10/27 Polly AMPS+11.5=88 pmps@12.5=97+2=116+3.5=124

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Marilyn and Sheldon

Marilyn and Sheldon

Member Since 2014
Yesterday

Recap 10/26

276 AMPS
333 +2
303 +4
235 +8.5
239 PMPS
248 +3
190 +9

All's well in Pollywood. Interesting drop while I was at work. Miss Polly's grabbed the living room window spot this afternoon soaking up some fine fall sunshine. The dog's at daycare; I don't go to my friends to fluid her cat for another hour. Will won't be home for an hour and a half. A perfect time of day. Quiet. Just me and sleepy kitties. Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, stretch. Uh, maybe nap time for the bean.

Vines and wishes.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS 222+221+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59

I know, shoot low to stay low. But how low? I have an hour and fifteen minutes 'til shot time. I just gave her some mc cuz she seems to be dropping pretty fast. (and I thought she might start eating the woodwork.)

Testing in 15 minutes (4:45 MDT). These questions may be irrelevant if she comes up enough. But I won't have much time if I need the "2 rising numbers without food."

If she's level or dropping slightly at preshot, (50's) do I plunge the full 10.5 in her? If she's still dropping (unlikely, since I'll bring her up with food).

Since I'm guiding with food, I'm confident she'll come up. But it's food influenced. Even if she's over 70 with "influence" on board, full shot? Over 100, I'm good to go. I think.

(sometimes I long for my flat Polly, yellow Polly. :smile:

I'm home tonight. Have supplies.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59 how low to shoot?

Are you around to test? I will shoot a full dose, anything over 50...as long as Cobb isn't still dropping. But that's just me.
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59 how low to shoot?

We're at 71 with earlier mc on board. No food now. I'll see if she holds through a 30 minute fast and then hope for another 30 minute fast and steady or rising numbers. (mc usually doesn't bring her numbers up; I'm surprised.)

Looks like we're ok. I'll keep the question mark up just in case she gives me a surprise in 30 minutes. She's fully capable of surprises.

Marilyn
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59 how low to shoot?

Polly, way to mess with your mommabean! Time to come up please pretty girl. :mrgreen:

How long from when you fed her MC to shot time? Can you delay shot time so it's two hours after the food? I'm worried about the food influencing the BG enough that you think it's OK to shoot, and then that food wearing off. Oh, and can you stay up and monitor tonight?

Options are (1) to delay until she's up enough to shoot, without influence of food. (2) give a smaller dose tonight. She's got a good sized depot and should be able to handle a one time reduction. However, the AM dose can still influence the evening cycle somewhat. (3) shoot full dose and cross your fingers with lots of HC and strips on hand. She could still bounce from today's lows.
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59 how low to shoot?

Wendy&Neko said:
Polly, way to mess with your mommabean! Time to come up please pretty girl. :mrgreen:

How long from when you fed her MC to shot time? Can you delay shot time so it's two hours after the food? I'm worried about the food influencing the BG enough that you think it's OK to shoot, and then that food wearing off. Oh, and can you stay up and monitor tonight?

Options are (1) to delay until she's up enough to shoot, without influence of food. (2) give a smaller dose tonight. She's got a good sized depot and should be able to handle a one time reduction. However, the AM dose can still influence the evening cycle somewhat. (3) shoot full dose and cross your fingers with lots of HC and strips on hand. She could still bounce from today's lows.
Click to expand...


Her last food (small spoon mc) was at 10.5 (She was 59, a 40 point two hour drop from 8.5)
I can wait 'til 12.5 to shoot.
If she floats at 70 or above, I'll do a full dose, I think. Or maybe 10.0.
Last time we did this, around 10/20, I did a half dose at a 77 pmps and she climbed all night.

Right now I'm just taking this 30 minutes by 30 minutes.

Love my kitty. Love my kitty. Yes, I do love my kitty!

Thanks.

Marilyn
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71 low to sho

Polly has been talking to Clare today on the catvine, I can tell. They're discussing a recent online seminar they took while we were away: How To Throw Your MamaBean a New Curve. This class is one that Clare could probably teach, but she's learning new stuff, and she's having fun with Polly. :evil:

Watch out: Halloween is coming!! :lol:

Hope all's well tonight and that Polly is on an even keel.

Georgette and Clare
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71+11.5=88

Looks good. Will test at pmps, at 12.5. Suspect shooting full dose will be no stress.

Just surprised that the mc food brought her up this much. It usually has no effect if she's dropping. I'm guessing the 59 was near nadir, although pretty late for Polly's nadir, and I should have held off on the food. (Interesting, her night cycle nadir has come later and later...+9-+10.)

Another learning experience.

Thank you.

Marilyn
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71+11.5=88

Higher carb food later in the cycle, when the insulin is waning, has more of an effect than it does earlier in the cycle. OK Polly make it easy, how about an over 100 number.
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71+11.5=88

i would also consider the likelihood of her bouncing after the greens today. that's no doubt part of what you saw on 10/20.

on the other hand, it's you that gets to stay up all night if she doesn't immediately bounce. i sort of suspect she will, though.

on the other other hand - woot to see green! go polly! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59 how low to shoot?

Suzanne & Cobb said:
Are you around to test? I will shoot a full dose, anything over 50...as long as Cobb isn't still dropping. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Suzanne. I went for the big gulp. But at 97 it wasn't that tough a call! Each one of these situations makes me braver! And, of course, I have my heroes on the board to give me courage!

Marilyn
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+7.5=91+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71+11.5=88

julie & punkin (ga) said:
i would also consider the likelihood of her bouncing after the greens today. that's no doubt part of what you saw on 10/20.

on the other hand, it's you that gets to stay up all night if she doesn't immediately bounce. i sort of suspect she will, though.

on the other other hand - woot to see green! go polly! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Thanks, Julie. I'm guessing she'll bounce, too. But, I can't be grumpy about normal numbers. And I have learned a little about her responses. Will learn even more tonight.

Wendy&Neko
Higher carb food later in the cycle, when the insulin is waning, has more of an effect than it does earlier in the cycle. OK Polly make it easy, how about an over 100 number.
Click to expand...

Aha, I learned something. Thanks.
Full dose. She almost obeyed your request. 97.

QUESTION: With 70 as the cut off for acro/iaa kitties, did Polly earn a decrease today with that 59. And if she bounces, do I shoot the 10.5 through the bounce before reducing, if indeed she earned a reduction?

Marilyn
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5

I hear you about liking the flat yellow kitty. :-D But I still LOVE the green! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Liz
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5

Wow...what a day for Polly!!! Congrats on the reducie and lovely surf and nice shootin' tonight, too!! I have no acro experience...I know for a non-acro kitty, if they bounce we can shoot through it then take the reducie at the next dose, but I don't know if the same thing applies to acrocats. Sorry, I know that was absolutely no help at all :oops: !!!

Have a great evening, Marilyn!
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5

I used the 70 cutoff for Neko when I knew we were flying down in dose - a couple of decreases a week. I had suggested 70 as a cautious way to go after SRT. The decision is up to you what you want to do. It seems to me that every time you go to 10.5U, Polly pretty quickly tells you it's too much, but 10U doesn't quite cut the mustard yellow. I wonder if she's one of those kitties that would like .25U changes?

As for shooting through the bounce, I typically didn't because often I wouldn't see the bounce until several hours after I had to make the decision. :roll:

Wishing you a calm surfing evening.
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+8.5=99+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5

I have also been using the 70, like Wendy, when I know we're flying down in dose. I sometimes just have to trust my gut on that. So far, I think I've only let the depot get way too far ahead of me, what... once? Maybe twice? But those few times it was WAY far ahead of me. This last time I was adjusting on the fly, so the depot was constantly adjusting as well. I think I handled it much better this last time... although on this end, it felt like I was flying by the seat of my pants, hanging on for dear life, worrying every minute I stepped out of the house, and freaking out when Matt would text me, "Cobb is at 48." :shock: "Give that cat some of the good stuff!!"

The first flight down in dose is really nervewracking because you want to hold on to those good numbers, so you don't want to decrease too much, but you also want to keep Polly safe, so you want to reduce enough. And the frustrating part is... really... you have to make the call as to what is enough, but not too much. Everyone here can weigh in and give you their thoughts, but when it comes down to it... you're the only holding the syringe and making that dosing decision, and it can be tough, and stressful!

I've wandered enough with my thoughts for tonight. I hope that all doesn't sound as ominous as I think it does. You've got this, Marilyn! And we are all here cheering you and Polly on! :smile:

~Suzanne
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5=97+2=1

Yay Polly!! :mrgreen: That green sure looks lovely! I'm sure you will make the right call on the dose. Congrats on the beautiful numbers!
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5=97+2=1

Sounds like a lovely Monday...beautiful Monday for Polly and some down time with the kitties! I want to do that, too!!!!!! :cry: ;-) Have a wonderful evening, Marilyn!
 
Re: 10/27 Polly AMPS+10.5=59+11=71 +11.5=88 pmps@12.5=97+2=1

i didn't have anyone with SRT experience helping me, and I hadn't ever heard the 70 suggestion. I didn't have any model to follow. I did a lot of reducing in advance - too much, i think. it didn't usually help things and i usually ended up with yellow numbers and going back up in dose. So . . . I'm not sure I have anything to offer, except to echo Suzanne that you can trust what you now about Polly and how she has responded so far.

My gut feeling is that I wouldn't reduce her dose yet because she still has so many higher numbers. Seems like a little longer at a dose that gets her into good numbers would be a good thing. But . . . that said, it's up to you.
 
I have no idea who has any articles about safe numbers as lows…. 70 with an acro can mean several things and acros do not earn reductions because they get down to a certain number in a cycle. If you get a 70 around nadir, you are at a good dose and stay with it.
Acros have diff needs because of their tumor, so you can't apply the rules or guidelines that work for non-acro diabetic cats.
Please do not think that HC food works for all acros as one of my acros would go LOWER if eating HC food because acros usually have perfectly fine and functional pancreas. It has been for this very reason that the usual cutoff for an acro who has not gone for SRT, taken meds, or had surgery, is 100/5.6…. just to be safe.

If your acro has a nice curve, seems regulated, and is getting nadirs just under 100, but rising by shot time, you would stay with the same dose.
If your acro is surfing in the 80s, and not rising, then you have some thinking to do…. it may just be a stall in the GH output, so you can give a partial dose, or skip if you want. Acros can have spells of sputtering where you may end up skipping some shots because the numbers indicate no need for more insulin. Several times, I had to skip a few shots, but once the numbers started moving again, I'd go back to the last dose.

The ss is critical for acro owners because you must become like a weatherman, predicting what will occur in the future and dose accordingly….. kinda like predicting rain or not, and taking your umbrella if you think it's going to rain.

Acros are very resilient and forgiving when it comes to dosing, but best to be safe and stick with numbers closer to 100, not 70.

For IAA only cats, if you want to earn reductions, you need to push the BG into the 40s all the time because it's the only want to beat the antibodies.
 
For IAA only cats, if you want to earn reductions, you need to push the BG into the 40s all the time because it's the only want to beat the antibodies.
Click to expand...

I do not think this is true. And it could be dangerous advice to tell someone to push their cat's BG into the 40s all the time.
BK's SS is proof that a CG does not have to do that to beat the antibodies.
 
Marilyn, like most topics, this is one where you have to know your cat because they are all different. They all react differently to insulin. Polly's growth hormone output may be dripping whereas another acro's may be gushing. Given that she's had the SRT, her growth hormone output is probably slowing down. There is not a one size fits all answer for where the cutoff should be. Sometimes cutting off at 70 works for Cobb. Sometimes I have to let him go a little lower. But I know that at 70 his body is responding to the dose, and a decrease may be in order. Remember, you can always put more insulin in, you cannot take it out.

As you know, Cobb is on roughly a 1/3rd of the dose he was back in August. FWIW, I never purposefully have him dip below 50. Have there been times he's dipped? Absolutely. I caught a 39 once. :shock: But I no longer have the luxury of being able to monitor him 24/7. When he dips under 60, he DIPS. That is a clear sign to me that the depot is large enough and I need to back it down because I have let the depot get ahead of me before, and we've had to skip a shot here or there. Sometimes he's managed those skipped shots well. Sometimes he has not. Keeping Polly in low, safe numbers should be your goal. And you're doing a fantastic job of managing her!
 
I don't think that is true either. It may be ECID. I know, that for Ozy, staying in the 40's was too low. He didn't do well when he was that low. Ozy was IAA but not Acro. Some might claim he was pre-acro (his number was in the normal range for acro). However, he never showed any signs of acro and the testing lab said unequivocally that he was NOT acro. And I am saying that keeping too low was not good for him.

I believe IAA goes away, it just does, usually after about a year or so. The kind of insulin you use can help. For Ozy, that was Levemir. It's been good for Cobb, too.
 
donning my moderator hat... a post on this thread has been reported. when that happens it becomes necessary for a moderator to take a look.
so, here i am. :mrgreen:

fwiw, a couple of comments about the thread so far:
all members, please read what others post carefully before coming to conclusions.
all members, please word your responses carefully so there is no doubt as to the point you're trying to make.

fwiw:
personally, i've yet to read any comment here which hasn't been found true in some cats at one time or another... depending on the individual cat at a given point in treatment.

marilyn, you'll receive many comments/suggestions which appear to be conflicting. unfortunately, it can't be avoided because members are mostly offering opinions on what they've experienced with their own cats. The saying, "Every Cat Is Different (ECID)" is truer than true... whether kitty is receiving a high dose, low dose, or anything in-between! weigh the responses. choose what makes the most sense and fits best for you and polly.

suzanne was right on the money when she said,

"Marilyn, like most topics, this is one where you have to know your cat because they are all different. They all react differently to insulin. Polly's growth hormone output may be dripping whereas another acro's may be gushing. Given that she's had the SRT, her growth hormone output is probably slowing down. There is not a one size fits all answer for where the cutoff should be. Sometimes cutting off at 70 works for Cobb. Sometimes I have to let him go a little lower. But I know that at 70 his body is responding to the dose, and a decrease may be in order. Remember, you can always put more insulin in, you cannot take it out."
(emphasis mine)



to those lurking who may suspect they have an insulin resistant cat:
please do not draw any conclusions based on what you've read in this thread or any other thread pertaining to someone else's cat. doing so could be harmful to your cat. instead, start a new thread and include whatever questions you may have. that way you'll receive the individual attention you and your precious kitty deserve.
thank you!



wishing all the best...
 
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