10/29 Nelli PMPS 89; 2.25 61; +3 63;

Glad you got the +9 test in to know that she has gone lower for the AMPS , so you'll want to get a test in before you leave to make sure she will be safe and steer if needed.
 
I have a very busy day today... Will be close to home when I am not there.
-Will be juggling Nelli safety by testing. I will b moving business commitments and obligations around if necessary but need to plan this ahead of time- I don’t feel comfortable with having the insight as to what will be unfolding with Nelli. I would greatly appreciate some wisdom filled advice- advice on how often is important to test as I believe Nelli is flirting with sharks
Thanks
 
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In response to your PM asking how to interpret the last two cycles.....

It looks to me like she had a baby bounce yesterday and she’s clearing it. Yay, Nelli!!! Surf those nice mid greens!
 
@Marje and Gracie we are in day seven today. Based upon my understanding of Stickey TR Protocol (“Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.”), she gets a reduction tomorrow?
My only uncertainty is what does normal range mean...what is that?
Thanks-
 
What is confusing to me about Nelli’s numbers today is the +2 1/2 being lower than the 3 & 4? I guess probably all three numbers are basically the same number, right? I am getting ready to go home and do a +6 then I might not be as confused!
Where is the nadir?!?
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
@Marje and Gracie we are in day seven today. Based upon my understanding of Stickey TR Protocol (“Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.”), she gets a reduction tomorrow?
My only uncertainty is what does normal range mean...what is that?
Thanks-
Click to expand...
There are 2 ways to earn a reduction when using a human meter : A) When kitty goes under 50 for newly diagnosed( under one year) or under 40 for a kitty DX over one year ago.
B) when kitty stays in the normal range of all green numbers 50 -80 and stays under 100 overall for one week .

Nelli hasn't earned another reduction yet. I have copied the guidelines for you below .

Long term diabetics - more than one year since diagnosis
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 40 mg/dL for those following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week and following TR.
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
What is confusing to me about Nelli’s numbers today is the +2 1/2 being lower than the 3 & 4? I guess probably all three numbers are basically the same number, right? I am getting ready to go home and do a +6 then I might not be as confused!
Where is the nadir?!?
Click to expand...
Remember, the kitty can change his/her nadir anytime they like. Looks like her onset at +2 was her nadir this cycle so far. Bubba used to nadir at +12 in each cycle. Then his numbers would start to climb back up again and then start to come down again around +8 and then go lowest again at +12. Then the 2nd time he was on insulin, he nadired around +5 -6. Now this rodeo, he seems to nadir early around 3-4.

We are dealing with cats. They rule. :rolleyes: We have guidelines then we have to figure out our own kitties patterns. They like to make it fun for us.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
There are 2 ways to earn a reduction when using a human meter : A) When kitty goes under 50 for newly diagnosed( under one year) or under 40 for a kitty DX over one year ago.
B) when kitty stays in the normal range of all green numbers 50 -80 and stays under 100 overall for one week .

Nelli hasn't earned another reduction yet. I have copied the guidelines for you below .

Long term diabetics - more than one year since diagnosis
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 40 mg/dL for those following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week and following TR.
Click to expand...
Thank you Bobbie- (but) Nelli is not a long term diabetic.
 
@Jill & Alex (GA) under the TR Protocal Stickey what is “numbers in the normal range”, numbers?
I quote:
“...at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range”
Thanks
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Thank you Bobbie- (but) Nelli is not a long term diabetic.
Click to expand...
I thought I saw in your signature today 6/21/17......and that was WITH my glasses on......
So, here are the guidelines for a newly DX FD :


Newly diagnosed diabetics - less than one year since diagnosis
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 50 mg/dL and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week and following TR.
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 90 mg/dL for those following SLGS
 
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Krystina & Nelli said:
@Jill & Alex (GA) under the TR Protocal Stickey what is “numbers in the normal range”, numbers?
I quote:
“...at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range”
Thanks
Click to expand...
That is in the above that I sent in post +19 and post #14. My mistake on your DX date, otherwise all the info is taken right from the stickie : New to the group and scroll down to "Where Can I find" .
 
@Rosie & Bailey ... but look how much juice Nelli is on? This confuses me a little. It is OK with me if she never gets :otj:, simply get regulated :bighug: ... my confusion is when they become regulated that must mean hitting a good does is found and that’s what she will stay with…? Know what I mean jelly bean? he-he
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Anyhow, I am confused. Do I keep Nelli at 4.75 now? The guidelines are somewhat ambiguous to me o_O
Click to expand...
She hasn't yet met the criteria for decreasing the dose if you're following the TR protocol used in this group:
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 50 mg/dL and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week and following TR.
 
No, it's not a set amount of days. If a reduction fails, one would go right back up to the last good dose meaning if numbers trend upwards after the bounce has cleared OR if kitty does not return to numbers like what earned the reduction in the first place OR if one has to try another method because the numbers on both ends of the curve are too high. In the latter situation, one might try manipulating the curve with food.

Here's some reading on manipulating the curve with food: Using Food to Manipulate the Curve.

Time for dinner. I'll check back later to see if you have any more questions.
 
I’m with you Krystina the “ under 100 overall” is a bit ambiguous for me. I like hard numbers, something like “ if 87.3% of the numbers are under 100”. :) I’m often unsure if Scooter has been green enough. Fortunately we have the experienced ones to help us.
 
Jill & Scooter said:
I’m with you Krystina the “ under 100 overall” is a bit ambiguous for me. I like hard numbers, something like “ if 87.3% of the numbers are under 100”. :) I’m often unsure if Scooter has been green enough. Fortunately we have the experienced ones to help us.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I’ve had problems learning- understanding c.l.e.a.r.l.y, some of the data available here to me.
I couldn’t agree with you more... “we have the experienced ones to help”
Some of these “treasured ones”, we've both been touched by- really want us to put our “thinking caps on” and learn.
I find it hard sometimes to discern, all :-|
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
She hasn't yet met the criteria for decreasing the dose if you're following the TR protocol used in this group:
  • reduction *earned* after a single drop below 50 mg/dL and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
  • reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week and following TR.
Click to expand...
@Jill & Alex (GA), this is what I read (following) TR protocol regarding reduction- nothing stating “range of a healthy cat (50-80 mg/dL.)”.
  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
I don’t pay attention to the last bullet in “reducing the dose”...
  • Since 2006 we've encouraged those practicing Tight Regulation to attempt reducing the dose from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely. During a two week OTJ trial, you want to see mostly green numbers (under 100) with only a few random blue numbers between 100 - 120 to help ensure a strong remission. Most kitties will be in the range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL).
-Because this does not apply to where Nelli is at regarding dose reductions?
Therefore I do not tie the two together?
I now know they are tied...
Forgive me but, furthermore, the information I had o_O coming in to this forum, was that normal range is between 50 and 150?
It is confusing and I can’t imagine, confusing only to me?
Thanks :)
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
How in the heck is Bailey doin?!?
Click to expand...
Bailey's fine. We're still on the road so I skipped her dose tonight, and gave her reduced doses the last 3 cycles. Better safe than sorry. Hate those pinks, abnd hoping we get through with no reds
I think what matters is not the dose as much, but the fact that Nellie's body is getting used to normal BG numbers. As see earns reductions, she will get closer to remission. I love seeing all blues and greens. Bailey's. Body still fights it, and she bounces.
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Forgive me but, furthermore, the information I had o_O coming in to this forum, was that normal range is between 50 and 150?
It is confusing and I can’t imagine, confusing only to me?
Thanks :)
Click to expand...
I'm sorry you're confused. There are so many things to become confused about. Some breeze through the TR protocol without problems. Others, not so much. We all (including those who have put this all together for others) do the best we can. It's difficult at best when we're all coming from different backgrounds. Many have stayed on to help others over these bumps.

I have to admit, now I'm confused by your comments and am not sure how to reply because of that confusion, but I'll give it a shot.

I don't know of anything that states the "normal" BG range is 50 to 150 mg/dL. The "normal range" is commonly stated as 50 - 120 mg/dL when using a meter calibrated for humans when following the TR Protocol.

In the TR Protocol used in this forum, the range of a healthy cat is stated as 50 - 80 mg/dL on a meter calibrated for humans. 50 - 80 mg/dL is the target range... under 100 mg/dL overall.

If you're looking for every sentence in a particular sticky to repeat and/or include every condition, inclusion, exclusion, or exception... no, the stickys are not written that way.

Not sure if I answered your questions or not, but I tried.
 
Krystina

Have you ever read Tilly’s web page which is linked in the sticky on the TR protocol? The first sentence under “4. Reducing the dose” states:

When the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week, attempt to reduce the dose.
Click to expand...

I don’t really see that the two paragraphs you quoted are “tied”. One references how reductions are earned and the other references what we look at in terms of dosing before a cat starts an OTJ trial.

At any rate, right now, Nelli has seen too much blue in the last seven days to have earned a reduction. Patience, Grasshopper :p
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
coming in to this forum, was that normal range is between 50 and 150
Click to expand...
I think maybe what you are thinking is the range when you first arrive to the forum. We tell peeps 50 is the reduction number and don't shot under 150 until you have enough data to know how your kitty responds to shooting lower numbers. I bet this is where your confusion is as to what pertains to the "earning reductions" protocol.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Krystina

Have you ever read Tilly’s web page which is linked in the sticky on the TR protocol? The first sentence under “4. Reducing the dose” states:



I don’t really see that the two paragraphs you quoted are “tied”. One references how reductions are earned and the other references what we look at in terms of dosing before a cat starts an OTJ trial.

At any rate, right now, Nelli has seen too much blue in the last seven days to have earned a reduction. Patience, Grasshopper :p
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
We all (including those who have put this all together for others) do the best we can. It's difficult at best when we're all coming from different backgrounds. Many have stayed on to help others over these bumps.
Click to expand...
@Jill & Alex (GA) first of all I want to thank you and everyone else that has stayed on to help all of us active FD members. Ive never lost sight or taken for granted the wealth of expertise... the selfless caring about Nelli that flows in abundance :bighug:. I am graciously thankful, I am, truly.
Nelli absolutely would not still be around if it wasn’t for this board.
You did answer my questions, I do understand now, thanks :)
I wanted to let you know I made a mistake, meant to write “normal range between 50 and 120” Not 50 and 150 o_O.
Thanks again to you and to all. I hope you have an excellent day.
Krystina
 
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