10/16 Sooty PMBG 254 +2 255 +4 232 +6 250

Status
Not open for further replies.

Perry and Sooty

Member Since 2010
After Yesterday...
We had a really serious head to head here (and after listening to all the feedback), we both agree that he overriding issue here is that Sooty's behavior is just sooo wrong, so out of character, that he is telling us something.
He really has, try as we might to handle it, been getting much worse, day by day, since the dose has risen from 2.25, through 2.5, and on up to 3.0. And yesterday was the worst ever..
So we both agreed on one thing - that we do not and cannot know what would have happened, back at Dx if all that we had done was to change his diet - which of course we did do but at the exact same time that he started on 2.0u BID of Lantus.
We have no base line and therefore (it just has to be admitted), there is still a real possibility that even going back as we did, to 1.5u on 9/23, might still have been too much.
So we are going to bite the bullet and start over - right back at zero - so we will know where we really stand. And OK, then, if, as he almost certainly will, he still needs insulin, all we should have lost is a few more days in the mid-200s and low 300s.

Yes, we DO know this is against much good advice and yes we know that we have to be VERY careful and watch his numbers (& ketones) like a hawk. And we will.
But this is the only way we can ever find out if, just suppose, his correct dose might be lower than we ever thought, like 0.1 or 0.25 or something really low.

So please, bear with us, while we do this - and let us see what we learn. If we are right or we are wrong, at least we will FINALLY know for sure.

He hasn't had a shot now since since yesterday's AM (as we made actually this decision last evening). His AMBG this morning is 251.

Happy Caturday, LLers and we will keep you all posted, I promise!
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251

Thanks Lisa, Thanks Celi, much appreciate your stopping by and I hope you have a great weekend!
Oddly enough Sooty is like a whole different person today - he's been making a great fuss of me this morning, jumped up on my lap and treading on my arm - purring his little (OK, not so little!) head off! then he cuddled up at my feet while I watched "this old house" on PBS, using my foot as a pillow...!
He's having a snack now as I type...
Will get a +3 soon.... although I don't expect to see too very much change as yet, while he depletes whatever is still in the shed...
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258

Anne&Muffin said:
Good Luck!
THANK you. Much appreciated! Sooty's been great all day today but the next day or two will be more significant I'm sure...
Purrrrrrr!
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258

Others have tried this too Perry. I just posted the other day to someone about my experiment/experience with a similar experiment and told her that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. But, since you are doing this to satisfy your own curiosity and since you didn't ask, there is nothing I can say but that I am glad you are testing him and updating us here.

Oh, and the ketone testing is important during this time of no insulin.

Shadow's SS shows the last days of our Vetsulin use when I lowered his dose to see what would happen. We switched to Levemir and was not as aggressive with the dosing as I might have been in the beginning. I came to LL and started with following the protocol and I look back on a lot of wasted time for my Shadow. I do understand your thinking since I was thinking the same way in the beginning. I think a whole lot differently nowadays. :razz:

but I am glad that you are keeping us informed....scritches to Sooty!!
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258

Pat+Raja+Shadow said:
Others have tried this too Perry. I just posted the other day to someone about my experiment/experience with a similar experiment and told her that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. But, since you are doing this to satisfy your own curiosity and since you didn't ask, there is nothing I can say but that I am glad you are testing him and updating us here.

Oh, and the ketone testing is important during this time of no insulin.

Shadow's SS shows the last days of our Vetsulin use when I lowered his dose to see what would happen. We switched to Levemir and was not as aggressive with the dosing as I might have been in the beginning. I came to LL and started with following the protocol and I look back on a lot of wasted time for my Shadow. I do understand your thinking since I was thinking the same way in the beginning. I think a whole lot differently nowadays. :razz:

but I am glad that you are keeping us informed....scritches to Sooty!!
Thanks Pat I appreciate your thoughts and concerns I really do. I can also see it could be seen as "why are you even on here and asking questions if you then just go off do your own thing and don't follow our advice?" I can see and understand that. But we have learned SOOOOO much from being here and now know things (entirely thanks to you and everyone here), that we had no clue about before - and so we're not doing this out of ignorance or impatience. (Which we most certainly WERE doing before). The main reason we're doing this now, isn't just about the numbers, nor just to satisfy curiosity, it is really to determine whether or not he is even conceivably, possibly, currently being overdosed. And the reason we reached the decision when we did, was much more about how Sooty is in himself and the changes we were seeing day to day as the dose was again increased. The numbers were saying that nothing had really changed but his behavior and ravenous hunger has been getting worse and worse very noticably, day to day. By the night before last it had reached the point we both quite separately concluded, felt, that something was just plain wrong.
I know nothing we do as regards insulin dose either way, is without risk - and we will be as careful as possible. I hate the idea that this may as you say turn out to be a watse of time and effort - but what if it isn't?
I can say that today he has really been acting MUCH MUCH better and has been much more like his old self. Much more comfortable-looking, no food stealing, no 'crying for food even though he only just ate a bowlful' - etc. But you wouldn't know that from the spreadsheet. I cannot explain it but there it is.
I have to add, of course: Thanks for the scritches! LOL! - I have duly passed them on to the man himself - and he replied:
Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258 PMBG 254

36 hours now since his last shot... still in the mid 200s... Waiting and watching...
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258

Thanks Pat I appreciate your thoughts and concerns I really do. I can also see it could be seen as "why are you even on here and asking questions if you then just go off do your own thing and don't follow our advice?" I can see and understand that.

Perry, I don't think people will think that, so I don't want you to worry about that. Only you know Sooty, and we all understand that a cat is so much more than his/her numbers. So what you observe about Sooty is every bit as important (moreso, actually) than what his SS says.
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty AMBG 251 +3 261 +5 274 +7 258 PMBG 254

Perry --

All we can do is share our thoughts, impressions, experience, etc. to whatever degree that forms a collective wisdom. However, you live with Sooty. You see his behavior on a day-to-day basis and knew what he was like before he was diagnosed and how he is now. You're also the person who has the syringe in hand. What I've seen here is that if someone is looking for a backboard to bounce things off of, you'll get our feedback -- for better or worse. Whatever you decide to do, unless someone here knows with pretty much absolute certainty that what you are suggesting will cause immediate harm to your cat, we will respect your decision.

I may have missed it but have you decided how long you'll keep Sooty off of insulin? Or are you looking for a BG level?
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty PMBG 254 +2 255

Hi Perry
I have not been around that much lately but I do look in on how you and Sooty
are doing.
I was going to say the same thing as Sienne.
It is your hand that the syringe is in and Sooty is your baby, you know him best.
You are very devoted to him and we know you will be watching him like a hawk.
This board is amazing and you will get the support, shooting or not so...
IMHO keep your posting and everything that you are doing.
And once again, here is a reminder of Max's climb to 6u, then none. :-D
This is a very tough job and we are all here for you.
Scritches to Sooty.
 
Re: 10/16 Sooty PMBG 254 +2 255

Thanks Anne & Sienne and Randi! - that is very (very!) kind of you and I am so glad we're good! By the way we still plan to get the blood tests for IGF-1 and IAA next week.
As to how long to keep him off the insulin, that is a very good question.
I don't know if anyone really can say for sure how long it actually takes to completely 'empty the shed' until we can see what the picture is with zero effect from the insulin... I was thinking it might take up to 3 days or so would you agree? I was fully prepared to see his numbers shoot up really high (but when? not sure!) which would have shown that the insulin was indeed having an effect before; I was also prepared that his numbers might equally well, drop suddenly too. And the third possibility was that nothing much would change at all, indicating that maybe he's just insulin resistant for some reason and we've just never gotten even close to his ideal dose. With this insulin it seems you can't always tell 'direct' effect from a reaction or 'bounce' effect either... so it's basically a waiting game, whatever you do!
His BGs right now don't look all that different from before, do they? - although it begins to look like MAYBE he is starting to look relatively stable around the 250 mark...?
I'm prepared to wait it out for another two or three days and I am quite conscious that then, the question is likely not to be 'does he need insulin or not', but more a case of "how little - or how much"...?
Sooty has been doing really great today and I am at a bit of a loss to understand why less insulin seems to sit better with him and more seems to make him nuts, when the BG level isn't all that different in either case up to now. ECID I know - but come on Sooty, can't you give us a clue !!!???
ANyhoo thanks again for hanging with me while we do this I DO really appreciate it knowing you are there!
- and here's wishing y'all a good and peaceful Saturday evening and an equally good Sunday... will keep you posted, as best I can...!
Perry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top