10/16 Rusty PMPS 203, +4.5 211 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

10/16 Rusty PMPS 203, +4.5 211

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Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

Very Active Member
yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54296

Good Morning, Everyone,

We didn't leave for NYC. My car doesn't sound right and we didn't want to take a chance, so I'll try to take it in (again!) tomorrow, we'll cancel our dentist appointments tomorrow, and aim for leaving on Tuesday, or maybe wait until next week. Rusty is down a little today and we'll see what he does with his numbers today. Cold, blustery, with rain squalls this morning. I took the car out for a test drive at 7 A.M. and made the decision not to do a 6-hour drive on a Sunday (when no repair shops would be open).

Back later, hope all is well with everyone and sending healing vines to Leo, Garland, Rocket, Zoe, Tobey, and all other kitties who need them, and sending special thoughts and prayers for Linda & Teddy.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219

Rusty, don't you miss those lovely blues and greens?

Ella, good call on the trip postpone. Cold, blustery, squally weather is best spent under covers, not on the side of the road!
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219

Glad you decided not to venture in to the big city today w/your car sounding a bit off.

Maybe Rusty can get some exercise chasing Mr Chipmunk today.

Have a good one.
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219

((Ella)) You are such a smart Bean! Best to be home and get the car checked out......
If the worst case scenario is something you can't deal with, then it's best to not chance it. Good move! :mrgreen:
Hope you all have a cozy day today....and uh Rusty...anytime you want to try a lower BG number it would be fine ya know..... Hugs from us!!
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

Hi again,
Rusty seems to be stuck in this pattern. I think tonight I'll take the skinny off and go back up to a regular 1.50. This is the 13th cycle on the slightly skinny/skinny 1.50 and nothing is happening. Rusty's numbers were moderately better on the regular 1.50 units (but not much better). I'm pretty discouraged with these high (for Rusty), flat cycles. I thought that maybe his dose had gotten too high because every time he got a couple of greens, he would go right back up to the yellows, often going into higher yellow numbers than previously. I would welcome the opinion of Jill, Libby, Sienne, et al. I don't think Rusty is sick: just a month ago he had a complete profile (bloodwork/urinalysis) and a dental. All was OK, according to his vet.

Questions I am mulling over: 1) Does it often happen that a long-time diabetic cat who had been very well regulated will lose regulation for no apparent reason? (looking back over Rusty's SS I see that it has been a gradual process; he had great numbers when he lived with Phoebe and really good numbers with us until about April). (He does not act any differently and has all 5 Ps every day and good appetite. His food has not been changed. )
2) Would a switch from Lev. to Lantus be beneficial? In Rusty's case it would be a return to Lantus. He was on Lantus from Nov. 2008 (when he was found on the streets and discovered to be diabetic; he was fostered by Claudia, who put him on Lantus) to April 2010 (when he was adopted by Phoebe, who had another kitty on Lev. and didn't want two diabetic cats on two different insulins). We kept him on Lev. when he was re-homed with us in Nov. 2010.

If anyone has any thoughts on this situation, I would be most appreciative. I realize that there are many kitties here who need "eyes" and help more than Rusty does. But maybe Rusty's recent pattern and a possible solution can shed some light for others, too.

Many thanks for reading this far!

Ella

p.s. This is day 24 on this cartridge of Lev. (manufacturer says to discard after 42 days, but we usually go to about 48 days).
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

Good morning Ella! I can't offer any advice, but I hope you get this figured out. I'm sure the wise ones will help. Glad that Rusty is still feeling good and acting the same, regardless of his rising numbers.
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

I think that before you switch, you should be a bit more aggressive with dose. I wouldn't take the fat off. I'd increase by 0.25u. One of the things I found with Gabby was that it's fine to skinny/fatten with decreases but it's often better to increase by 0.25u if she's stuck.

Just my 2 cents...
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

hi ella. sorry your trip didn't work out for you. i have a few comments on the questions you've asked:

1) Does it often happen that a long-time diabetic cat who had been very well regulated will lose regulation for no apparent reason?

we've often seen long time diabetics lose regulation for obvious reasons (teeth, infection, hyper-t, renal disease, etc.). sometimes you just have to keep digging for an answer. sometimes the answer will become apparent over time. however, sometimes the insulin isn't being utilized as it was in the past (age of the cat? i dunno.). this means the cat will need a higher dose than kitty was ever on before. from a personal standpoint, i understand the conflicting emotions in raising a dose when kitty *used to be* doing so well at a lower dose, but i think it's important to remain flexible in dosing by giving kitty however much insulin he needs.

I thought that maybe his dose had gotten too high because every time he got a couple of greens, he would go right back up to the yellows, often going into higher yellow numbers than previously.
Click to expand...
pulling the dose down after seeing what you've described is not the best way to use lantus/levemir. instead, we plow through those numbers by giving more insulin until the entire range comes down. once a kitty gets comfortable in higher numbers it usually takes more time and more insulin to pull their numbers back down.

2) Would a switch from Lev. to Lantus be beneficial? In Rusty's case it would be a return to Lantus.

if stu rusty (sorry about that) were mine, i wouldn't bother switching to lantus. he's responding very, very well to levemir. imho, he just needs more juice.

p.s. This is day 24 on this cartridge of Lev. (manufacturer says to discard after 42 days, but we usually go to about 48 days).
Click to expand...
i use the lev flexpens until the insulin level in the pen is so low that i have to turn it sideways in order to draw a dose... and so do many others. if the pens are handled properly and you're not seeing any visible signs of deterioration (discoloration, floaties, cloudiness) there's no reason not to.



just my thoughts...
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

Thanks, Sienne,
I certainly do want to follow protocol, but if I go up tonight to 1.75 I wonder if I will see the same upward trend that I saw when I increased from 1 unit to 1.25, and then from 1.25 to 1.50. It seems that in recent months when I have increased the dose by .25 to try to get the numbers down, the numbers have gone up instead! This is why I'm so confused.

Confused & Rusty

Oh, I just see that Jill has some comments. Off to read them and then will be back.

Back again. Thanks, Jill, for your explanation. You and Sienne are on the same page and you both have given me the confidence to go ahead and raise Rusty's dose tonight.

Thank you both for your time and for your invaluable experience.

Ella
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

hi Ella and Rusty,
hope you sort out what is going on....yes it is discouraging....but you are doing a great job at caring for Rusty and he knows he is one lucky kitty!

hope you get the car issue resolved too.....

have a great Sunday you two!
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

good luck with the dosecrease! FWIW, my experience with Lucy was similar to Sienne's with Gabby. In the end, what worked best was doing increases in increments of 0.25u, and decreases by drops. Increasing by just a drop was not usually enough to get her unstuck. Best case scenario is that it will just take a few cycles at the higher dose to get his momentum back.
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183 eyes please

Thank you, Libby!

Hi again everyone,
We are so fortunate here in LL to have Jill, Sienne, and Libby to help us with our dosing questions. What would we do without them?! Tonight Rusty and I will go onward and upward (literally!)--in dose, that is, hopefully not in bgs.

Thanks again, ladies, for building my confidence.

Ella
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183, +9 173, PMPS 203

Back again,
I gave the 0.25-unit increase this evening (to skinny 1.75 up from skinny 1.50). I can see that I'm going to have to do better eyeballing an "accurate" 1.75. So we'll see what happens next. The shed will need to fill to its new level.
Rusty enjoyed his dinner and is now watching TV with Edward ("Beach Blanket Bingo" if you can believe it!). Since we didn't go to NYC today, we were able to go to the monthly potluck supper and Edward ate his fill!!! We've decided to do the trip next Sunday.

Off to visit some condos now.

wishing you all a good evening,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183, +9 173, PMPS 203

Good luck with the dosecrease. Nice you got to go to dinner and will go to NYC next week. Have a great evening.
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183, +9 173, PMPS 203

Hi Ella!! So sorry your trip had to be postponed, but I'm glad you decided to have the car looked at again first. Don't you just hate it when your car, something you HAVE to have, starts acting up? And mechanics charge you an arm and a leg. I'm very lucky to have my neighbor to help me out!!!

I sure hope Rusty gets out of his "inactive" stage. I've been so frustrated with Champ, not in a "what the heck!" kind of way, but more in a "what's going on?" sort of way. It sounds like that's where you are. Champ has finally started to hit some greens so I'm hoping Rusty finds his new "good" dose soon, too. And then we have to hope it continues!!!

Potluck dinner sounds like it was delicious!!!!
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183, +9 173, PMPS 203

Hi Ella,
Do you still feed Wellness?

I stopped feeding Wellness quite a few months ago because it was making Tiggy's BGs go higher than usual. Also the FF Turkey & Giblets flavor I now consider Medium carb.

So -- I feed Merricks BG chicken, turkey and quail/chicken with FF chicken feast or chicken/liver feast or chopped grill.

Just a couple weeks ago I did buy 2 cans each of Wellness to test whether the formula was back or still extra potato. BGs were still higher, so I won't buy more.

Really i suspect that is why Rusty is up -- because Tiggy did the same thing on the Wellness.

By changing foods, Tiggy is still doing well on 0.5u BID.
 
Re: 10/16 Rusty AMPS 219, +5.5 183, +9 173, PMPS 203

Hi Ella - good luck with the new dose. I understand your frustration. it is the same in a way with Mannie - a few good cycles, and then we are up in the yellows again. I dunno... And this has all been since his dental.

Interesting comments on wellness. That is what Mannie is fed now. I tried the Merrick BG, and he was not a big fan. Wellness he loves. so... here we are.

Well, hoping good things for Rusty - and I hope the dose increase does the trick!
 
Hi again,
Thanks, Phoebe, for your thoughts on Wellness. I've never seen potatoes in it and they are not on the list of ingredients, but it does have sweet potatoes. Yes, we tried the Merrick's BG too, and Rusty didn't like it at all. He was luke warm to By Nature turkey and turkey liver (Stu's favorite). Maybe I'll try him again on that. I still have quite a few cans. He doesn't seem to like any of the chicken flavors I tried: Wellness chicken, Evo Chicken & Turkey, BG chicken & quail, By Nature Chicken (but he likes the freeze dried chicken treats and also boiled chicken breast in water (people food). And he loves Wellness turkey and FF Turkey & Giblets (he only gets a teaspoon of T&G a day, as a snack at bedtime). He is apparently allergic to fish. I really want him to enjoy his food. So many people here have kitties who are fussy eaters and are always opening new flavors after the old are rejected. Rusty doesn't have that problem.
Anyway, I'll have to think about the whole food issue.

Ni ni everyone, and thanks again for all the thoughts and encouragement,

Ella & Rusty
 
When I was feeding Champ Wellness, I also noticed white "cubes" in the food. I never thought it was potato; I always assumed it was solidified fat. The cubes were few and far between so I just picked them out whenever I saw one; mainly because I thought eating a cube of "fat" wasn't the best idea. Wellness is kind of high up there on the fat content!!
 
Hi Ella

Sorry to get to your condo so late but what an amazingly informative condo it is!!! I love all the great info and you got some wonderful knowledge from JILL, LIBBY, and SIENNE! Always nice to have the "dream team" checking in. I'm glad you are going to stick with the levemir. You don't know if Rusty would start doing crazy bouncy cycles (dives and then back up fast) like I see kitties do on lantus. The lev really lets them have some nice, flat, long curves; they still bounce but I don't think as high or dive as fast.

On the Wellness....I feed it to Gracie and Tobey. Gracie has gotten it exclusively for almost ten months and I do not see any changes in her BGs that could be attributable to food. Nor do I see potatoes in the food and they eat the same kinds. I think it is ECID. I have tried Gracie on all those lower %carb foods and she wouldn't eat them. I do wonder if on the lev, she can do with a lower %carb food but I hate to rock the food boat anti jinx

Good luck with the dosecrease. I am hoping it will kick in, bring his numbers down, and let him get back down to a lower dose and regulation again.
 
So sorry that Rusty's numbers have continued to stay high... hopefully being more aggressive with the dosing will do the trick! Fingers and paws crossed that the car is fixed soon and you all can get back to NYC soon!

Have you tried Blue Wilderness or Nature's Instinct? Wilderness is like 1 or 2%, and the Nature's Instinct Lamb is 1% and the Chicken is 3%. Willie has been a fan of both!

Hey, Rusty! Huge piles of leaves!! Come on over!! --Willie
 
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