10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MORE R?

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Violet and Garland

Violet and Garland

Member Since 2011
This morning she seemed a little more interested in food. A small increase than yesterday, so thats a good sign. I will be syringe feeding her periodically today. All the food I left out last night was gone this morning, with 2 cats, not sure who ate what, but no way Connick ate all of it himself

There is still a little squishy area where the fluids were put in. Ketone strips should arrive today for my meter. I cant seem to catch her in the box for some reason..

Thank you everyone for holding my hand through all of this. I would be lost without all of you!

Yesterday
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

No advice, but keeping you and Garland in my thoughts. Please let me know if I can send you some fluids.... I have lots of extras and I would love to share them with you.

I hope Garland continues to show improvement today.

Kim
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

Hi guys .. I'm happy to hear garland is more interested in food today .. That's a good sign! No advice on the R, but hopefully others will be along soon .. have a great weekend guys!
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

kse said:
No advice, but keeping you and Garland in my thoughts. Please let me know if I can send you some fluids.... I have lots of extras and I would love to share them with you.

I hope Garland continues to show improvement today.

Kim
Click to expand...
Thank you!!! I may take you on that if she needs more after this batch :) You all are soooo generous!
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

I hope you have a great day with Garland and that she gets interested in food! It looks like you are in great hands with the people here- they're so wonderful!
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

I'm glad Garland is on the road to recovery. Folks here weren't just holding your hand. We were all holding our breath. Better now!
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today?

+2 258

I never gave her any R

-->> Weird, Garland is a HUGE litter box digger. Usually I have to chase her out of there bc she will spend 10 minutes covering up her "business" The last 2 days shes not trying to bury it... so weird....
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

I think next time you post you should use capital letters or something like lots of exclamation marks. I wonder if there is a cheat sheet someone can put together about whether to use R or not so you aren't waiting for anyone. We should work out a plan that involves assist feeding at specific times. How is this going? Have you tried syringing yet? You really should learn how to syringe feed her or finger feed if that works. Everyone on here should - not wait for a crisis. Not just Violet. But you know she will need even more calories than normal to avoid DKA. I wouldn't syringe feed what you would normally feed her. Something high in calories like Wellness Chicken or recovery. Recovery is 6% carbs. It really is important to get the food in, but also to manage her numbers. I can't help with managing her numbers.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Karrie and Maverick said:
I think next time you post you should use capital letters or something like lots of exclamation marks. I wonder if there is a cheat sheet someone can put together about whether to use R or not so you aren't waiting for anyone. We should work out a plan that involves assist feeding at specific times. How is this going? Have you tried syringing yet? You really should learn how to syringe feed her or finger feed if that works. Everyone on here should - not wait for a crisis. Not just Violet. But you know she will need even more calories than normal to avoid DKA. I wouldn't syringe feed what you would normally feed her. Something high in calories like Wellness Chicken or recovery. Recovery is 6% carbs. It really is important to get the food in, but also to manage her numbers. I can't help with managing her numbers.
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Thank you Karrie!!

Yea, i dont really know all the rules for R. They said to use it in the pinks, but yesterday she was at 260 and it was recommended to give it, so now im confused LOL

I havent tried the syringe yet. She ate breakfast. Im going to try to syringe feed her once i get the kids down for their nap in an hour. I will use recovery
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Good morning Violet,
Can you get a urine ketone test so we know what she is running, I know you are still out of strips for the meter, right? the R is really used to fight ketones at this point .... so we really need to know if she still has them.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Nancy and Payne said:
Good morning Violet,
Can you get a urine ketone test so we know what she is running, I know you are still out of strips for the meter, right? the R is really used to fight ketones at this point .... so we really need to know if she still has them.
Click to expand...

I tried. shes a sneaky one LOL Got past me this morning, Im hoping to try again soon
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

When I needed to get urine tests for Maverick I had to put the top on the litterbox and turn it around so he couldn't get in it for an hour or two and when I saw him investigating the box, I'd take the top off. Otherwise he was a stealth pee-er and I couldn't get the dip done.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Hi there!
Sorry I was not available this morning - had a Drs.appt.(story of my life).
Good call on skipping the R on that AMPS/201
Glad to hear she has more interest in food today - let her eat whatever, just get those calories into her.
As I mentioned before, when fighting DKA 1.5 times the normal calories required to maintain weight is the goal.
Please start tracking her eating again Violet. That way we can spot food spikes and shoot them down with R, if needed.
I wish there were a standard "formula" for R but there is not. It's something you must cautiously feel your way through, especially when kittys appetite is iffy.
Get your spot checks in today - you may need to use some R during the cycle, depending on how things go.
This is cycle 6 of 4.25u lantus. Tonight go up to 4.5u.
Violet and Garland said:
-->> Weird, Garland is a HUGE litter box digger. Usually I have to chase her out of there bc she will spend 10 minutes covering up her "business" The last 2 days shes not trying to bury it... so weird....
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that's a good opportunity to get a ketone test. If you move quick enough you can dip the strip into the pool of urine before it soaks down into the litter. I've used this method with BK.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Karrie and Maverick said:
When I needed to get urine tests for Maverick I had to put the top on the litterbox and turn it around so he couldn't get in it for an hour or two and when I saw him investigating the box, I'd take the top off. Otherwise he was a stealth pee-er and I couldn't get the dip done.
Click to expand...
I think I will try that trick. thats a good idea
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Hi there!
Sorry I was not available this morning - had a Drs.appt.(story of my life).
Good call on skipping the R on that AMPS/201
Glad to hear she has more interest in food today - let her eat whatever, just get those calories into her.
As I mentioned before, when fighting DKA 1.5 times the normal calories required to maintain weight is the goal.
Please start tracking her eating again Violet. That way we can spot food spikes and shoot them down with R, if needed.
I wish there were a standard "formula" for R but there is not. It's something you must cautiously feel your way through, especially when kittys appetite is iffy.
Get your spot checks in today - you may need to use some R during the cycle, depending on how things go.
This is cycle 6 of 4.25u lantus. Tonight go up to 4.5u.
Violet and Garland said:
-->> Weird, Garland is a HUGE litter box digger. Usually I have to chase her out of there bc she will spend 10 minutes covering up her "business" The last 2 days shes not trying to bury it... so weird....
Click to expand...
that's a good opportunity to get a ketone test. If you move quick enough you can dip the strip into the pool of urine before it soaks down into the litter. I've used this method with BK.
Click to expand...
I did try the "dip in the litterbox" thing earlier. Not sure if it worked. If it did then the color on the stick was for sure lighter than yesterday! :)

She just ate a good bit of HC FF. So that looks promising. I was about to syringe feed her, but put this out first to see....
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Violet and Garland said:
She just ate a good bit of HC FF. So that looks promising. I was about to syringe feed her, but put this out first to see....
Click to expand...
Good bit = ???
1/2 can, 3/4 can????
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Violet and Garland said:
She just ate a good bit of HC FF. So that looks promising. I was about to syringe feed her, but put this out first to see....
Click to expand...
Good bit = ???
1/2 can, 3/4 can????
Click to expand...
Umm... hard to tell...Maybe almost 1/2 a can? She has never eaten more than 1/2 a can in one sitting. shes a grazer
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258 +6 262

Today: AMPS 201 - then ate 1/4 can FF HC

+2 258

+4 ate a little less than half can FF HC

+6 262 then ate 1/4 can FF LC
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 --R Today? +2 258 +6 262

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Can you get a +9?
Click to expand...

+9 250

Ketones 6.7

---------
Meter Ranges:

0-1.6 negative ketones

1.6 through 8.0 trace to moderate ketones

above 8.0 high ketones
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 +2 258 +6 262 +9 250 Ketones 6.7

OK. how about just a touch of R - 0.1u right now.
Only if you will be able to closely monitor the rest of this cycle.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 +2 258 +6 262 +9 250 Ketones 6.7

Violet did you give fluids today? that is a moderate to high reading .... she either needs more R and fluids or you need to take her to ER. I know the R is hard to do with L but it is the R that brings down the ketones, if she goes much higher you will NOT be able to treat at home.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 +2 258 +6 262 +9 250 Ketones 6.7

Nancy and Payne said:
Violet did you give fluids today? that is a moderate to high reading .... she either needs more R and fluids or you need to take her to ER. I know the R is hard to do with L but it is the R that brings down the ketones, if she goes much higher you will NOT be able to treat at home.
Click to expand...

actually it is insulin that helps with ketones, not specifically R insulin. We use R because it is not as safe or effective to try to increase Lantus doses quickly enough to combat ketones. Just trying to clarify. ;-) Because it tends to take Lantus several cycles to build its "shed," you can't count on it to help when you need an increase in insulin in this cycle. The R is used to help us respond to the numbers/ketones we are seeing NOW while we work on getting the Lantus dose to the right place.

I agree that you are getting into hospitalization territory, so if that ketone number doesn't come down then she will need to go to the ER. Get the fluids, food, and insulin into her.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 +2 258 +6 262 +9 250 Ketones 6.7

I'm going to be off line for several hours and will probably miss Garlands PMPS.
It looks like you did not see my message about the +9 R and did not use any.
If that's the case (you did not use R at +9) and her PMPS is 250-300 Give 0.1uR.
Then get your +1 +2 +3 +4
has she eaten more since the last update?
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 .1 R at +9 250 // +10 272 Ketones

Alright ,sorry guys. its a madhouse over here. i had to get dinner on the table, baths, kid stuff etc.

I gave her the R at +9

I havent given fluid today bc i can still feel a little squish left from yesterday... not much though.. should i go ahead and do more?

She has eaten more,but not exactly sure how much. the end of the day gets really hectic here... but the kids go to bed in 30, i plan on syringe feeding her no matter what

brb
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 .1 R at +9 250 // +10 272 Ketones

I am willing to stand very corrected on this BUT if she can take up to 200 mls of squids/day and you think MOST of her fluid is gone, I'd think it might be a good idea to get 75-100 mls in her. But that's only if all but a tiny bit is gone.

I know Violet dear that it is crazy....you have life...the kids need things; they are children. I know you do not want to go the ER route and tube again. I would feel so much better if I knew you were getting alot more food in her via syringe. Because then you've got the insulin addressed, the squids, and the food.....she cannot go any higher on her ketones without being back in the hospital.

Sending you so much support and caring and strength.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 .1 R at +9 250 // +10 272 Ketones

+11 261

I dont think the .1u of R is enough.... It never really does anything

I would say today she has had 2 cans of food- total about 6oz. I am about to syringe feed her a little more and give her 100cc of fluids. Does that sound okay?
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 .1 R at +9 250 // +10 272 Ketones

I can't address the R. I'll PM Libby and see if she is still up.

If she has absorbed the 200 mls pretty much (please be sure), then go ahead and give her 100 and more food. I'm glad you are keeping track of how much she is eating. I don't know the calories in that 6 oz but Sandy said she needs 1.5xs her normal amount.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland AMPS 201 .1 R at +9 250 // +10 272 Ketones

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I can't address the R. I'll PM Libby and see if she is still up.

If she has absorbed the 200 mls pretty much (please be sure), then go ahead and give her 100 and more food. I'm glad you are keeping track of how much she is eating. I don't know the calories in that 6 oz but Sandy said she needs 1.5xs her normal amount.
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1.5X is kinda hard... she usually eats 3 cans a day. So that means i need to get 5 cans in her? wow.. that just seems like a lot...
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 More R at PM

I PMd Libby and Sandy about the R. I don't know if they are around and I just have no idea.

On the food, I'm going based on what Sandy said earlier:
As I mentioned before, when fighting DKA 1.5 times the normal calories required to maintain weight is the goal.
Click to expand...

I would figure it in terms of calories, not necessarily how many cans of food esp if they are different calories. If you know she normally needs 200 calories, then Sandy is saying she should get 300. For example, If you fed her 200 calories of FF already, maybe give her 100 cal of recovery ...because it's higher in calories so you might not have to give as much.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 More R at PM

Like Marjorie said - try and get her to eat foods higher in calories. Will she eat the recovery food or Wellness Chicken? If not you can syringe this to help boost her calories.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

PMPS 256

More R? And Im about to do my first syringe feed w recovery nailbite_smile
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

She might wear more than she eats, you'll have to find what works for the both of you. If you join Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding you will be sent an autofile that has some suggestions. Like putting Garland between you and the couch arm, or just on your lap unrestrained, or in a bathroom, or bundled up like a burrito. Some cats prefer finger feeding. Hold/guide the opposite side of her cheek/head so she can't easily turn away.

Maverick lied on my lap, against my chest sitting up like a panda bear. We bought baby bibs to keep him clean.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

I put a call out to Libby and Sandy. I know Sandy had to run out for a bit. I just don't have the experience with R to guide you. You may be able to do another 0.1u -- I'm just not sure about the timing.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Don't be nervous....she'll pick up on it.

Here is a great website on giving subqs if you haven't done it yet:

How to give Subqs

A couple quick important tips:
1. be sure you have a good drop between the bag and the kitty so the fluids will go in faster
2. make a nice tent and insert the needle bevel facing towards the ceiling....less painful that way
3. I warm the fluids in a pan but be careful to not get them too hot; I have an infrared thermometer that tells me the exact temp of the fluids in the bag. You do not want them warmer then a cat's body temp (normal is avg around 101-102).
4. Be relaxed...sing to her, talk to her...no big deal.
5. be sure to let a little bit of fluid into a glass before you start and after you finish so the line is flushed.
6. brush her, give her treats....whatever she loves when she's done; don't let her just take off running; give her extra love and then release her.

Let us know how it goes :-D I know you can do this ....you've done SO MUCH!!
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Okay, I totally hate the syringe feeding. Tube feeding is way easier. (and faster.. and cleaner) I gave her almost an ounce. She had just eaten some FF on her own right before, so I didnt want to over load her

Fluids.... :!: :o :!: HORRIBLE!!!! OMG I was just plain awful at doing it. I think I sat there for 5 minutes before I even got the guts to stick the needle in. And then I was nervous about putting too much, if I did it right, etc... I didnt give her much. I chickened out while I was doing it (im still shaking) I think I gave her 50cc

I dont think she will ever come near me again LOL
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

You probably said the same thing about giving a shot of insulin and about poking Garland in the ear!

50cc is fine. It's a good start.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Sienne and Gabby said:
You probably said the same thing about giving a shot of insulin and about poking Garland in the ear!

50cc is fine. It's a good start.
Click to expand...

Nothing like this... im scared to death of doing it again...

Did you see my question about the R?
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

You did good, fluid needles are intimidating!! Now take a deep breath and breathe ..... this will be all right, we will get through this with you. And you didn't do anything wrong. Cats that go DKA are difficult to predict what sets them off, sometimes. Do you drink wine or? now would be the time. :lol:
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

I am sure you did ABSOLUTELY fine with the syringe feeding and the fluids. The first time is the hardest. 50mls is better than no mls so do not fret. Just continue to add extra water to her food each time you feed her. You'll be surprised how much you can get in her that way, too. I always put two tsps of water into each helping of canned food for all my cats. ...but esp Gracie.

The other thing that helps with the squids is to mark your bag with a felt tip pin for the amount you want to give. That way, it is easier to see then just the markings on the bag....esp if you have purged the line and fall in between the 50ml marks.

I agree...time for wine, chocolate, hot bath...whatever helps.

clapping-hands.gif
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Thanks for the reassurances everyone. That was sooo hard. I still think I may have done it wrong. Putting it in the right place and making sure to pull it out before the pocket gets to full is what is freaking me out I think. The vet made it look so easy. I could never be a doctor LOL

Wine is poured as we speak! drinking24
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Hmmmm....don't know what you mean about pulling the needle out before the pocket gets too full.......

I just go by mls.....

Glad you cracked open that bottle.
 
Re: 10/14 Garland .1 R @ +9 250 +10 272 +11 261 PMPS 256 MOR

Violet, you are very brave! I don't like needles much either and now I'm giving Zener his shot with no problem. So you will learn to do the squids too. You are doing great!
Liz
 
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