10/15 Michael pmps 261 +2.25 256

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Paula

Paula

Member Since 2014
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=126953#p1310637

Good Morning all ~O)
Michael's liver sure likes that stinky pink (amps 353) grr_red When the bounce clears should I increase the dose from 1.75u to 2u (.25u increase) :?: He has been on 1.75u for many cycles, and, although I saw greens & blues,
it is obvious that he has starting bouncing again. This dance is so confusing, just when I think I should dosecrease, he bounces. Please look at the SS. I need to know when I can dosecrease.
It's the bounces that throw me in utter confusion :? My Vet wants me to do another curve this week of which I will add 30 pts to his #'s. since I use the Relion Prime human meter. ( she wants me to use the alphtrak, which I cannot afford)
Thanks a bunch :!:
Paula :?
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353

Thanks Julie & Chris, for the info on yesterdays condo.
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353

Hi Paula,
I've looked at Michael's SS and see that you have a tendency to skinny a dose whenever he gets green numbers in the previous cycle. Then, beginning in the next cycle he bounces. The main reason for the bounce is the green numbers. His liver is not used to them and so puts him in bounce mode. But by immediately lowering (skinnying) the dose you mess up the consistency that Lantus needs to work well. The result is that the bounce continues. Then you feel that you have to fatten the dose again to try to compensate.
My suggestion would be to hold the 1.75 dose and not to fiddle with it. It can take up to 72 hours to clear a bounce. When the green numbers show up again, don't panic; observe for a few cycles and see if he doesn't start to settle. Every time you make a change in dose you should always give the new dose a chance to settle. If it doesn't seem to be working, you should ask for dosing help again.

Good luck!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353

I posted this in your condo on the 13th you must have missed it.
Increasing the dose:

Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.

when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.


10/3 66@5.5
10/5 59@amps
10/8 72@6.5
10/9 98@2.25
10/12 73@pmps
10/5 59@amps
10/8 72@6.5
10/9 98@2.25
10/12 73@pmps
So you would want to hold it for ten cycles after 10/12, if you get another under 100 the ten cycle resets.
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353

I agree with Ella. I'd continue to hold the dose. If you are seeing green nadirs, then I'd hold 8-10 consecutive cycles. Every time you skinny the dose, you break the cycle count and have to start over again. Skinnying the dose can also affect later cycles and Michael could still be bouncing. Time to haul out the patience pants and put them on.
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353

Thanks for the replies.

Darin, what do you mean that if I see I see nadirs under 100 that the cycle resets :?:


Ella & Wendy, It is extremely hard for me to see the exact dose. (Even with glasses, Jewler's Manifier and a magnifying glass. Using all this devices I still eyeball it so to speak. For example, the "skinny" 1.75u could have been 1.75 u. and the 1.75u could be 2u for all I know. So, I have just recorded what I think could be as close as possible. I will hold the dose. Meanwhile I will run the curve for the Vet on the (what I think I see) 1.75u.
How much damage is being done, by M staying in the Pinks & Yellows :?: That's what I'm trying to avoid.
Paula :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277

Maybe the bounce is starting to clear. (amps 353 +6 277) (Yellow looks better than pink.)
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277

when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.

Meaning that each time Michael goes below 100 as mentioned above, the holding the dose for a count of 10 cycles starts over.
Example, your last under 100 was on 10/12 so you hold that dose for 10 cycles(5 days) which would be the 17th, but if today he went under 100 the the holding the dose for 10 cycles, the count would restart today. Does that make sense?
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277

Thanks, Darin
Yes it does make sense, but raises another question. If he went under 100 today, the holding the dose for another 5 days keeps going on if he goes below100 in any cycle. It seems like you are alway holding the dose if he is under 100. If that is the case, when do you ever get to increase or decrease :?:
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277

Remember, Lantus is dosed based on the nadir...so if you're getting numbers under 100, you are in good "pancreas healing numbers" so you wouldn't want to increase or decrease. (unless he went below 50 in which case you would decrease!)

Michael is still quite new to the sugardance....so he's still a bouncy kitty. He MAY settle down as you move forward...or he MAY bounce for the rest of his life. Even China, who's spent a lot of time in good numbers will bounce now and then (and I don't like seeing it any more than you do!) but I do know that when we first started, she'd take the full 72 hours to clear it...now she clears it in one cycle

Look what happened on October 10th! She dropped into the 30's, her liver kicked into high gear and she bounced to the 300's. She hadn't seen a pink in 2 months before then! But by the next morning's cycle, she'd "cleared the bounce" and was back into green by nadir

As Michael's body gets more used to being in better numbers, he'll more than likely bounce less high, and when he does bounce, clear them faster and faster.

We don't suggest you increase when there's ANY chance they're in a bounce because if you increase AND they decide to "break the bounce" in the same cycle, you're not only going to set them up to bounce again (by having them go too low or down too fast) you're also likely to have to spend the day testing and feeding to try to keep his numbers safe. If you look at my example again and pretend that instead of clearing the bounce in one cycle she took 5 cycles but then I increased her because her numbers were still high and THEN she "broke the bounce" like she did the morning of 10/11, understand how that could have been a pretty scary day? With her breaking the bounce AND being increased?
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277

Thanks for the reply, Chris. Looking at Michael is doing today, it does seem that he is starting to break the bounce. We'll see. Just tested. (amps +9.75 313) guess the bounce wasn't beginning to clear. Back to that "stinky" pink again grr_red Guess I better go put on my pretty patience pants :YMSIGH:
Paula :smile:
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277 +9.75 313

This is the increase/decrease protocol.
Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277 +9.75 313

Food Question. Ha anyone ever used "Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Freeze dried Meal or Mixer chicken formula
for cats" :?: If so, is it low carb. The package looks like it has freezed dried chicken nuggets. I would like to leave that food out at night for Michael to nibble on. It doesn,t appear to be dry food.
Thanks,
Paula :smile:
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277 +9.75 313

The food that you want to leave out for Michael over night should be a medium carb. Such as friskies mix grill 12%
The reason Julie told you to leave out food was cause you can't test past +3/4 it was as a safety precaution if Michaels numbers started to drop to possible low numbers you need a higher carb to raise his sugars.
I tried looking to see if I could find the carb count on the instinct raw, but was not able to find anything. I would guess it is less then 5% carbs
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277 +9.75 313

Thanks.
What other foods are Med. carb. besides friskies Mix grill, Are there any other freezed dried formulas that are Med. carb. :?: The reason I'm interested is because the freezed dried formulas look like kibbles and that way he doesn't eat it all at once like he does with the wet food. If I leave the wet food out just before bedtime he eats it all anf doesn't have any left for the rest of the night, although I do leave a lot out.
 
Re: 10/15 Michael amps 353 +6 277 +9.75 313

I have a sample bag of the Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Freeze dried Meal or Mixer turkey formula that I've left down a couple times for my civvies that China snuck a few bites of....it didn't seem to effect her numbers, but I don't want her eating it because I want her getting as much water as possible to help protect her kidneys...and that doesn't mean it wouldn't cause Michael's numbers to go higher...it's one of those ECID things.

Have you tried freezing some of his regular food and seeing if he'll leave it alone until it's thawed? Frozen food doesn't smell like real food so most cats will leave it alone, but then several hours later when it's had time to thaw, it becomes "real food" again and would give him some "fresh" food later in the cycle

A lot of people use auto-feeders too that are set to open later in the cycle so they can have food later on without having someone there to put it down for them
 
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