10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70, +11=74

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BJM

BJM

Member Since 2010
Yesterday:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27674
and
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27667

Yesterday he got 2 doses of 1 unit and came down from the carb leftovers of the inadvertent unneeded insulin. I seem to recall it takes about 3 half-lives on a dose change for the values to become stable, and that dosing is usually based on the half-life.

Food was out all day & night; all the cats got the option of eating a bit of cooked lean beef - interest was variable (raw might've done better, but I was cooking it for me!)

Canned food has been left out today.
He was on my bed this am, snuggling, and was playing with the other cats after breakfast.

I'm going to see if my friend would be interested/willing to learn how to blood test (he does the insulin on my chorus rehearsal night). I won't be home to test him at that time; I'll have to test him when I get home arount 10-ish
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100

Nice AMPS for Spitzer today. Have you seen the sticky that talks about low preshots:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26571

We suggest getting at least a before bed time check at night BJ ~~if you could do that to see where he is heading. Many kitties get their lowest numbers during the PM cycle.

We know that our kitties are a lot more than just their BG numbers. So we watch for the 5 Ps daily.
P=Purring
P=Peeing
P=Pooping
P=Preening
P=Playing
WCR (Whole Cat Report) counts the number of Ps that are present each day...just so you know!
Glad yo9u left food out for him today. I know it isn't his lowest preshot, but still, it is on the low side. Does your schedule allow you time to get a +1 before you have to leave? A +1 is always nice to get with lower numbers.
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

My friend stopped in to do feeding & insulin. Spitzer was observed peeing & pooping normally.
Spitzer is always a sweety - purr, play, & preening happily.

PM +1 = 63 to 76

Will be able to check a couple more before bedtime.
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

BJ, that's a very low number for a +1. The insulin has not yet started to have an effect, but the food has...this should be one of the highest BG readings of the cycle. Please get a +1.5 and a +2 and keep us updated.

Were you able to get some HC food yet?
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

Ditto what Laura said. I'd put a pot of coffee on -- you may be up late testing. If you are getting this low of a +1, there's no way to know where the nadir will be.
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

Remember, he's a grazer, not fed just at specific meals.
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

BJ, did you get HC food yet?

Regardless of the grazing vs meal fed, that's STILL a very low +1. You don't have adequate data yet to know if it is safe to be shooting these low numbers. You are taking a very big risk of ending up at the ER vet...or worse.

Did you get a +1.5?
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

+3 = 45
He scampered down the stairs to the bathroom where I do the BG & ate a bit more.
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

Lantus onset is around +2. Even if Spitzer doesn't eat a big meal at shot time, he ate something. And his numbers are dropping. That's usually a sign of a busy cycle.

Data Ready sticky said:
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.

Keep in mind that these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's reactions to insulin. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then your experience should be your guide.
Click to expand...


Here is the link to Libby's post on low pre-shot numbers
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

it's awfully early in the cycle for a number that low.
since he just ate, give him a little gravy from a can of hc and retest in 20 minutes, please. hopefully you can bump his numbers up before the insulin peaks.

got cawfee? looks like you'll need to monitor for awhile yet...
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

Hi BJ-

You're gonna want to get more food in him and test every 15 minutes now. You're coming close to dangerously low numbers and it's still really early in the cycle. Do you have any gravy or HC food? You're gonna need to feed and test to make sure that the numbers start rising. I'm not trying to frighten you, but you'll need to keep a super close eye for the next few hours.
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

If you don't have HC canned food in the house, please mix a few drops of Karo (or honey, maple syrup) into LC food. A 45 at +3 is an indication of a busy night of testing. Please test in 20 min. per Jill's suggestion and post the number. Can you change your subject line to reflect your current test numbers, too?
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

BJ, I'm so hoping that you're testing and just not posting. Please let us know what's happening...we're on the edge of our seats waiting for higher numbers!


Haha, Jill...I've been sitting on my hands waiting to post for an update! You beat me to it!

s
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

I'm turning off my computer in a few minutes. In case others are logging out, as well, here are some general guidelines for dealing with low numbers:


• Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with HC or HC food only.
• Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on where the numbers are, give more HC food.
• Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small
amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
• Test in 30 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
• Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

DO NOT become complacent. If numbers have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wears off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep. You are leaving your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out. A better strategy is to follow the steps outlined above.
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76

I'll be around, Sienne....it's not bedtime on the west coast just yet.

I'm starting to really worry that it's late and you've gone to sleep, BJ, and am so concerned about the consequences. It's at least +4.25 now...please update ASAP.

s
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer AMPS = 100 PM+1 = 63-76; +3 45

BJ, i was hoping you would have updated by now. hope everything is ok.
sienne left some instructions for handling low numbers.

i'm concerned, but have to sign off for the evening...
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65

Offered different canned food, because he took a few nominal licks of what was out, even after I warmed it up.

He decided the other flavor was dandy and had quite the nosh. - everyone wanted some too (mom - whaz he gettin? can I has sum tooz?) And I had tea ... with ice cream in it to sweeten it (well ... if I'm going to be up all night, I might as well enjoy some of it)
I've been sitting down in the kitchen with them because the arthritis in my knee wasn't up for lots of stair trips.

PMPS = ? (friend gave dose; doesn't know how to test yet; said he'd be OK learning, so that's next)
+ 1 = 63 @09:30 PM
+ 3 = 49 @11:30 PM
+ 4 = 55 @12:30 AM
+ 5 = 65 @01:30 AM

I'm wondering if he might be one of those that is diet-controlled when on canned, low carb food.

And thank you everyone!
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65

Hi BJ-

I'm glad to see you're still around and that the numbers are coming up. You had us all very worried! With a +3 so low, it's best to test more frequently, as the numbers could have easily gone the other way. Had they continued to drop, waiting an hour may have been very dangerous. How much has Spitzer had to eat? Was it LC or HC? Will you be sticking around for 1 more test? Either way, please make sure to leave food out...you haven't quite reached mid-way yet. Please consider a decrease tomorrow. Sienne recommended dropping to .75 a couple of days ago. I think it's a wise move. You will most likely encounter high numbers tomorrow after dropping so low tonight. I think others have mentioned, it's better to work your way up from a lower dose, rather than trying to work your way down...Spitzer's on a bit of a bouncy roller coaster. I'm sure others will check up on you in the morning and offer additional advice about dosing. I'll be up for another hour or so if you need anything. Ciao!!

s

(sorry for the delay...the post didn't seem to want to go through for a long time)
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70

I was observing him the entire time. He was playing with the other young adults, or relaxing near me, watching attentively, and occasionally coming over for snuggling.

+6 = 70
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70

Thanks for updating, BJ! I think you can probably leave some food out and get some sleep at this point...nice job sticking it out tonight!

s
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70

A button I once saw:

"Sleep is for wimps. Happy, healthy, well rested wimps, but wimps nonetheless."
 
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Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70

BJ, I'm glad to hear that Spitzer is ok, we were very concerned about him. Whenever you see a number below 50, you should be testing more frequently (every 20 minutes) and feeding whatever you need to to get him above 50. Watching his behavior is good too, but testing gives you the opportunity to prevent a hypo, rather than treating it once it happens.

He may very well become diet controlled with the LC food and some insulin. It does happen with some newly diagnosed cats, and even some that have been long time diabetics. The protocol we follow is proven and will give him the best chance of getting into remission, if it's possible for him. All I can say for certain right now is that he has earned a dose reduction because his numbers fell below 50. Please get a +11 and post it in the header of this thread in the morning so we can talk about the dose, ok?

Sleep? What's that? I only get naps these days... :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/19/2010 Spitzer PM+3=45 +4=55, +5=65, +6=70

Ditto to Laurie's post. Dose reduction earned.
a +11 gives everyone who's watching for you at this time a heads up.

Any chance you could add what was shot last nite and yesterday morning on to your spreadsheet?
If left blank it does appear like no shot was given.
 
10/19/2010
AMPS 100
insulin 1 unit
not home all day
PMPS ? friend doesn't know how to test
insulin 1 unit
+1 76
+3 45
+4 55
+5 65
+6 70
+11 74

I think Spitzer has earned a drug holiday, at least for the next 12 hours.

And I have a meeting at work this morning, so I have to go in for a bit, but then I think I'm taking some leave time so I don't fall asleep on my keyboards (the noise bothers everyone else when that happens, LOL)
 
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