10/2 Minner AMPS 101 +4 65 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

10/2 Minner AMPS 101 +4 65

MinnerPip

Member since 2024
Minner says HELLO !!! It’s been a couple months (?) and I can’t find my last post b/c I think it was in the .org site, not here. When I chk my content it goes all the way back to April as the last post and I know I posted more recently than that. Anyway ……

To summarize her dosing this year … she hit high of 7.75u in January. Then by June (1 yr anniversary of diabetes diagnosis), we had come all the way down & settled into a dose around 4.5u. Was thinking this was reflection of those pesky antibodies starting to peter out around the year mark.

Well … then we started having higher numbers and having to more frequently feed lower and lower carb foods (0 and 1% fancy feast pate) to maintain. Then yellows started popping up. I started increasing in small amounts, trying to fine tune, but throughout August it was so frustrating and by September I decided we should see the vet and check for infection/inflammation/dental. Keeping in mind that (knock on wood) Minner’s outward behavior was unchanged. The dental suspicion came from learnings on this website and remembering comments from Wendy that its one of the first culprits when insulin requirements start rising. Oh, and I also thought Minner’s breath may have been a bit smelly. I had never noticed much of a breath odor with her before.

So in when go to the vet, on her 6th birthday. This is her same vet who delivered her via c-section. And sure enough, he felt she needed dental cleaning, a lot of inflammation and potential infection on right side. No evidence of need to do extractions. I reduced her insulin dose slightly the night before the dental and gave slightly higher low carb food with goal to keep her in mid-high blue. Injected her with ondansetron and gave 16mg cerenia tab about 8 hours b4 dental. Once he got in there he discovered her 407 tooth (lower right pre molar) was cracked, crown very jagged. He said it had to be painful. He smoothed it down to root and stitched her gum over it. He said pulling it and root not the right path b/c the roots had basically melded with bone at this point and drilling all that out is messy and leaves a big hole and not necessary … her body will do the rest. The same tooth on other side (307) had similar condition but not as advanced, so he did same thing there since it would be needed within a year. She got convenia injection as antibiotic. All bloodwork and urine looked good.

The first 24 hours after the dental was super stressful b/c she was so “stoned-like” from the anesthesia (ketamine). She wouldnt eat at first and I was terrified about giving her insulin w/o ability to manage with food, so I decided to do half dose and she was ok. Thankfully she got back to regular eating shortly after that. I tried to get back to her pre-dental dose of 5.75, but it seemed to drive a food frenzy so we’re on cycle 6 of 5.5u and I’m starting to think we could tweak down again …. But holding a little longer for now. I’ve always feared the 50s and have so far been prone to take reductions before we get all the way to lime. In fact she saw her first lime ever since I last posted and I want to keep it that way, no more limes please. She also is slightly over 16 pounds now so the weight battle continues. The pursuit of the right balance of insulin and associated food to manage the curve is a never ending one. We have found that she will eat weruva polynesian bbq which is 6% and lower calories. Also weruva “too cool” at 2% is lower calorie than her fancy feast foods (pates and chunky have 80/90 calories per can).

In other news … I’m about to switch from Lantus vial to the pens. I’ve never used the pens. I want to try this b/c I want to explore whether keeping the insulin at room temp after opening it and not using it after 28 days makes any difference with Minner. With 5 pens in a pack I think each one will last about a month so this is about equal financially to using a refrigerated vial for 5 months. We’ll see.

I’m also curious if anyone here brushes their cats teeth. Or uses any kind of dental treat or cleaning product. I’m considering these things in case they could help delay the need for future cleanings.

Look forward to catching up here! And getting closer to retirement, hanging in for a few more months! :)
 
Minner says HELLO !!! It’s been a couple months (?) and I can’t find my last post b/c I think it was in the .org site, not here. When I chk my content it goes all the way back to April as the last post and I know I posted more recently than that. Anyway ……

To summarize her dosing this year … she hit high of 7.75u in January. Then by June (1 yr anniversary of diabetes diagnosis), we had come all the way down & settled into a dose around 4.5u. Was thinking this was reflection of those pesky antibodies starting to peter out around the year mark.

Well … then we started having higher numbers and having to more frequently feed lower and lower carb foods (0 and 1% fancy feast pate) to maintain. Then yellows started popping up. I started increasing in small amounts, trying to fine tune, but throughout August it was so frustrating and by September I decided we should see the vet and check for infection/inflammation/dental. Keeping in mind that (knock on wood) Minner’s outward behavior was unchanged. The dental suspicion came from learnings on this website and remembering comments from Wendy that its one of the first culprits when insulin requirements start rising. Oh, and I also thought Minner’s breath may have been a bit smelly. I had never noticed much of a breath odor with her before.

So in when go to the vet, on her 6th birthday. This is her same vet who delivered her via c-section. And sure enough, he felt she needed dental cleaning, a lot of inflammation and potential infection on right side. No evidence of need to do extractions. I reduced her insulin dose slightly the night before the dental and gave slightly higher low carb food with goal to keep her in mid-high blue. Injected her with ondansetron and gave 16mg cerenia tab about 8 hours b4 dental. Once he got in there he discovered her 407 tooth (lower right pre molar) was cracked, crown very jagged. He said it had to be painful. He smoothed it down to root and stitched her gum over it. He said pulling it and root not the right path b/c the roots had basically melded with bone at this point and drilling all that out is messy and leaves a big hole and not necessary … her body will do the rest. The same tooth on other side (307) had similar condition but not as advanced, so he did same thing there since it would be needed within a year. She got convenia injection as antibiotic. All bloodwork and urine looked good.

The first 24 hours after the dental was super stressful b/c she was so “stoned-like” from the anesthesia (ketamine). She wouldnt eat at first and I was terrified about giving her insulin w/o ability to manage with food, so I decided to do half dose and she was ok. Thankfully she got back to regular eating shortly after that. I tried to get back to her pre-dental dose of 5.75, but it seemed to drive a food frenzy so we’re on cycle 6 of 5.5u and I’m starting to think we could tweak down again …. But holding a little longer for now. I’ve always feared the 50s and have so far been prone to take reductions before we get all the way to lime. In fact she saw her first lime ever since I last posted and I want to keep it that way, no more limes please. She also is slightly over 16 pounds now so the weight battle continues. The pursuit of the right balance of insulin and associated food to manage the curve is a never ending one. We have found that she will eat weruva polynesian bbq which is 6% and lower calories. Also weruva “too cool” at 2% is lower calorie than her fancy feast foods (pates and chunky have 80/90 calories per can).

In other news … I’m about to switch from Lantus vial to the pens. I’ve never used the pens. I want to try this b/c I want to explore whether keeping the insulin at room temp after opening it and not using it after 28 days makes any difference with Minner. With 5 pens in a pack I think each one will last about a month so this is about equal financially to using a refrigerated vial for 5 months. We’ll see.

I’m also curious if anyone here brushes their cats teeth. Or uses any kind of dental treat or cleaning product. I’m considering these things in case they could help delay the need for future cleanings.

Look forward to catching up here! And getting closer to retirement, hanging in for a few more months! :)
Hi Laura, I posted on my condo before reading this, so I'm just now getting a thorough update on Minner. Don't worry about replying to my questions there.

I'm so glad you were able to get her dental and teeth issues resolved. That all sounds like it was very complicated. Thankfully the vet was skilled enough to handle things.

I've wanted to try the pens because I only get about two months out of a vial. It's probably me, but I think it loses it's efficacy. The pens will likely be more cost effective for me since I won't throw half it away, like I do the vial.

I use these on all the cats, and they tolerate them better than toothbrushes, toothpaste, etc.

Again, good to see you back on the forum!
 
Hello back Minner! It's great to see an update from you two. :bighug:

Poor Minner on the bad teeth! She will feel much better when all healed up. I found that Neko took about 7-10 days for inflammation to come down post dental - at which point her dose came own a bit too.

I used one vial then switched to the pens (well, actually cartridges in Canada). It was the pharmacists recommendation, she had many kitty clients on Lantus. I found the cartridges also a lot easier to warm out of the fridge due to less volume, though I did still keep them in the fridge between shots. I used cartridges to the last drop, which in the good times meant almost 90 days each, the bad times more like two weeks.

What is Minner's ideal weight? Another reason for considering slow and careful weight loss is that it'll be a lot easier on her body when she is older. It might bring her insulin dose down too.
 
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Welcome back Laura and Minner. Glad to hear she’s healing from the dental. Your vet sounds very knowledgeable and cautious 🥰
I use pens and like them very much. I still refrigerate them (although I’m not using an entire pen in 28 days).
I feel it makes sense since I’m not wasting a vial of if I felt it lost its oomph!

Good luck with your retirement decision and process! That’s exciting news.
Give your sweet girl some kisses from me and Ivy 🥰💕
 
Hi Laura, I posted on my condo before reading this, so I'm just now getting a thorough update on Minner. Don't worry about replying to my questions there.

I'm so glad you were able to get her dental and teeth issues resolved. That all sounds like it was very complicated. Thankfully the vet was skilled enough to handle things.

I've wanted to try the pens because I only get about two months out of a vial. It's probably me, but I think it loses it's efficacy. The pens will likely be more cost effective for me since I won't throw half it away, like I do the vial.

I use these on all the cats, and they tolerate them better than toothbrushes, toothpaste, etc.

Again, good to see you back on the forum!
Thanks Mary. I have the same feeling about the efficacy so I end up using only partial vials. I’ve also found the Lantus pricing to be all over the place. Sometimes I pay $35 at Kroger when a discount code of some sort works (they seem to check multiple discount options including goodrx). Other times it’s $70. I tried to get at another pharmacy and ran into “out of stock due to generic coming soon” comment. Really? I got a 5 pack of pens for $110 at Kroger, which seems high compared to a vial, but I think I’ll use them in entirety, as I assume the efficacy clock does not start ticking until you first open/pierce so the unused pens can sit in fridge for quite a while.

I ordered the suggested finger/thumb fabric toothbrush. This will be interesting. :)
 
Hello back Minner! It's great to see an update from you two. :bighug:

Poor Minner on the bad teeth! She will feel much better when all healed up. I found that Neko took about 7-10 days for inflammation to come down post dental - at which point her dose came own a bit too.

I used one vial then switched to the pens (well, actually cartridges in Canada). It was the pharmacists recommendation, she had many kitty clients on Lantus. I found the cartridges also a lot easier to warm out out of the fridge due to less volume, though I did still keep them in the fridge between shots. I used cartridges to the last drop, which in the good times meant almost 90 days each, the bad times more like two weeks.

What is Minner's ideal weight? Another reason for considering slow and careful weight loss is that it'll be a lot easier on her body when she is older. It might bring her insulin dose down too.
Thanks Wendy. Will start the pens in probably another few weeks. Her current vial is ~40 days in use.

I think her ideal weight would be about 12 pounds. 250 calories a day was the suggested amount to slowly work toward getting there when she was at 15 pounds. It would be easy if I could just offer that amount of food each day. Stating the obvious —- the inconsistency of her insulin action (which I assume is mainly caused by her antibodies) makes such an approach feel reckless. I am surprised frequently with unexpected BG readings. So I use food to deal with surprises. If I run her higher then I can hold back on food. I got her down to 14.7 pounds about 2 mths ago but that’s the lowest.
 
Hi Laura!!! Good to hear from you!

I started "brushing" Bell's teeth after she quickly built up tartar after her last cleaning. She had some bad side effects from that cleaning and, like you, I wanted to delay the next one as long as I can. I don't think the brushing is going to fix the existing build-up, but I'm hoping to prevent it from getting worse. The first few weeks I noticed her gums bled after a brushing but now they never do, so I am taking that as progress.

My strategy is to wait for Bell to get in her favorite bed (with her paws under her) and then quickly brush the 4 quadrants before she gets her claws in me. By "brush" I really mean 2-4 swipes with toothpaste (I use this) on all 4 sides. It isn't ideal, but it is better than nothing. I know other folks here have had luck uses finger brushes (I use a small toothbrush) or dentil wipes.

She certainly doesn't like it and tries to push my hand away (claws out), but I can get it done most days. She is also a very tolerant cat.

Early congrats on the upcoming retirement!
 
Hi Laura!!! Good to hear from you!

I started "brushing" Bell's teeth after she quickly built up tartar after her last cleaning. She had some bad side effects from that cleaning and, like you, I wanted to delay the next one as long as I can. I don't think the brushing is going to fix the existing build-up, but I'm hoping to prevent it from getting worse. The first few weeks I noticed her gums bled after a brushing but now they never do, so I am taking that as progress.

My strategy is to wait for Bell to get in her favorite bed (with her paws under her) and then quickly brush the 4 quadrants before she gets her claws in me. By "brush" I really mean 2-4 swipes with toothpaste (I use this) on all 4 sides. It isn't ideal, but it is better than nothing. I know other folks here have had luck uses finger brushes (I use a small toothbrush) or dentil wipes.

She certainly doesn't like it and tries to push my hand away (claws out), but I can get it done most days. She is also a very tolerant cat.

Early congrats on the upcoming retirement!
Thank you so much Seth for sharing your method and exoerience. I’m going to start with Mary’s rec on the fabric brush you put on your finger. I ordered those yesterday. Will see. I like having an arsenal of options so will chk out your paste.

So nice to return and see Bell again! She’s hanging in there. Glad to see you’ve continued to find ways to co-manage your work situation and caring for special needs of one of your babies. I hope the pendulum swings again soon and work from home becomes an option for you again.

Take care and thanks again.
 
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