) and 1.25 isn't enough (even without snacks). This is exhausting. Thank goodness it is Sunday and I was able to go back to bed!

Chester may be starting a flare-up of his eye herpes thing that he gets occasionally. There is a small abount of goop in the corner of one eye that is usually the precursor to it. I'll have to dig out the gentocin drops and wait to see. It usually clears up in a couple of days, but that could start playing with his bg # as well, I suppose.
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301,+2=369,+5.5=281

As others noted, the bounce isn't from the HC. The virtue of HC gravy is that it's out of the system quickly. If you were feeding dry, it would probably last from last night to this morning, or longer. The higher numbers are due to the liver panicking and dumping glucose and counterregulatory hormones into the bloodstream. The good news is that it looks like the bounce is starting to clear.

If you decrease even by a drop, it's a reduction. Chester didn't really earn a reduction yesterday. There's really no way of knowing whether his numbers would have dropped below 80 if you hadn't fed.
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301,+2=369,+5.5=281

I second what Sienne said. Some of us have had a very hard time maintaining reductions and had to continue dosage until it was really earned and even then it sometimes did not hold. Scary, yes but it does work. Patience As Jojo said, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Hang in there.
 
Re: 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301,+2=369,+4.5=281,+6=250

The worry is what to do tomorrow when I'm at work. Even with food, he got on the edge of the reduction. There's no guarantee that he'll eat when he needs to tomorrow, even with the autofeeder. If I give him the full 1.5 I'm afraid he WILL go too low and with this bounce today, the numbers I'm getting aren't giving an accurate representation of what he will be post-bounce, which could be tomorrow when I'm at work.

Have I mentioned that I hate this disease?
 
Re: QUESTION 10/3/ Chester's AMPS 301,+6=250,+8=105

Question for you learned folks...

Does the 105 I just got at +8 mean he's already clearing the bounce? I offered him a little LC, just to help him keep things rolling, but he was a bit too busy to care for much of it. I'll test again at +9 to make sure we're okay.

Any objections to keeping the dose at a SKINNY 1.5 as I did this morning?

NOTE: I postponed the ReliOn meter comparison and picked up on my old comparisons with the OneTouch Mini....and I'm pretty impressed at this point. I'll always be nervous with anything under 100 on the OT (that it might be way off) so I will keep my AlphaTraks for those times, plus really high times, but otherwise it seems much closer to the AT numbers but at less than half the cost. I still have 150 AT strips, so everything I post will be AT numbers with OT numbers extra when I get them.

editing in: Okay...he's at 84. I'll check at +9.5 to see if he's gone down and "officially" earned his reduction.
editing in again: Yup...he's earned it. A 72 on the the AlphaTrak. I have to able to leave him tomorrow (not to mention sleep tonight) feeling somewhat safe that he'll survive the day. Today he had the option of food, didn't really want it too much, and still dropped to low for my comfort level.

Don't like feeding this close to pre-shot but don't feel I had much choice.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.75=86

I probably clouded the issue by giving him a tbsp of HC gravy at +9.5.

I'm thinking I should delay the shot (which he normally gets at in about 45 minutes if he doesn't go up considerably. I'm VEEERRRRYYYY nervous about shooting this number, even with a reduction of 1.25.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

can I ask you a question? This is going to sound rude, it's not meant to be, but I don't know how to word it to not sound that way. I just want to understand... what is your goal for Chester? Is it OTJ? Tight regulation? Regulation?

I think we are making you feel stressed out by assuming that your goal is OTJ or tight regulation, and giving advice that is meant to help Chester get there. It sounds like your goal is maybe not tight regulation, but regulation under renal threshhold (around 230-250). If we can understand where you are trying to get, maybe we can help better without stressing you out.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Nope, not rude at all. THANK YOU for asking because I feel that's where my stress lies and I honestly didn't realize it until you brought it up.

My goal for Chester, at least for right now, is...hmmm...somewhere in between what you've listed, I guess. I would love for him to stay in the 100s with a nod at the 200s if necessary at pre-shot and a nod occasionally at the high greens at nadir. That's all I can handle at the moment without being home to monitor him as much as I would like. His poor ears today have had it. Being in the greens at shot time is way past my comfort level.

I guess the question that now occurs to me is...and I know what you mean about not wanting to sound rude... I know the goal should be OTJ. Should I continue to remain active here if that's not my own goal right now? Going it on my own is particularly frightening, but I don't want to...how do I say this...waste people's time because I know that you all spend an enormous time helping folks like me and I'm extremely grateful for that. But I don't want to step on toes if I'm not ready to jump in with both feet quite yet.

I haven't fed him yet. Holding off to test one more time. I don't know what to do.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Oh Jaye....I'm a total newbie here...And Libby's question was a good one.....so we know how to help you to help your Chester.

I remember just 2 months ago starting this journey and needing some time myself to get use to this whole process. While Chester is adjusting to the insulin, you need some time to adjust to dealing with all the changes. That's a given.


Its good that you know what you can handle right now....that will more than likely change over time as you learn more about how Chester will respond...especially since you won't be home during the day.

I would like to think folks here can give support no matter what you goal is w/Chester.

I have to admit that what you just posted in the header are some fabulous numbers....And I also remember that when I first saw those numbers with Curry it scared the you know what out of me.

It kinda funny...today when I was trying to "force" the lower numbers w/Curry I was reminded with a "plate of noodles" that I need to be consistent w/Curry...and keep the insulin dose the same for a period....However, I was wanting the lower numbers to a degree since Curry had successfully surfed them and I was comfortable w/them. Two months ago that wouldn't have been the case.

Glad you are here asking questions....tha't the only way to learn...and to help Chester.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

I'm not one of the ones who is much help around here, I'm one who needs help and I'm mainly a cheerleader. But I will say, based on my measly 3 months experience here, that Libby is asking not in preparation of telling you to go away, but in order to advise you better for YOUR situation. I've seen it said numerous times here that bottom line is YOU have to be comfortable in treating YOUR cat. I totally understand your fear of what might happen while you are work. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be home with Muffin, and there have been times I've not wanted to leave her even for 2 hrs to go do something I've needed to do, so I really cannot imagine how I'd feel if I had to go to work all day and deal with FD too. Everyone here is enormously understanding and caring - about everyone, furry AND fur-less, so please don't think people will stop helping you. You've found FDMB - you never have to do this alone! This is a scary thing to have to learn about, and just because your goal right at this moment may not be OTJ, does not mean that it won't be at some point. It can take time to get comfortable and figure all this out.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Of course you should be active here! The question wasn't meant to suggest you were wasting anyone's time. I suspect we don't ask that question enough and instead, assume either tight regulation or OTJ is everyone's goal. I likewise suspect that dealing with lower numbers is a matter of practice as well as a matter of timing for both the kitty and the bean. I do want to note, though, that the closer to diagnosis a cat is, the better the chances for OTJ. That said, it's another case of ECID and there are cats here who have gone OTJ after 2 years.

Let's see where Chester is at around +11.75 or +12.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Jaye and Chester said:
I guess the question that now occurs to me is...and I know what you mean about not wanting to sound rude... I know the goal should be OTJ. Should I continue to remain active here if that's not my own goal right now? Going it on my own is particularly frightening, but I don't want to...how do I say this...waste people's time because I know that you all spend an enormous time helping folks like me and I'm extremely grateful for that. But I don't want to step on toes if I'm not ready to jump in with both feet quite yet.
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of course not! I have to admit, it makes it a little harder for me to help because I don't really know how to get lowish, flat numbers. I tried to do it with Lucy when I thought she had missed the "window of oppportunity" for OTJ. Apparently that did not fit with Lucy's plans, because when I backed down on the dose she flattened out too high, and when I raised the dose she went green and started bouncing again (in Lucy's case, I'm really glad she insisted on sticking with her agenda instead of mine!). Same with Jazzy, I would love to get her flat in the 100's, but so far I haven't found a dose that will do that. She is good at flat yellow but can't seem to do flat blue.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Sienne and Gabby said:
The question wasn't meant to suggest you were wasting anyone's time. I suspect we don't ask that question enough and instead, assume either tight regulation or OTJ is everyone's goal.
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Yes, I understand Libby's intention in asking it...and it was really appreciated because it crystralized for me a bit why I think I've been so stressed lately...my own little "Ah ha!" moment. But really, I don't want people to feel that I'm fighting the help, either, because I know that can be incredibly frustrating for the person offering the help. It's because of this site that Chester isn't still on a gargantuan dose of 4.5 bid!

I blame it all on my dog! He's diabetic and on NPH...it's been SO easy with him that I've become spoiled! Then I think of the 4 months or so Chester was on Vetsulin and was not being home tested. I thought things were just wonderful with him, too (probably because he didn't freak at getting his shot). Ignorance was truly bliss (and I slept more). Now that I KNOW what's going on...can't help yearning a bit for the 'old days.'

Chester's been diagnosed since Feb of 2010. Not sure whether that's considered a "newly diagnosed cat" around here or not.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Chester is still considered newly diagnosed because it is less than one year. :mrgreen:
I hope things get easier for you.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

((((Jaye)))) I'm amazed at the people here who manage FD and still work (or have a life for that matter.) I'm one of the lucky ones who is old enough to be retired and my DH is willing to help! There are still times when I feel like if I can just get her into safer numbers, I'll be satisfied, then I can cut back on the testing and posting and all the time spent here and ............. I still freak out on the rare occasions that I have to be away and Tess starts to go low. Look at yesterday, I made the poor man drive a second 170 mile round trip to go home and take care of the cat!

You are only seeing those of us here who are obsessed. :? There are many others who get the FD to a manageable state and only post occasionally. They only post occasionally, if the have a problem or question they ask and get help.

We do what we can, no one here has any right to judge what you can handle. And LL wouldn't be the great place it is if anyone did.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

You doing ok Jaye?
I see you shot tonight, pretty greens too :mrgreen:
Lots of support here for you whatever you decide.
It's because of this board and this forum here that my kitty is where he is - still bugging me :lol:
It was stressful, but so worth it. cat_pet_icon
((((hugs)))
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Thanks again for all the support, folks. I'll admit tonight was a bit of a meltdown for me and (sounds like a cop out, I know) but I'm partially attributing it
to lack of sleep. My DH helps but it's a case of "He's not Mommy!"

Finally shot at @ +13 and now he's high :roll: but I'm okay with it right now...he's in his spike (hopefully) and I'll still feel more comfortable checking him through the night.
 
I wish I had checked back with you sooner. You will always be welcome here - no matter what course of action you take, even if it is just manageable regulation. I am also now one of the lucky ones who can spend time with my FD kitty, so many are not. We do the best that we can, take the path that works the best for us and our kitty. It's tough when you work - it was for me when I was working. I can so relate to the meltdowns, and the lack of sleep. Take care - and I hope you guys a have a nice night.
 
Re: HELP! 10/3 Chester's +8=105,+9=84,+9.5=72,+11.25=86

Jaye and Chester said:
Thanks again for all the support, folks. I'll admit tonight was a bit of a meltdown for me and (sounds like a cop out, I know) but I'm partially attributing it so lack of sleep. My DH helps but it's a case of "He's not Mommy!"

Finally shot at @ +13 and now he's high :roll: but I'm okay with it right now...he's in his spike (hopefully) and I'll still feel more comfortable checking him through the night.
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Fatigue is not a cop out Jaye.

If you were parked in a garage and needed to get somewhere...And the gas guage said EMPTY....how far would you get? Had a friend pose that question to me once....

Do what you need to do in order to take care of YOU first. You won't get very far if you are running on fumes. Baby steps, breathing, and little TLC are in order for you. Then you can deal w/the emotionally and physically demanding part of this journey. And Chester will also reap the rewards.

So go fill up your tank. And make sure Chester isn't taking the car out for a spin and using up all your gas. :mrgreen:

funny-pictures-cat-drives-your-car-when-you-go-to-work.jpg
 
I've been here only a bit longer than you. And I'm gone long hours during the week with work. So what I want for Shadow is flat green numbers so that her pancreas is healing and not so low that I'm freaked out at work about unattended hypos. Someday if she was to decide to go OTJ, great, would love that. But in the meantime, I'm happy where she is. The household is functioning, she's in pretty good shape for an old cat, and I have some sort of "life." My little yapper is a special needs dog, so I understand what a balancing act it takes. I have done my testing, accumulated my data and now Shadow and I are on a schedule that totally works for us.

And you guys will totally get there too and this group will help you and Chester get to that point any way they can.
 
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