10/28/14 Oz PMPS 191 wondering what to do

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ian & Oz

Ian & Oz

Member Since 2014
Hello,
Oz just tested at 158 which is great but stalling right now to test again at 9:30 (30 minutes after shot time).
Wondering if it's ok to give his shot if he's still under 200, if I do i'll have to test him often I would think?

Ian
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Did you feed him yet? When you stall, you don't want to feed. You have the right idea....retest him in about 20/30 mins. This could be a dropping number or it could be a second lantus dip. We usually want to be very careful with new members and shooting dropping numbers as opposed to shooting a second lantus dip. Since we don't know which it is, we should use caution.

Options:
--stall, test every 20-30 mins without feeding and when he's on the rise, shoot his normal dose (we don't typically stall and shoot a reduced dose). Get a +1 and +2 to start.

--shoot a reduced dose; if you do this, you will still need to test and stay on top of the numbers because the depot often will have the cycle looking the same as if you shot the full dose; often times, the effects of a reduced dose are seen late in the cycle or in the next cycle; If you select this option, get a +1 and +2 to start.

--skip

Normally if we advise you to shoot, we stay with you; however, tomorrow is my work day and so I have to be in bed shortly.

Thoughts? I'll be back in a moment to check on you. You can take the 911 down.
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Hi Marje,
We're stalling right now for another 8 minutes & then will test again, he hasn't had any food.
How long can you stall, isn't an hour the longest you want to stall?If you stall for say an hour what do you do with the next regular shot time which would be 9:00 am.
Wondering whether to give reduced dose.

Thank You
Ian
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Ian

Great job on not feeding!!!

There is no hard and fast rule to how long you can stall. Most members don't stall more than 2 hours because it makes it harder for them to get back on schedule. Usually Getting Back on Schedule is done by shooting early 15 mins each cycle until you are at your normal shot time or 30 mins once a day. Sometimes if they are really high at the next shot, you can shoot an hour early and get some insulin in them and put you closer to your normal shot time.

While I am not a big fan of shooting reduced doses because of the depot, many do. However, if you stall more than 30 mins from your normal shot time, I probably wouldn't give a reduced dose since a late shot acts like a dose reduction. It doesn't mean you can't.....you certainly can. But I would encourage you then to be very diligent in testing. And remember... I'm not sure who would be around to help you with low numbers.

Let's see where he is when you test, k?
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Hi Marje,
He just tested at 191 so really close to 200, is that close enough for a shot?
Ian
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Yes....if you can stay up to monitor him, you can shoot his normal dose.

I'll be up for a couple hours and will check in. Pls get a +1 to start. Once you shoot, we can discuss tomorrows shot.
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS womdering what to do

Ok, we're going to give a full dose & monitor.
Thank you Very much!!
Ian
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz 158 PMPS wondering what to do

You're welcome. When you get w chance, can you update subject line to read PMPS 191?

See you at +1.
 
Re: 10/28/14 Oz PMPS 191

I changed the heading & tried to fix some spelling, I was in a hurry/semi panic.
After giving him his shot we fed him as usual, his food was taken up at 7:00 like we normally do two hours before shot time.

Ian
 
Ok...just surfing. Please give him a couple tsp of his regular food and get a +2. It might be a busy night.

Thanks for updating the subject line.

BTW, we don't have a no shoot number" in this forum as Health does (theirs is 200). Normally, we say new members can shoot any number above 150 but for any number below or when they first shoot green, they should have an experienced member with them.

Good job...see you at +2!
 
Do you mean give a couple tsp of food now or before the +2 test?
He didn't finish his food that long ago.
Ian
 
I'd give it to him now if he will eat. He didn't get a food spike. We'd like to see him get a bit of a food spike. When he onsets at +2, he will likely come down. So we prepare for that by having a little food on board.
 
At 11:35 he was at 147, so dropping fairly quickly?
What do I do if he tests under 200 in the morning.
I have to wait 15 minutes to get back half of the 30 minutes from tonight, if i have to stall do I add that to the 15 minutes & does that keep putting you farther behind?

Ian
 
Yes, on set means when the insulin begins to take eeffect.

Typing on a nook, sorry for typos!

So you shot a 191 and 2 hrs later he is 147 is that right?
 
One thing at a time :-D I'd give him a little more food if he will eat it.

First, the +2 indicates this will be an active cycle. Were you able to get him to eat and do think he'd eat a few more tsps?

Yes...onset is when the insulin starts working. Three important things for each caregiver to know for their cat: onset, nadir, and duration. Nadir is the lowest number in the cycle or when the peak action of the insulin is and duration is how long the insulin lasts in a cycle. Sometimes duration is less than 12 hours, sometimes it is more.

If he is above 150 in the morning and you only stalled 30 mins tonight, just shoot on time. Usually 30 mins early or late is not a problem as long as you don't do it every cycle.

Let me post this for you and then we can discuss the morning.
 
Ok, so +2 indicates it will be an active cycle because the 147 was a good amount lower than the previous 183 is that correct?
If he is at say 158 again in the morning & I give him the full dose I'm guessing his levels will drop pretty quickly,how often do you think I'll need to test him tomorrow if that happens?
How long should I keep testing him tonight?
Ian
 
Yes and there is a good chart on the new to the Group Sticky but I can't copy it on my iPad for some reason. But if the +2 is similar to the PS, you should expect an active cycle.

It's not possible to predict where he will go in the morning if he is 158. He might start bouncing and go straight up. If you post for help if he's down, someone can walk you through it.

I've got to get to bed but Julie is going to take over now for me. How long you test depends on what he does. You don't want to go to bed with him dropping.

Ok...I'm off and Julie will pop on. Remember food is your friend!
 
Hi Julie,
He was actually at 158 & I waited 30 mins. retested & he was at 191 & yeah at +2 he was at 147.
i just gave him two more tsp of food.
Wondering how often i should be testing him tonight & is there a clear indication when his levels start to rise?
When the numbers go up is that a safe indication that the lowest part of the cycle is over?
Ian
 
You have the right idea. You'll know he's past the nadir (lowest point of the cycle) when he starts to go up.

Can you check him again in another hour? For me that's 11:30pm - I'm not sure where you're located and how late that is for you. I'll stay up with you. Wendy might also be on and checking in.
 
ah, i just saw you're in texas. so this is super late for you. Can you manage another hour? If not, i'd open a new can of his regular low carb and leave the entire thing out for him. As we get more information on him, you won't need to do that, but at this point if you can't stay up you want to leave him plenty of food.
 
Absolutely, I can check him in an hour.
My time right now is 12:24 a.m. I'm on central time.
I gave him two more tsp of food about 7 minutes ago, should I give him some more food before the next test &
will waiting an hour be ok, since his levels seem to be dropping a fair amount?.
Thank you for helping!
Ian
 
sure - i'm happy to stick with you. That's what people do here - that's what others did for me too.

I usually fed punkin 3oz with his shots and another 1.5oz at +3. If he's hungry, you could give him a little more to eat. that'll help smooth out his blood sugar, too.

OK, test him in an hour at :30 and post then. I'll see you then.
 
Hi Julie,
Just took a reading & he's at 131 now.
I tried to give him a few more tsp of food about 1:00 but he didn't eat any of it until maybe 10 minutes ago.
So he's at +4 now & still going lower, what do you suggest?
I usually give them (we have 4 cats total) food around 2 am to last through the night until 9 am, but they mostly eat the food when i give it to them so that has to last them. Oz eats more of it because of being diabetic & being hungry most of the time.

Ian
 
ok, i see his +4/131 on the ss.

Normal numbers are 50-120 using a human glucometer. So it's not necessary to intervene for safety reasons until a cat is under 50. We use the 40's to take action and pull them back up over 50. One imperfect way to decide what *might* happen while you are at sleep or gone to work is to look at how fast a kitty is dropping. They don't drop at a constant points per hour, but from one test to the next you can calculate what's happened, and make some predictions.

So Oz dropped from 191 to 147 in the first 2 hrs - that's roughly 44 points in 2 hrs.
In the next 2 hrs, he dropped from 147 to 131 - that's 16 points.

So he's not dropping quickly at all. I think you're safe to go to bed. As you get more information his patterns will become more obvious. Cats aren't 100% predictable by any means, but most do have patterns that are identifiable.

I think you can go to bed. If you're at all worried, leave him out food.

As far as morning goes, do you shoot and leave for work? what's the morning routine as far as how much after his shot you can test before you leave tomorrow?
 
I should point out that the reason I think you're safe going to bed is because at 131, he'd have to drop 80 points before you had to intervene. Cats typically do their fastest dropping in the earlier part of the cycle, rather than the later part. At 16 points of a drop in the past 2 hours, I really doubt that he'd possibly get below 50 tonight. You can never say never, but i don't think so.
 
For now, I can be here as long as I need to tomorrow.
My concern I was asking Marje about was, if he happens to be at 158 in the morning like he was tonight, she had said the rules here are that I can give him a shot above 150. If he's just slightly above 150 & I give him the shot without waiting 30 mins like I did tonight, I suppose I'll really have to watch his levels tomorrow.

Ian
 
To show on his spreadsheet what happened tonight, I'd stack numbers in the +12/pmps column like this:

12=158
12.5=191

That tells you that at +12 he was 158, and that you waited 30 minutes until he was 191 and that's what you shot. If you'd stalled longer, you could've add a "13=xyz"

Good job sticking with all of it tonight. You did great! You won't have to do this forever, in fact, Oz is having a great response to the insulin. That nice flat cycle you got tonight is perfect.

The main thing with shooting a number lower than you've shot before is to get a +1 and a +2 - you want to make sure that a cat isn't diving. Some do. While Oz dropped by +2, i wouldn't have called it a dive, he just went nice and slowly.

Experienced people will shoot everything over a 50 as long as their cat is eating and they are able to monitor. For now, you're not to that point yet, but if you're around tomorrow, you're probably fine shooting in the 150-ish neighborhood. Here's a post I did recently for someone else about Shooting Low. You want to get to the point where you can do that as soon as possible. You don't need to read it tonight, but if you're faced with the situation in the morning you can look then.

I'm headed for bed. I think you're fine tonight. Sleep well!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top