10/13 Garland PMPS 224 (R tonight?)

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Violet and Garland

Violet and Garland

Member Since 2011
I just tested her (shot due in 15 minutes) 260--- No no R today?

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Shes definitely not eating as much. She still is eating, just not as much. She also isnt yelling for it and eating ravenously as usual. Shes usually around meowing and begging for food every hour. I cant even go near the bathroom (where her food is) without her going in there begging. But now she doesnt even seem to care. Does ketones cause a loss of appetite???? Im more scared of another attack of FHL than anything

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I posted this last night, not sure if many saw it. But I have a bag of fluids hanging in my closet that Pat brought me back in August. It was used once while she was here, the next morning Garland went to the ER, so I havent touched it since. Is it still good? The expiration date says 3/12, but since its been used....

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Her behaviour seems fine. Shes just a little quieter like she was yesterday

Yesterdays condo w test results
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 (R ?)

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
As long as you can monitor and get +2 +2 +3 +4,
go ahead and give her 0.1u R. picture f dose is here:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

I don't have experience w/squids, place "Squid ? in your header and someone will be along
I have several appointments today and will be gone for several hours. You have HC food and karo, right?
Click to expand...

Yep :) thanks
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 (R ?) (Squid ?)

The squids are still good and probably good for a while past their expiration date if the bag isn't opened. You will need the appropriate needle/harpoon for them, though.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 (R ?) (Squid ?)

Hi guys ... no squid or R advice from me .. Just lots of get well thoughts headed garlands way .. Feel better little girl .. Hang in there Violet, you can handle this .. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 (R ?) (Squid ?)

Sienne and Gabby said:
The squids are still good and probably good for a while past their expiration date if the bag isn't opened. You will need the appropriate needle/harpoon for them, though.
Click to expand...

What does "open" mean? It was used once back in august...Im assuming that means its been opened? I have the needles too.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 (R ?) (Squid ?)

Since she has moderate ketones does that mean she is DKA for the 2nd time right now? Or are we trying to prevent DKA?

+1 240

.1 R is the hardest thing to dose... Im not even sure she got anything.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 (Squid ?)

We are trying to prevent DKA .... if she were already, she would be like before and you said she is not. The reason for the SQ fluids is to dilute the ketones and the R also goes after the ketones, which is why they put DKA cats on an R drip.

Are you going to the vet to learn SQ fluids today? The problem with a kitty that has been so recent DKA, is all the stuff is there ready to go again .... IF everything lines up once again. What we are trying to do is make sure everything doesn't ..... line up like before, the ketones are the first in line. But she doesn't have an infection, she is still eating and we are starting to treat ..... don't worry we are hopefully ahead of the game this time.

Sending healing thoughts ...... Nancy
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

+2 133

Heading to the vet for a SQ lesson in 20

She hasnt eaten anything since breakfast at 6am.... :( (its 1030now)
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

Great +2 number!!! Good luck on the squid lesson!
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

Thinking of you Violet and Garland......I am in NC, but I have extra fluids and needles. I could overnight them to you if you would like to have some in your supply closet. I would be more than happy to share them with you.

Please let me know.

Kim
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

I posted yesterday that she can get a script from her vet for LRS (or Normosol but we use LRS) and order them through a local pharmacy. I use Walgreens because they were the cheapest if I got a Walgreen's card for $20. A case of 12-1000 ml LRS (I use BBraun DEHP free, 1000 ml bags) costs me $22 and they get it the next day. I don't know if they can sell less than a case or not but a case is cheaper than what her vet wants to charge for one.

Hopefully Violet asked the vet about using the bag she has. I'm not sure if I would use a bag that has been spiked (the line attached to it) since August. I'm usually very careful about protecting my bags and lines to be sure there is no chance of any bacteria.

I have no idea if this is possible but if Garland isn't eating her regular amount....could Violet syringe feed her the mixture she tube fed her with before? Some a/d and clinicare or whatever she was using just to be sure to keep the calories in her while she's getting fluids and R?

Violet: if you get home and have any other questions about using the subq fluids....how to do anything, please let me know. I've been doing them on two cats for 1-1/2 years....I can help.

Sending Garland healing vines. Come on girl.....!!
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

Food is critical. At this point, if HC food is needed to entice Garland to eat, that's fine. Using R can offset feeding HC. Ditto on what Pam said -- fluids help to dilute and flush the ketones out.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133

Sienne and Gabby said:
Food is critical.
Click to expand...
Absolutely! Syringe feed Garland if you have to. If that doesn't work well I'd give real consideration to having the feeding tube put back in.

Has she been tested for ketones since the vet tested the day before yesterday?

Have squids been given yet?

If she's still throwing ketones, we need to get more insulin in her but can't without being able to get food into her to control any drops that are too low... even if it means feeding HC and using karo.

Food, insulin, and squids have become a number one priority.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133 +4 230 +5

Sorry its been busy since I got held up at the vet. I have to pick up my 3 year old in 10 minutes. wanted to do a really quick update

They gave her 200cc of fluids and showed me how. I asked if I should split it up, if 200cc was a lot each time. They basically looked at me like I was stupid. So 200cc every other day is all they kept saying. So I guess thats what I will do. It seems easy enough.... nailbite_smile They gave me all the supplies i needed for and 1 liter bag


She isnt eating much. I think today shes only had a few ounces. I can try the HC stuff like yall suggested, but wont it make her already high numbers higher? Syringe feeding-- how do you do that?? How much, how often...etc... ??

Last ketone check was last night with a urine strip. The color was still the "moderate" one on the range. Im going to assume they are still there bc we just got the fluids a couple hours ago. Ketone meter strips are on the way. Should be here tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for all the support. I would be lost without you!! ((hugs))
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133 +4 230 +5

Please keep in mind that not only do fluids flush ketones, they can drop BG numbers, too. Please test when you get back home. Once the vet stress ears off and the fluids are absorbed, Garland's numbers could come down. You need to learn how she responds.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +2 133 +4 230 +5

Violet:

I have syringes I can send you or you can probably use the ones you tube fed with. The ones I have are the same TYPE that I used to tube feed one of my GA kitties with. You want to try and get the same number of calories in her that you were getting before I would think. If you do not still have those syringes...pm me your address and I'll send some to you today....I have about 50 brand new and am not using them right now.

If using a/d, I just put a few tsps in a bowl, add liquid (clinicare or warm water), and use a whisk to get it smooth.....I wouldn't get it runny....you want her to be able to handle it and not have a bunch of really runny food to choke on. Instead of sucking the food up into the syringe, I usually pour it into the top of the syringe or use a small spatula if the consistency is a little thick. You want to then place the tip of the syringe into her mouth perpendicular to her tongue....do not shoot the food straight down her throat...she will aspirate. Aim it to the roof of her mouth and just give her a small amount at a time....1 ml or less..let her deal with it.

Here is a great video on how to assist feed with a syringe:
[youtube]U6o17wH6ujk[/youtube]

As far as the fluids go, I'm sorry, but IMHO she is better off getting them every day if she will let you. I still think Jill's idea was a great one....200 mls today and 50-100 mls each day after until she is better. I can also send you some better needles....the vets usually use 18g harpoons. I use ultra thin wall (UTW) 21g Terumos....they are wonderful. Just let me know. As a tip....I keep the needles in the freezer...for some reason, if they are cold, they cause less sting when you put them in kitty.

Please let us know what you need....how we can help.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +4 230 +5 246 +8

Thanks Marjorie for the video. Wow, syringe feeding looks more complicated than the tube LOL Let me see what kind of needles I have. I have 2 kinds. Thanks for the freezer tip too!! You all are so helpful!! Thank you!!

So I should syringe feed her the recovery? or use the FF? Or should I start with seeing if she will eat the HC food on her own? Which step is first? She doesnt seem to be hungry at all. :cry:

=----

So since she got the 200ml today, how much do I give tomorrow? 100?

+8 214
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +4 230 +5 246 +8

it's not about feeding LC or HC. the idea is to get her to eat... whatever she'll eat. she has to eat.
the amount of insulin can be adjusted accordingly.
make sense?

what are her favorites? i'd go to those flavors first.

remember all the conversation about things to use to get her to eat that we had before? to name a few... fortiflora, crumbled freeze-dried chicken treats, ground dry food, rotisserie chicken, deli ham, KFC chicken, etc. these are things you can use get her to eat.

or you could try making tiny "meatballs" with her food and use your finger to place them on the roof of her mouth.

if you're not successful, try syringe feeding like in the video.


fluids...
you'll want to make sure the fluids she was given today have absorbed completely before you administer more. if she's still throwing ketones and the fluids she was given today have absorbed I would probably go with 100ml squids tomorrow.


it'll be helpful if you continue recording the amounts she's eaten and when on your spreadsheet.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +4 230 +5 246 +8

Syringe Feed and assist feed the recovery its higher in calories. You can use R to bring the numbers down. Regarding the other foods - you can do what you need to in order to tempt her to eat on her own.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today +1 240 +4 230 +5 246 +8

Violet:
The best thing is for her to eat on her own with the suggestions given. If she won't OR if she isn't eating her normal amount of calories, then I would assist feed to ensure she gets the normal calories and maybe a little more.

I didn't remember if you were using the Recovery or a/d. You don't want to syringe feed her regular food as Karrie said for two reasons.

1. It's hard to get all the lumps out and get it through the syringe. The Recovery and a/d are much easier to get through the syringe. I don't even have to use a blender...I just use a small whisk.

2. You don't want her to develop a food aversion to her regular food.

Hmmmm...I've tube fed and syringe fed and I think it's what you get used to. You are used to tube feeding but the syringe feeding is easy once Garland gets the hang of it.

Great point Jill made that I should have...DUH.....she does have to absorb all her fluids before you give her more. She may carry them around in what looks like a little bag behind one front leg. Just make sure she doesn't feel "squishy" any where before you give more fluids. Alternatively, if you know what she weighed before fluids today, you can weigh her before you give her anymore. Generally, if they still have fluids on board, they'll weigh more. It doesn't hurt to use a few different methods combined (looking, feeling, weighing) to ensure the fluids are absorbed.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today PMPS 224 (R tonight??)

Finally got the kids in bed. whew

THANK YOU!! I still cant get over how much you all know about this stuff!! Amazing!!

Okay #1-->> Her PMPS is 224. R tonight?

#2- I will wait to make sure all the fluids she got today are absorbed before giving her any more

#3- FOOD- She has barely eaten anything all day. After I saw yall said I could give her other foods, I set out dry, connicks HC FF, her LC FF and some deli meat. (i was trying to see which one she would go for) She ate the deli meat, licked all the gravy (and a couple bites) of the HC, licked the "juice" off the plate of her LC, and had like 1 bite of dry.

I want to try the "rolling into a ball" method mentioned in an above post later on if shes still not eating. Would I use her FF or recovery? I dont want her to get food aversion to the LC FF

#4- her behavior is still great. She was snoozing on my lap purring away, she played with my hand when i moved it around her. She is sleeping a bit more and not "meowing" as much, but she is meowing still.
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today PMPS 224 (R tonight??)

just letting you know we're thinking of you & garland...
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today PMPS 224 (R tonight??)

Violet and Garland said:
Okay #1-->> Her PMPS is 224. R tonight?
Click to expand...
Violet and Garland said:
#3- FOOD- She has barely eaten anything all day. After I saw yall said I could give her other foods, I set out dry, connicks HC FF, her LC FF and some deli meat. (i was trying to see which one she would go for) She ate the deli meat, licked all the gravy (and a couple bites) of the HC, licked the "juice" off the plate of her LC, and had like 1 bite of dry.
Click to expand...

Under these circumstances - 224 PS and not eating much, I'd say skip the R tonight
 
Re: 10/13 Garland AMPS 260 R today PMPS 224 (R tonight??)

Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Violet and Garland said:
Okay #1-->> Her PMPS is 224. R tonight?
Click to expand...
Violet and Garland said:
#3- FOOD- She has barely eaten anything all day. After I saw yall said I could give her other foods, I set out dry, connicks HC FF, her LC FF and some deli meat. (i was trying to see which one she would go for) She ate the deli meat, licked all the gravy (and a couple bites) of the HC, licked the "juice" off the plate of her LC, and had like 1 bite of dry.
Click to expand...

Under these circumstances - 224 PS and not eating much, I'd say skip the R tonight
Click to expand...

Okay, you just caught me. LOL I was just about to do it.
 
Just wanted to stop in and wish you luck. Know that we are thinking of you. You don't know us, as Muffin went OTJ before you arrived here, but I wanted to let you know that I had quite a battle trying to get Muffin to eat canned food. I had to syringe feed her, and although it was a bit stressful the first couple of times, within a couple of days she was licking it out of the syringe herself. So it is possible that they will get the hang of it and adjust quite quickly. I've been following your story, and you're doing a great job - keep it up! Garland is lucky to have you to watch over her.
 
Violet:

I know you have so incredibly much on your plate. But I wouldn't let her go with just a little to eat. If she isn't eating her normal amount, then you'll have to get her to one way or the other. Either keep offering her lots of different foods and make sure she gets her normal calories or....syringe feed. ;-) ;-) Don't forget also that she might like to try some baby food without anything in it (no onions, garlic, cornstarch, etc.). I use the Beechnut.

Anne is right...they get the hang of it pretty fast....and mine all do the same..practically suck it out of the syringe.

Sending you lots of prayers.
 
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